Future Map of Loy Afghanistan(pukhtunistan)

[Toramana]

Ironically, the people of southern districts of khyber Pakhtunkhwa have been convinced by Punjabis that in the case of Azad Pashtunistan the real political power will always be in the hands of the political elites of of Peshawar valley. This same thing is propagated here by Toramana. lol

Yes, that is questionable if not aimed at creating misunderstanding...I will be happy if Pashtuns could achieve a certain form of unity under any Pashtun from Queta, Kandahar, Laghman, etc...I don't care...Naturally, someone from Kandahar should be the main leader...and I will love that....

[Alchemist]

Thanks a lot ... And I am indebted to you for showering these praises on my people....However, I want to have a realistic and objective view of myself as well as my people...We are as humans as others ...We have certain values that we uphold at the individual level....That doesn't mean we have unlimited patience for others....As long as in our comfort zone we can be tolerable to others...Trespassing that, we can be equally hostile...

I mean an objective and realistic view would help us...Don't make me into a devil...Neither make me into an angel...

What is this "we" thing going on here? Who is "We"? Do you mean the royal "we" for yourself? Or you mean you speak for everyone?

You said each factor weights differently.

It is obvious that you are an Islamophobe, plus you hate arabs (including the prophet of islam (pbuh)), so does all other pashtuns? So far you are the only pashtun I've met who is actually a non muslim. Believe it or not. It is more likely that the taliban would get hostile towards you more than me if they knew what you and me represented and what you and me advocate for.

Maybe you should just speak for your self for now. Don't speak for farsiwan afghans. And don't speak for pashtuns, because 99% of pashtuns are muslims and their vision and their lifestyle doesn't match yours. What do you want anyway toromana? I know you don't want to be identified as Pakistani, but at the same time you don't want to be identified Afghan either. You want what? Pashtunistan? Is that realistic? Do you also want to carve a niche for yourself out of Afghanistan and Pakistan? A secular Pashtunistan? What is your vision anyway? Speak for your self for a change.

[Manzareh]

Look just leave it, everybody is arguing and being bitchy, take a step back chill out man everybody say athubillah (in Tormanas place take a bud out the fridge lol joke!)..seriously though this isnt a war zone, were all just a bunch of dudes on a forum, whats the point always taking our emotions out to make other pashtuns/people get upset at the other side of the world, if anything, have a one to one messaging session, at least that way there wont be this "i wanna win a 1up on him" or "scoring points by giving my reply back in such a cunning way" attitude. just look back at what youve written yourself like i have and realise theres no need for this..if you cant be civil then keep it to yourself. imagine this is the LARGEST pashtun forum on the internet yet we only have about 15 participants here, and thats from all over the world and STILL dont think twice about arguing.

[Toramana]

What is this "we" thing going on here? Who is "We"? Do you mean the royal "we" for yourself? Or you mean you speak for everyone?

You said each factor weights differently.

It is obvious that you are an Islamophobe, plus you hate arabs (including the prophet of islam (pbuh)), so does all other pashtuns? So far you are the only pashtun I've met who is actually a non muslim. Believe it or not. It is more likely that the taliban would get hostile towards you more than me if they knew what you and me represented and what you and me advocate for.

Maybe you should just speak for your self for now. Don't speak for farsiwan afghans. And don't speak for pashtuns, because 99% of pashtuns are muslims and their vision and their lifestyle doesn't match yours. What do you want anyway toromana? I know you don't want to be identified as Pakistani, but at the same time you don't want to be identified Afghan either. You want what? Pashtunistan? Is that realistic? Do you also want to carve a niche for yourself out of Afghanistan and Pakistan? A secular Pashtunistan? What is your vision anyway? Speak for your self for a change.

Hi Al-Chemist brother, I am a Sufi Muslim...Do you know about Sufism?...Actually, I have gotten tired of others defining us as either brave, hospitable, loyal, etc. (the romantic view) or plainly sinister and evil (the draconian view)...Just like when US wanted our land and prowess for its geopolitics, we were brave but now we are savages and barbariians...

Seldom do I see the middle view....

Anyhow, I am being courteous and wouldn't exclude anyone...You are like a brother...but you know as a people/nation we also have to be conscious about our interests and future...

[fzpz]

Realistically, the only thing close to happening is The Islamic Emirate of (fill in the blank). Probably both Afghanistan and Pakistan. While nationalists on the internet (pakis, afghans, pashtuns, tajiks) keep dreaming of impossibilities, the only ones doing something in reality are the ones fighting for Islamic Emirates.

[Toramana]

Realistically, the only thing close to happening is The Islamic Emirate of (fill in the blank). Probably both Afghanistan and Pakistan. While nationalists on the internet (pakis, afghans, pashtuns, tajiks) keep dreaming of impossibilities, the only ones doing something in reality are the ones fighting for Islamic Emirates.

Bya khpal khair ghwara bacha (then apna khair manaw thusi...)...

[Alchemist]

Hi Al-Chemist brother, I am a Sufi Muslim...Do you know about Sufism?...Actually, I have gotten tired of others defining us as either brave, hospitable, loyal, etc. (the romantic view) or plainly sinister and evil (the draconian view)...Just like when US wanted our land and prowess for its geopolitics, we were brave but now we are savages and barbariians...

Seldom do I see the middle view....

Anyhow, I am being courteous and wouldn't exclude anyone...You are like a brother...but you know as a people/nation we also have to be conscious about our interests and future...

I know of sufism but sufis pray five times a day and do zikr and read the Quran.

It doesn't make sense for you to call your self a "Muslim Sufi" just because you visit some hujras and recite Omar khayam. But then come here and tell everyone "Stop speaking arabic" even though our namaz is in arabic. How does that make sense?

Don't get sly with me akaa

[ScimitarXEdge]

Hi Al-Chemist brother, I am a Sufi Muslim...Do you know about Sufism?...

hahahhahaha You are too Materialistic and focused on superficial shallow minded ideas of Material Prestige to be a Sufi; this is actually the trend that Pampered White Westerners who are bored with their indulgent lifestyle use when they look for some New Age Spirituality to fill their boredom with. It's like a Role Playing game of personal Entertainment than Spiritual Quest for realizing Truth (the true Sufism). They did the same thing with Indian Spirituality in the 70's. Then they did it with Rumi and Hafez and the Persian poets. Except they took the "wine" verses literally when really they were metaphors; and ironically they go around shouting that the verses of the Qur'an about moral admonition and permissbility and forbiddance are "metaphors". Most of the real Die-Hard Sufis don't care about trying to make a nation "modernized" for them these are worldly concepts, the Die-Hard sufis live simple lives where they dwell in nature and meditate on the Divine Reality and forget the material/worldly.

You're not a Sufi, the real Sufis were strict Muslims; the only difference between the Real Sufi and the rigid Blind Faith Mullah; is that the Sufi understood the spiirtual purpose and reality of the Law they're following and knew it's Ultimate Truth. The Blind Faith Mullah did not and hence was merely doing it to appear pious.

Both sides of my family are connected to Sufi traditions; one Qadiri and the other Ba'Alawi.

Honestly if you read the works of great Sufis like Shaikh Abdul Qadir Jilani; it bears very little resemblance to anything you promote. Strange isn't it?

you're just hopping on the trend of the day, Exploiting the Sufi Spiritual Persona as a justification for your very UN-Sufi Lives.

[ScimitarXEdge]

I know of sufism but sufis pray five times a day and do zikr and read the Quran.

It doesn't make sense for you to call your self a "Muslim Sufi" just because you visit some hujras and recite Omar khayam. But then come here and tell everyone "Stop speaking arabic" even though our namaz is in arabic. How does that make sense?

Don't get sly with me akaa

he's not a Sufi Muslim, he's just using sufism as a scapegoat for his short comings. In fact Sufis themselves don't refer to themselves as "Sufi Muslims" as if it's a sect. They refer themselves as Muslims who practice the science of tasawwuf.

[Toramana]

hahahhahaha You are too Materialistic and focused on superficial shallow minded ideas of Material Prestige to be a Sufi; this is actually the trend that Pampered White Westerners who are bored with their indulgent lifestyle use when they look for some New Age Spirituality to fill their boredom with. It's like a Role Playing game of personal Entertainment than Spiritual Quest for realizing Truth (the true Sufism). They did the same thing with Indian Spirituality in the 70's. Then they did it with Rumi and Hafez and the Persian poets. Except they took the "wine" verses literally when really they were metaphors; and ironically they go around shouting that the verses of the Qur'an about moral admonition and permissbility and forbiddance are "metaphors". Most of the real Die-Hard Sufis don't care about trying to make a nation "modernized" for them these are worldly concepts, the Die-Hard sufis live simple lives where they dwell in nature and meditate on the Divine Reality and forget the material/worldly.

You're not a Sufi, the real Sufis were strict Muslims; the only difference between the Real Sufi and the rigid Blind Faith Mullah; is that the Sufi understood the spiirtual purpose and reality of the Law they're following and knew it's Ultimate Truth. The Blind Faith Mullah did not and hence was merely doing it to appear pious.

Both sides of my family are connected to Sufi traditions; one Qadiri and the other Ba'Alawi.

Honestly if you read the works of great Sufis like Shaikh Abdul Qadir Jilani; it bears very little resemblance to anything you promote. Strange isn't it?

you're just hopping on the trend of the day, Exploiting the Sufi Spiritual Persona as a justification for your very UN-Sufi Lives.

SE brother, why are you suspecting my niath (intentions)...? It is worst sin having doubts about other people beliefs...da zronu hal kho khudai tha malum dai...pa dai kai daira guna da...

[Nick]

dear brother you are a munafiq and speak as one

if muslim brotherhood is what you want, then you will accept that kunar and kandahar become part of loy Iran? of course not

you want islamic brotherhood with majority pashtun. this is no different than 90 million panjabi wanting ``muslim brotherhood`` with a bunch of minorities it can subvert

Afghan is only Pashtun. Heratis, Hazaras, Uzbeks are not Afghans. Afghanistan is an illegitimate name, and Afghanistan is a colonially constructed buffer state

I will never accept the historic Pashtun Afghan name to be leased to others at the expense of my own brothers

Today a Lar Pakhtun will say, how the hell am I Afghan when a Panjsheri is Afghan too....and you will have no answer for him

Loy Afghanistan is a hypocritical double standard position which is why it never caught on

Pakhtuns are amongst the most martial, the most armed, and the most freedom loving people ever. Show me ONCE when Pakhtuns in any significant manner, raised arms for Pakhtunistan?

dear brother you are a munafiq and speak as one

if muslim brotherhood is what you want, then you will accept that kunar and kandahar become part of loy Iran? of course not

you want islamic brotherhood with majority pashtun. this is no different than 90 million panjabi wanting ``muslim brotherhood`` with a bunch of minorities it can subvert

Afghan is only Pashtun. Heratis, Hazaras, Uzbeks are not Afghans. Afghanistan is an illegitimate name, and Afghanistan is a colonially constructed buffer state

I will never accept the historic Pashtun Afghan name to be leased to others at the expense of my own brothers

Today a Lar Pakhtun will say, how the hell am I Afghan when a Panjsheri is Afghan too....and you will have no answer for him

Loy Afghanistan is a hypocritical double standard position which is why it never caught on

Pakhtuns are amongst the most martial, the most armed, and the most freedom loving people ever. Show me ONCE when Pakhtuns in any significant manner, raised arms for Pakhtunistan?

Afghan is only Pashtun. Heratis, Hazaras, Uzbeks are not Afghans. Afghanistan is an illegitimate name, and Afghanistan is a colonially constructed buffer state

Really we have a saying "az ma bood ki az tu shod, eqa beti ki dad-e-ho shoud"
If you don't understand the meaning lets leave it at there. Afghan is Pashtun that I accept, but putting out others is not fair either, you wanted to fair know your words before you mark others as non-Afghan.

I know about Uzbeks, Hazaras but Heratis what made you said that? Why generalize, Kabulis, Kandaharis Mazaris etc etc there are many ethnic and tribes you are putting together.

Now you know me personally, as I said I am half Ghura Khel, a tribe which suffered Mongolian invasion we are all over Afghanistan, as well as in Pakistan, our numbers maybe small but we are larger than popalzai for sure. Speaking of Popalzai, do you their number in Herati and they proudly call themselves "Herati". Speaking of Proud Heratis, do you know their wars against Safivads as well as against Qajars? I don't think so. Also what you know of their pride in Afghan being. Herat is majority Farsiwan, but their tribal lingage is Afgan.

I know you are a nice guy, but friend historically speaking we Farsiwan have contributed in making the of what the word Afghan is today so don't you dear to say "I will never accept the historic Pashtun Afghan name to be leased to others at the expense of my own brothers"
You have no right to reject or accept other people's legitimate claim. Every once a while an idiot comes over and rejects Khattaks as being Afghan, and every once a while another idoit comes and rejects Afridis as being Afghan. and every ones a while another idiot comes and rejects Ghalzai as being Afghan, every once a while another idiots rejects Kakars as being hindu and not Afghan.

The fact that you people are not educated is why we have a destroyed country.

Afghan is not a lingustic term like Parsian or Tazjik or Pashtun and Ghujrati. Its a racial term that goes beyond the one or two dialects.

Someone already tried to explain to you that in general all Pashtuns are Afghan, but not all Afghans are Pashtun. I am proud to be non-Pashtun Afghan, now having said that you don't want to say this to Heratis.

Personal experence 3 years ago when I was in Herat all of my grand-mother's family Ghura Khel are half Pashtun and non of them consider them Pashtun, if anything it was Afghan and by far mostly proudly Heratis. Since they lived in Herat they were fully Herati dialect which differs from my Samali dialect, they just speak fast still I understood them and communicated with my lost-found cousins.

Heratis are great people over all 35% of them are Pashtu speakers and maybe 65% are Afghan by Qwamiat and lingage. The most peacefull loving people in all of Afghanistan.

They all love Ismail Khan and I am one supporter of Ismail Khan, I liked him so much that I named my son Ismail. So you wonder a guy like me anti-Shia, pro-Afghan, Pashtun loving, as being half Smaliwal Ahmadzai and half Ghura khel yet still rejects being Pashtun, why? because I am not Pashtun, I am farsiwan, i am also not lost i can name all of my forefathers up to 12 backround. I memorized the 12 and i have even a page full in lines with all of my grand-father's and some historical events marked thanks to my grandfather.

We are proud Afghan and proud Farsiwans and we are not Pashtuns, yet proud that we share a blood line. Langauge to me and to most of us means nothing. I personally would support Arab as the only Language to worthy of speaking. Hell to all other languages, as I am Muslim I believe there was a reason the Islamic Khilfah decleared Arabic as national language other people would be so stupid and become "Zeban Parast" to an extend to evolve into "Qwam Parasti".

Don't make enemies brother, if you have question or want to know open a thread and ask questions, don't abuse pro-Afghans into becoming anti-Pashtun. You have to accept the fact. Hazaras are here to stay, Uzbeks are going no-where, the only people you may succeed in getting ride of are the 500,000 Tajikistanis who were given new Taskeras by Rabbani during 1990s when they came from Tajikistan. However the Tajikistani who came during 1800s and 1900s are here to stay. And Farsiwans lol don't even dear to rise your fingers at them, cause they consider themselves more Afghan and yet even reject your Pashtun brothers from Pakistan as an Afghan race, and call them "Punjabis" even though some of them are more Pashtun then the Pashtuns of Afghanistan. Education is the key to solve our problems.

[graveyardofempires]

I know they have that your mind state, that is why they are among the poorest nations on earth.

Idiot dont make me run you over.

it is up to Allah who he makes poor or rich.

believe me ,you too will have to be reintegrated like "ghaznawi"

[ScimitarXEdge]

SE brother, why are you suspecting my niath (intentions)...? It is worst sin having doubts about other people beliefs...da zronu hal kho khudai tha malum dai...pa dai kai daira guna da...

la khpel lafzoono zemung ta khpel matlab aw maqsoud khkarah kawey nu zemung ta waye chi yawazai da Khudai sta "niyyat" pohegi.

Khudai da insano maghzono jor wakarr chi mung tar rikhtia aw darwagh manz bel kawoo, pa Ghazni ki yaw matal shta chi waye " kah da spai ghundi ghapegi hase spai"

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

Ghaznavi,
I agree with you but where I am puzzled is what will happen to the shamali. What option are there for them. Would they go to tajikistan, uzbekistan. What will happen to the hazaras. Will the three make one union or seperate unions.

there are many minorities in america, but they know they are better off to stay with the union than to separate, this is their best option.

the northerners will decide for themselves what is the best option, I am inclined to think they will band together in a state which will self destruct regardless.

at best, it can be linked with pashtun states at a supra national level

[graveyardofempires]

la khpel lafzoono zemung ta khpel matlab aw maqsoud khkarah kawey nu zemung ta waye chi yawazai da Khudai sta "niyyat" pohegi.

Khudai da insano maghzono jor wakarr chi mung tar rikhtia aw darwagh manz bel kawoo, pa Ghazni ki yaw matal shta chi waye " kah da spai ghundi ghapegi hase spai"

pe khpel lafzoono mung ta khpel matlab aw maqsad khkarah kawey bya mung ta waye chi yawazai Khudai sta pe "niyyat" pohegi.

Khudai dey insano maghzono jor krey chi mung de rikhtia aw darwagh manz bel kawoo, pa Ghazni ki yaw matal shta/dey chi waye " kah da spai ghundi ghapegi hase spai dey"