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Mongol influence over pashtuns

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  • Mongol influence over pashtuns

    this is an interesting piece of hazara propaganda. it has a few theories that may hold weight.

    Mongol Influences Over Pashtuns

    It is no secret that the Hazaras of Afghanistan have been belittled and ridiculed for many reasons, especially by the Pashtuns. The Pashtuns have shamelessly mocked Hazaras for being descendants of the Mongols, something that no one can control. For years they have called Hazaras "foreigners," "invaders," etc. There really is no way to pinpoint just where the origins of the Hazaras started and there have been many speculations but one thing is clear—the Hazaras have longer, stronger, and more solid ties to the region than the Pashtuns have. For years, however, the Pashtuns have held the Mongols' past as a shameful pall over the Hazaras. Now, there is major irony here once this matter is deeply delved into. The Hazaras might share physical features but it isn't anything significant because the Uzbeks, Turkmen, and other people like the Chinese, Vietnamese, Philippines, and Japanese have the same features. Whereas the Hazaras might share their physical features with the Mongols at the most, it is the Pashtuns who actually have more in common with the Mongols than any other ethnicity—in fact, they actually owe many of their terms and parts of their culture to the Mongols.

    The information for this article was provided by the book The Secret History of the Mongols by Paul Kahn. I was very fascinated by this book because it was to be an assembly of the ruling families during the time of the Mongols and it was made only for the royal families to read and possess. Their history and what they left behind is an interesting one. The Mongols ruled over the region for nearly a century. And then their Persianized descendants continued to rule for hundreds of years later—they were the Uzbeks and other descendants that had converted to Islam and had adopted the nature and culture of the region they were in. They were known as looters, destroyers, barbarians—ironically the very same words have been used to describe the Pashtuns, signaling another thing they have in common. The Pashtuns do not hesitate to throw this in the face of the Hazaras when in fact they should probably thank the Mongols because if it wasn't for them, they would be missing half their tribes and culture. Pashtuns are known for their stubbornness and pride. What they have pride over is questionable. They are not as original or established as they like to believe they are. They have many borrowed terms and words from the Mongols.

    One of the major words borrowed by the Pashtuns from the Mongols is the word "Khan." Khan is a Mongolian title that originally meant commander, leader or ruler. Khan also means a leader of a tribe now, giving the word connotations of honor. Though the title is very common all over Central Asia, it is the Pashtuns who use it more than anyone else. They even use it twice in their names i.e. Khan Abdul Ghafar Khan. If it weren't for this title, the Pashtuns wouldn't know how to label their own leaders. And there are plenty of other terms and words.

    Many of the Pashtun tribes are derived from Mongolian names and terms. "Zadran" and "Zazai" are Pashtun tribes in Paktia, Paktika, and Khost. Their roots are from "Jadarin" and "Jaji" two Mongolian terms. "Zadran" and "Zazai" are also known by non Pashtuns in Afghanistan as "Jadran" and "Jaji". Jadarin is the name of the clan that Changiz Khan was from. Jaji was the name of Changiz's grandfather and he was the leader of the Jadarin clan. In the Mogolian language "Jaji" means "foreigner" so the Zazai's are basically calling themselves foreigners. "Khil" means "clan" in the Mongolian language, a term very much familiar with the Pashtuns. "Orya" is the name of one of Changiz's grandson and "Oryakhil" is a name of a Pashtun tribe. "Zay" means "son" in the Mongolian language. The very-similar Pashto word "Zoy" also means "son." The Pashto words "Zai" and "Khil" signifies groups in Pashto and they were obviously taken by the Mongolian words mentioned earlier—"khil" and "zay." A few other words that are copied or "borrowed" are the Mongolian words "Wolos" which means "people," "Jerga" which means "council," and "Shahghalay" which means "mister." Changiz's first wife, Borte Ujin, came from the Karot tribe and "Kharot" is the name of a Pashto tribe. This is obviously not a mistake or a coincidence. The Pashtuns basically "borrowed" or stole these name and applied them to themselves, illustrated just how obsessed they were with the Mongols.

    Karo was the title of a spiritual man in the clan of Changiz Khan's first wife. And now, Karokhil is the name of a Pashto tribe. Also, another major source of pride for Pashtuns is the Mangal tribe from Paktia, Khost, and Paktika. I have seen many Pashtuns proudly proclaim themselves as mighty and proud Mangals. Interestingly enough the Mongols called themselves "Mangals." "Mongol" itself is an English word and "Mangal" is the Mongolian term just like "Mughul" is the Farsi word for Mongols. For example, Americans call the people of Germany as "Germans" but the Germans call themselves "Deutsch." There is also an island in Mongolia called Talkun which has two rivers that run through it. The names of the rivers are Selenge and Orgon. Changiz Khan's clan was based right next to the Orgon River. Now, in Paktika, there is a place called Urgun.

    These were just some of the major terms and names that the Pashtuns took from the Mongols. I know that not a lot—if hardly anyone—is aware of the origins of some of the Pashto names and terms but they were obviously taken from the Mongols, a group of people that the Pashtuns have spent years making fun of. This exemplifies just how little claim the Pashtuns have over their own culture and names—what makes them think they can have any legitimate claim over anything else like the land? At the most, the Hazaras and others with similar features just share an outward appearance of the Mongols which is shared by probably one-third of the world. The Pashtuns' resemblance to the Mongols goes deeper than just features. They have mentally and historically copied the Mongols in acts of savagery and barbarisms. Whereas the Mongols committed horrific acts in the 13th Century, the Pashtuns have and are committing horrific act to the present day in the form of Abdali, Abdul Rahman , the Taliban, and political oppression. Another thing the 13th Century Mongols and the present-day Pashtuns have in common is the fact that they both had tribal systems. The 13th Century Mongols were all different tribes which Changiz Khan united them all and became the Khan over them. Modern-day Mongolia is no longer tribal but the Pashtuns still hold unto their tribal system to this day—just like Changiz Khan's people. For more on the Pashtun tribal system please refer to the article titled "Baba-ocracy."

  • #2
    why do you post hazara propaganda?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by graveyardofempires View Post
      why do you post hazara propaganda?
      there are interesting theories, such as the origin of certain names and places.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Zmarai View Post
        there are interesting theories, such as the origin of certain names and places.
        dont you know we already have enough propagandists who make up all types of theories such as ISI controlling even space aliens.

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        • #5
          Convergence of languages is a normal process. I wouldn't deny something only because it was said by an enemy. Some words in Pashto come from Hindi language
          (بجه، ماتول) so it is possible that certain words can come from Mongolian/old Mongolian language. Pashto as a language, has never been as isolated as Pashtun genes.
          دلته دم او قدم دواړه په حساب دي - پل په لاره غلط مه ږده بې حسابه

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          • #6
            sorry yasmeenah you are wrong.
            it is the other way around.

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            • #7
              language gets changed a lot because of the necessity, for trading. it doesn't mean a lot, as far as influence on a culture.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by graveyardofempires View Post
                sorry yasmeenah you are wrong.
                it is the other way around.
                So tell me what is the other way around.
                دلته دم او قدم دواړه په حساب دي - پل په لاره غلط مه ږده بې حسابه

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Yasmeenaah View Post
                  So tell me what is the other way around.
                  hindus got influenced by Afghans and muslim in general and by persian pashto and arabic.
                  look at hindu culture they too wear headscarves and so do sikhs.
                  so those words you mentioned are either pashto farsi or arabic and not hindu.
                  matter of fact hindus also were influenced by pashtuns cuz they also adopted the jirga system which they call panchayth.
                  but they did corrupt it because of their cast system.

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                  • #10
                    Im talking about words coming from Sanskrit. I think Sanskrit is a bit older than Pashto. Plus, I'm sorry, I trust more linguists, biosociolinguists.

                    Another thing - I was talking about languages convergence. Not about other aspects of culture. And sometimes it is not the same.

                    Last one - it's normal that some Pashtun customs were incorporated by other cultures... again, it's convergention.
                    دلته دم او قدم دواړه په حساب دي - پل په لاره غلط مه ږده بې حسابه

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Yasmeenaah View Post
                      Im talking about words coming from Sanskrit. I think Sanskrit is a bit older than Pashto. Plus, I'm sorry, I trust more linguists, biosociolinguists.

                      Another thing - I was talking about languages convergence. Not about other aspects of culture. And sometimes it is not the same.

                      Last one - it's normal that some Pashtun customs were incorporated by other cultures... again, it's convergention.
                      sorry to say but you tend to believe what is close to you and more famouse theory.
                      how can you claim sanskrit is older than pashto?
                      sorry i dont relt on linguists or bio.....

                      i just told you about the two words.

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                      • #12
                        My attitude or my likes/dislikes have nothing to do. Let's say I trust science.

                        I have impression that your knowledge is a bit narrow. Or you pick only facts which are convenient to you, or to your theory, that all cultural or linguistic phenomenons in the Region comes from Pashtuns or from Pashto language.
                        As long as you present it as your own view, it's ok.

                        The truth is that we are talking about facts from distant history, none of us witnessed them, including scientists, and we can only guess how it really was.
                        دلته دم او قدم دواړه په حساب دي - پل په لاره غلط مه ږده بې حسابه

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                        • #13
                          The article/essay posted was written by an old hate-mongering Tajik. He even has videos on youtube where he runs his mouth off and gives worthless commentary on events in Afghanistan. Its really sad to see someone so deluded and filled with hate.

                          First, The title Khan was given to Pashtuns during the Muslim Mongol "Ilkhanate" in Persia; those who were in the employ of the dynasty in Iran. It caught on afterwards. It was never used by Pashtuns prior to that.

                          Second, many languages share similar words and vocabulary. That alone would make his argument moot. For all you know Zai and Khel could be Avestan (predecessor to Pashto) terms and may have made its way into the Turko-Mongol vocabulary via the Pamir.

                          Having said that, the "translations" he's given are totally incorrect. They don't exist in either Mongolian or Turkish. And the Mongols called themselves Mongols! Not "Mangal". In Pashto Mongols are called "Mungol" or "Mungolyan". Ditto for the "Jaji". Also, "Mughul" was/is a derogatory term used by the Persians to describe Mongols; similar to "Pathan" for Pashtuns/Pakhtuns.

                          Finally, Genghis's clan was called Borjugin, and not "Jadarin". I have no idea where he came up with that one. Anyone with a wold history book could tell you that.

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                          • #14
                            Khan is a Turkic title which the Mongols adopted.

                            I can't see Pashtuns being that influenced by Mongols, but the Pashtuns are for sure Influenced by Pakistanis/Indic and Arabian influences.

                            The essence of real Pashtun values and heritage has been wiped off the pages of history by invaders.

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                            • #15
                              ^^^
                              It is your failed ideology of communism that is foreign to pashtun culture.

                              Mongols were more influenced by Muslims than the other way around. It is said that the Mongols set out to conquer the land namely central asia, but it was the land that conquerd them, meaning that they had converted to Islam which was the religion of the land.

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