afghan pashtun dna to be posted soon

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Do you have any recent sources? That entry, though concise, was written in 1999.

No unfortunately not at hand, but I think the citations could give you some insights.

[evilbunny]

I have not seen any material that contradicted the origin of Arabic in or around Iraq. Mesopotamia and the Levant, as described earlier, are the linguistic hotbeds for the Semitic languages. Both you and al-arab are arguing against different models for the formation of Proto-Arabic.

Whilst Semites in a strict sense are Western Asians, who speak a Afro-Asiatic language. Semites aren't peas in a pod and they don't all have common origins. The Arabs aren't from Mesopotamia or Syria, let alone Turkey. Arabic is from Arabia, not Mesopotamia.

[DMXX]

Whilst Semites in a strict sense are Western Asians, who speak a Afro-Asiatic language. Semites aren't peas in a pod and they don't all have common origins. The Arabs aren't from Mesopotamia or Syria, let alone Turkey. Arabic is from Arabia, not Mesopotamia.

It seems like erroneously conflating Proto-Semitic with Proto-Arabic is a common occurrence in this thread recently.

I have not made the case for Arabic originating in Iraq, but claim no alternatives as my knowledge on this topic is far more restricted than it is with Indo-European.

I will repeat once more before taking a leave of this cyclical conversation; I have addressed al-arab's questions regarding the erroneous association of Haplogroup J with Semitic speakers and stated the scientific consensus regarding the origins of both Proto-Semitic and Haplogroup J somewhere around the northern Middle-East, albeit at very different points in time.

I have found an interesting resource which does suggest Arabic-speaking settlers were relative newcomers to central and north Arabia, ultimately originating in the region between Tihama and the Hejaz, where Classical Arabic and several dialects were spoken;

http://eprints.soas.ac.uk/5814/1/Shah.pdf

[RevolutionThroughReason]

http://eprints.soas.ac.uk/5814/1/Shah.pdf[/url]

Don't let Al-Arab see that, he might have a nervous breakdown.

[evilbunny]

Bani Israel and Pashtuns. That has to be the biggest piece of historical BS ever written.

How do you know? Maybe their are Pashtuns, who are descended from nomadic Jews. However I have my doubts.

[roadrunner]

Pashtuns aren't descended from nomadic Jews. It's been proven. What a joke.

[titus1049]

At present, in my opinion, I consider the J1* and Southwest Asian components found across the Near-East and Caucasus to be inextricably linked and simply an indication that the Southwest Asian component's ultimate origins are further north of Arabia (i.e. reaching a maximum towards the south).

For the sake of simplicity, consider it inheritance from the "parent" population that eventually led onto J1c3-carrying pastoral nomads who spoke Proto-Semitic.

To calibrate (or even validate!) this hypothesis, one would need to confidently ascertain the ages of J1-M267, J1c-L136, J1c3-P58 and finally J1c3d-L147. That may give an indication of which specific downstream SNP should be associated with the first Proto-Semitic speakers.

That makes sense. And I believe you said the distribution of J1*, J1a and J1b favors a northern origin right? Do you think J1* originated in the caucasus? And do you think Indo-Iranians assimilated some people from the Caucasus explaining Ydna G's(i guess g1, g2a and g2c are found-different histories?) presence in South-Central Asia or think they are connected to the Neolithic. The Kalash have a high proportion of G for example.

And different subclades seem to have different origins entirely-G1, G2a3b1, and g2c (kind of like J2a vs J2b-of which we know nothing about its presence in South-Central Asia, even worse for R1b-m73).

[Karachi]

Pashtuns aren't descended from nomadic Jews. It's been proven. What a joke.

So far. But I dont think every tribe has been tested, so we can never be sure until every tribe has been tested, one thing is clear that there were Jews in the KP and Afghanistan area as far as 2300 years ago. the Hebrew stone tablets of Kandahar and Mardan prove this

[Wahe Guru]

Pashtuns aren't descended from nomadic Jews. It's been proven. What a joke.

Pashtuns aren't descended from nomadic Jews. It's been proven. - where? when? by whom? How about giving some links or pasting part of a study instead of just saying its been proven?

[Wahe Guru]

So far. But I dont think every tribe has been tested, so we can never be sure until every tribe has been tested, one thing is clear that there were Jews in the KP and Afghanistan area as far as 2300 years ago. the Hebrew stone tablets of Kandahar and Mardan prove this

Jews might have been in KP & Afghanistan 2300 years ago (or even earlier) but there is so far nothing to prove that large numbers of Pashtuns are descended from ancient Jews. Those Jews who were present in ancient times in the area might have settled at the time of the ancient Persian empire and were probably relatively small in number and married within their group and therefore not made a significant contribution to Pashtun descent.

The Hebrew stone tablets could have got there in various ways since there is nothing to indicate that these tablets were placed there by a Jewish tribe(s). I dont think these tablets are found in many places?

Like you said more tests could shed further light - but all evidence right now appears to indicate otherwise for strong Jewish links.

What is probably much more likely is that many Pashtun tribes originally did not speak Pashto but spoke other Indo-Aryan(Dardic?)/Nuristani (ie non Iranic) languages and there is some evidence for that happening even today.

[Wahe Guru]

What are you talking about Al-Turki (Scimitar)?

There are plenty of genetic studies about Iraqi Arabs and as I told you a recent study actually confirms that Saudis and Iraqi Arabs have more or less the same share of J Haplogroup admixture. This also makes sense since Iraqi Arabs and Saudis share the SAME tribal associations and Arab tribes!

.................

I know what I would rather believe in.

With respect Mr Al-Arab, what you are writing might well all be correct (I dont have time to read all these long postings here in this thread by different members), but glancing thru it all quickly, it seems that all Mr RevolutionThroughReason is saying is that Arabic language originated in Yemen somewhere - and that is what the links posted by him and DMXX appear to confirm. Arabic language arising in Yemen does not mean (all) Arab people originated in Yemen...most of them were probably in Arabia before Arabic language existed. It is stated in one of the links that Arabic arose as a language in the 4 century so not very old.

Copied from one of the documents:
"Once, the Arabian Peninsula was thought to have been the "cradle" of proto-Semitic, but nowadays many scholars advocate the view that it originated somewhere in East Africa, probably in the area of Somalia/Ethiopia. Interestingly, both these areas are now dominated linguistically by the two youngest members of the Semitic language family: Arabic and Amharic, both of which emerged in the mid-fourth century C.E."

[SUMMERLOVE]

Karachi why you so obsessed with Afghans. Shouldn't you be more interested in Karachi DNA and what nOt?!!

[Old School Killiwal]

Karachi why you so obsessed with Afghans. Shouldn't you be more interested in Karachi DNA and what nOt?!!

So I heard from someone on AF that you were a Punjabi...

[evilbunny]

So now the question. Do you want to disregard the genetic EVIDENCE, all the other historical facts (the first Arabic scripture Kufic originated in Iraq, the word Arab was first used by Assyrians in Assyria 2800 years ago to describe people who where not Assyrians that lived next to them, that the first Semetic langauge and people were Akkadians who lived in Mesopotamia, Arabic historians and Arab oral traditions, cultures from ANCIENT Arabs founded 2500-3000 years ago in Iraq (Hatra etc.)

OR some outdated source from 1999 that claims Arabs originated from the Horn of Africa (I can quote the exact sentence from the report Scimitar used) while DMXX already said that in terms of genetics this is impossible since Semetic people moved from Northern Mesopotamia (and the region close to that) down to the South NOT the other way around.

Where are your sources, supporting these claims? Just because Arabs are Semites doesn't means that that they emerged, as a peoples in Mesopotamia. The Assyrians aren't Arabs and the Arabs only expanded their regional influence to the north with the advent of Islam.

The fertile crescent starts in Transcaucasia and Northern Mesopotamia. However it's only towards the south that one finds the ancient Semitic civilizations and the north was far more Western Asia.

[SUMMERLOVE]

So I heard from someone on AF that you were a Punjabi...

Yh I heard that too.

I thought I was Bengali.