Pashtun???

[KingKhan]

What is a Pashtun? Are they from Ghandara civilization, which came from the Indus civilization?

Are they "Iranic?" from Persia?

Are they native to the land they inhabit?

If their "Iranic" what makes Pashtuns so chauvinistic then? Who made these "Iranic" theory researches?

Am bemused.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Researchers came up with these terminologies. Now show us your proof. Don't ask, show :-)

[KingKhan]

Researchers came up with these terminologies. Now show us your proof. Don't ask, show :-)

First give me the proof that was well researched by the Natives of these areas . My evidence comes from Magic, and I can't show it to Maguls.

Please show me the names and their researches. As well as your opinion, as all take your opinion in higher regard then any foreign archealogist.

[Lemar]

What is a Pashtun? Are they from Ghandara civilization, which came from the Indus civilization?

Are they "Iranic?" from Persia?

Are they native to the land they inhabit?

If their "Iranic" what makes Pashtuns so chauvinistic then? Who made these "Iranic" theory researches?

Am bemused.

Thank you King Khan for creating this thread no we can discuss and I am hopeful that you will understand our history and please dont close your eyes on some realties and please also dont tak BS!

First you need to know that Iranic is not related to Persian at all and secondly the correct term for Iranic is Aryan, but the term is not in use because of the infamous Nazi Germans, instead scholars now use Iranic which is derived from Aryan and has the same meaning but you need to remember that the term Iranic was created for political reasons.

Different tribes lived in ancient Aryana and the Pashtuns were one of them and yes they are very very much native to the land that they live!
I have attached a map of Aryana for you to get more.

[KingKhan]

It seems that map goes all the way pass the Indus. If Pashtuns are native to their land, aren't they descendants of the Ghandari? Which in turn are descendants of the Indus civilization?

Also, from what time period is that map.

Mañana, Tashakur, Shukria

[Lemar]

Now please see that most of Iran were not at all in Aryana!

[QUOTE]The term Oldest Afghan Tribes or Original Afghan Tribes refers to the oldest references associated with Afghans.[1][2]
This is attributed to four Afghan Tribes, namely:
Sattagudai > Khattak & Shetak [2]
Gandarioi > Yusufzai
Aparutai > Afridi or Apridi
Dadikai > Zazi or Jaji
Contents [hide]
1 History
1.1 Herodotus
1.2 Sir Olaf Caroe
1.2.1 Afghan Satrapies
1.2.2 Cyrus the Great and Afghans
1.3 Herodotus & Afghan Satrapies
1.4 Afghans as Distinct and separate from Armenians
1.5 Afghans as not being Rajput Indians
1.6 Khattaks & Shetaks are the Sattagudai
1.7 Khattaks and Shetaks as cousins with the same origin
1.8 The unique place of Khattaks/Shetaks in Afghan History
2 Afridis & Khattak blood throughout the ages
2.1 Afghan molding and amalgamation through the ages
3 Winston Churchill on Afghans
4 References
[edit]History

[edit]Herodotus


Bust of Herodotus. 2nd century AD
One of the first accounts related to the Afghan Tribes can be traced to Herodotus. Herodotus (Greek: Ἡρόδοτος Hēródotos) was an ancient Greek historian who lived in the 5th century BC (c. 484 BC – c. 425 BC).
[edit]Sir Olaf Caroe
[edit]Afghan Satrapies
In his book the Pathans 550BC - 1957AD, Caroe writes:[3]
"It is convenient to refer first to the inscriptions of Darius[1], recorded either on rocks or slabs of dressed stone. Among a number of recitations, instinct with a pride and vain-glory which read oddly in an inhibited age, are detailed lists of the satrapies of the empire..."
"The old Persian actually used for the three satrapies most relevant to our present enquiries are THATAGUSH (Sattagydia), GADARA (Gand-hara)..."
[edit]Cyrus the Great and Afghans
"It is possible that Gandhara up to the Indus was a part of Cyrus'[1][1] conquests at the opening of the Achaemenian era, and certain that, if it was not then included in the empire, its inclusion was confirmed as one of Darius' earliest acts."[3]
[edit]Herodotus & Afghan Satrapies
(iii) Herodotus, Book 3, 91. (In this and the two succeeding passages the historian is giving a list of the Achaemenian satrapies and their peoples.)[4]
"The Sattagudai and the Gandarioi and the Dadikai and the Aparutai, who were all reckoned together, paid 170 talents. This was the 7th satrapy"
[edit]Afghans as Distinct and separate from Armenians
(iv) Herodotus, Book 3, 93 [4]
"From Paktuike and the Armenians . . . the sum drawn was 400 talents. This was the i3th satrapy."
It is thus clear that Afghans or Pakhtuns/Pashtuns are not Armenian. Herodotus & the Greeks as well as Darius and the Persians in their accounts mention and reckon them separately.[3][5][6]
[edit]Afghans as not being Rajput Indians
(v) Herodotus, Book 3, 94
"The Indians who are more numerous than all the others we have seen paid more than any other people, namely 3 60 talents of gold dust (equivalent to 4,680 ordinary talents). This was the zoth satrapy."
[4]
In Herodotus's accounts, he mentions as well as the old kingdoms of Greece (Alexander) and Persia (Darius) account all the four Afghan Tribes, namely:
Sattagudai > Khattak & Shetak
Gandarioi > Yusufzai
Aparutai > Afridi or Apridi &
Dadikai > Zazi or Jaji
separately on satrapies whereas, Indians including the Rajputs are accounted separately. This is an indication for them being unrelated nations of people.[5][6][7][8]


A Khattak Elderly man, chieftain. (speen geeray)
[edit]Khattaks & Shetaks are the Sattagudai
Sir Olaf Caroe, The Pathans 550BC 1957AD [3]:
"Let us now refer to the third passage cited, in which Herodotus, without assigning a name to the satrapy, tells us that Darius' yth
Satrapy was inhabited by four tribes, the Sattagudai, the Gandarioi, the Dadikai, and the Aparutai.
Bellew has gone further and identified the Sattagudai with the famous Khatak tribe, and the Dadikai with an obscure branch of Kakars whom he calls Dadi."
[edit]Khattaks and Shetaks as cousins with the same origin
Sir Olaf Caroe, The Pathans 550BC 1957AD [3]:
"Neither Khataks nor ****aks appear by name until the period of publication of genealogies under the Mughals, and the time of Akbar's dealings with the Khataks for the protection of the highway to Peshawar. Babur indeed in his memoirs mentions the Karranis (Karlanris) whom he encountered in 1505 around Bannu along with the Niazis and Isakhel. It is probable that this reference of his is to Khataks or ****aks, or both, for both are Karlanri tribes, and the other Karlanris who live in that area, Wazirs and Bangash, Babur mentions by name when he comes to them."
It is thus clear that Babur & other Mughals in their descriptions identify Khattaks & Shetaks together without any differentiation.
[edit]The unique place of Khattaks/Shetaks in Afghan History
Sir Olaf Caroe, The Pathans 550BC 1957AD [3]:
"Taken together, the Khataks and the ****aks, who now have a common boundary close to Bannu, cover a stretch of territory as large as that held by any Afghan or Pathan tribe, whether Yusufzai, Durrani or Ghalji. From the Khatak settlements around Lundkhwar, close to the Malakand Pass, to the ****ak villages in Upper Daur in the Tochi, the distance is over 200 miles. The wide extent of their present territory, their large population, and the association of both groups of tribes at one time or another with the rich oases of Bannu and the Tochi, suggest sufficiently their importance in this family of peoples."


Karlani Afghan Tribes Genealogy
[edit]Afridis & Khattak blood throughout the ages

Sir Olaf Caroe, The Pathans 550BC 1957AD [3]:
"The Afridis and Khataks lumped together as Karlanris, can be held to reflect a knowledge that they represented a more aboriginal stock, which only later absorbed the characteristics of the invaders. In other words, it is not surprising that in looking for a prototype in the oldest recorded history bearing on this region we hit on the ancestor of the Pakhtun."
Though Afghan DNA has minor contributions from Greeks, Turks, Arabs & Persians, this represents the inter marriages (albeit in minor proportions) between local Afghan Tribes and foreign invaders throughout the ages. This is the basis for some of the Theories though in error of Afghan descent from these peoples.
[edit]Afghan molding and amalgamation through the ages
Sir Olaf Caroe, The Pathans 550BC 1957AD [3]:
"This is not to assert that the ethnic or linguistic stock can be traced through to tribes of similar names today. The case would be rather that these were sub-stratum agglomerations of people who, through contact with later-comers, modified their language and were assimilated to later cultures, but retained in the more inaccessible places sufficient of their older inspirations to boast their original names. The theory does at least give a starting-point to Pathan history & the stock belief in the Bani Israel."
[edit]Winston Churchill on Afghans



Sir Winston Churchill, 1942.
Sir Olaf Caroe, The Pathans 550BC 1957AD [3]:
"Perhaps it would be fair to conclude the Herodotean argument with the words of Winston Churchill on Fair Rosamond: 24"
"Tiresome investigators have undermined this excellent tale, but it certainly should find a place in any history worthy of the name. If Pathans themselves are in doubt, or hanker after more traditional forebears, let them remember that Herodotus was the first to call the people around Paktuike the bravest of all the people in those parts."QUOTE]
Oldest Afghan tribes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[graveyardofempires]

pashtuns are pakis

[shisha]

^no thier afghans i think

[KingKhan]

Good info Lemar

What about this about the Ghandara link (Taken from wiki)

"The Gandharis are in the ancestral lines of the modern-day Dards, Hindkowans and Pashtuns"

[graveyardofempires]

pashtuns are hindukowaanspakdardians

[Lemar]

pashtuns are pakis

Please dont talk NS, this is a serious thread and we are not here to joke.
Thousands read the PF daily and we shouldn't let them have a laugh at us and our ancient history incorrectly described by someone who knows nothing.

manana

[graveyardofempires]

Please dont talk NS, this is a serious thread and we are not here to joke.
Thousands read the PF daily and we shouldn't let them have a laugh at us and our ancient history incorrectly described by someone who knows nothing.

manana

ok we are persians than

[KingKhan]

pashtuns are hindukowaanspakdardians

Mr. mashum if you read what I wrote, I said theirs some researches who said that the Ghandari's descendants are modern day Pashtuns/ Hindkwo, and Dards. Which in a sense makes sense since they live together where the land of Ghandara was.

[graveyardofempires]

wow thank you kingkhan tusey great ho.

[Lemar]

Good info Lemar

What about this about the Ghandara link (Taken from wiki)

"The Gandharis are in the ancestral lines of the modern-day Dards, Hindkowans and Pashtuns"

Please read this you will get it!
if you didnt ask me to explain it for you!

Gandhara - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia