Pashtun with a Israelite past?

[Yos from tribe of Judea]

did you just call us Jews cuz we find that offensive.
we are not jews ,so thats a whole different discussion.
we do believe in Moses,sulaiman,harun as prophets and we do believe that Torah also came from Allah but the only difference is we believe Torah is corrupted.so since we consider that Moses,jesus,soloman,aron,abraham(pbut)were also muslims than to us its about the theory of bani israel not being jew.

Of course you are not Jews, because you are not from the Israelite tribe of Yehuda, Benyamin or Levi who were exiled from the southern Kingdom of Yehuda about 250 years after the Kingdom of Israel which was located in northern Israel fell. If we are brother tribes, then you were exiled as I mentioned from either the tribes of Reuben, Shimon, Yissacher, Zevulun, Dan, Naftali, Gad, Asher, Meneshe or Efraim, which formed the northern Kingdom of Israel.

Second we know that the Jews of Yemen who were more or less cut off from the rest of the know Jewish world until modern times, and were from he second exile of Yehuda, Benyamin and Levi have the exact same Torah minus 2 letters as do the rest of world Jewry and they have been living in Yemen for about 2600 years. They keep more or less the same ritual law as do the rest of known jewry. I would like to stop and remind you the Bani Israel (of which Juda is but one tribe) is only called Jews becuause by the time of the exile of the southern Kingdom of Juda, 2600 years ago, only 3 tribes ( Yehuda, Benyamin and Levi) remaind and since Juda ws the largest, they sort of overshadowed the the other two and thus we are known collectivly known as Jew (from the word Juda). It was also these tribes that came back and ressteled the land of Israel and Jerusalem about 70 years after the exile by Nebuchadnetzar King of Babylon. The other 10 who were exiled about 250 years earlierb by Asseria.

Our Torah and our ancient ways are more or less unchanged, you must rememebr that the 10 northern tribes were spiritually weaker and did more idol worship in biblical times than did the northern Kingdom, there were many evil kings in the north that did not allow their people to go up to Jerusalem to worhsip God in the Temple and therefore they became spiritually weak and thus today you find groups like yours that only maintained small parts of the Torah and its ritual. As I said earlier in the thread, I think that of all the groups that claim "bani Israel" your is the storngest claim, you have the most retained ritual and Israelite memory.

[khushal]

One thing I would like to add to this discussion is that pashtuns like jews think of their land as holy. Pashtuns would spill every drop of blood in them to defend one inch of their land. Derwazkheil already mentioned this but the pashtuns especially in the villages regard the teachings of pashtunwali above the teachings of Islam.

The persian connection doesnt make sense, culturally we are completely different from all the people around us. There are no similarities what so ever. The british labeled us as a "martian race" during their time in pashtunland and the Tajiks would say the Taliban came from another planet.

[Yos from tribe of Judea]

Yos from judea,

Yes there may be a connection. We may be Bani Israel. That's all ethnics and cultural.

We are Muslim. I see this as a way for you to start thinking: why did we become Muslim?

You should think about it.

Dr Michael Goel, who is one of the leaders of the Afgani jewish community, he now lives in Israel

He was interviewed and said the following about a pathan young man that he met in lahore in the punjab:
" I started a conversation with a Muslim, and we were soon involved in a religious debate. A young man overheard us and said 'sir, keep quite i will answer him'. The young man began to curse and revile Muslims, ending with, 'Mohammed is a liar and his koran is false - Moses and his Torah is true!"

He also said he knew that in the area of Lahore and Peshware in Pakistan near Abad there are 30,000 pashtun and they close the gates of the city before Sundown on Friday until after Sundown on Saturday evening - the shabbat of the Israelites/jews.


Also another Jew from Afgahnistan, meir chapi, told of how in peshwar he was invited by a pathan for friday night meal, would you know it there were two candels on table and twelve loaves of bread, we also do this on Friday night, he asked the pathan where this came from and he said he could not explain it, but this was the way of his ancestors.

[randolph85]

Dr Michael Goel, who is one of the leaders of the Afgani jewish community, he now lives in Israel

He was interviewed and said the following about a pathan young man that he met in lahore in the punjab:
" I started a conversation with a Muslim, and we were soon involved in a religious debate. A young man overheard us and said 'sir, keep quite i will answer him'. The young man began to curse and revile Muslims, ending with, 'Mohammed is a liar and his koran is false - Moses and his Torah is true!"

He also said he knew that in the area of Lahore and Peshware in Pakistan near Abad there are 30,000 pashtun and they close the gates of the city before Sundown on Friday until after Sundown on Saturday evening - the shabbat of the Israelites/jews.


Also another Jew from Afgahnistan, meir chapi, told of how in peshwar he was invited by a pathan for friday night meal, would you know it there were two candels on table and twelve loaves of bread, we also do this on Friday night, he asked the pathan where this came from and he said he could not explain it, but this was the way of his ancestors.

thats about the biggest crock of sh1t i have ever read.

[Dreamer]

Not all Pashtun have those features. I dislike Aryan, Iranic, and Persians being termed as Afghans. Just because we are near them don't mean we are them.

If Arabs and Jews are not Iranic, then why are Afghans? Am sure I could find some fair skinned, light eyes Semites as well. That doesn't mean anything.

We could go back and forth. Forget it. Iran or Iranic, it should be west of Afghan and/or Afghanic.

And the toddler in the first pic, is too cute.

loool... semetic people generally do not have coloured eyes nor do they have fair skin....
accept that your ancestors were what they were and stop lookibg to other peoples to make yourself feel somewhat superior by showing a link to quranic/biblical characters
cabul and kabul.... what a big load of crap.... by the time of Soloman the kingdom of Israel had split in2 2 distint kingdoms judea and Israel... the ones which the tribes inhabited was eventually ruined and they were carried off in2 exile (FYI it wasnt solomans kingdom) so they would have little if anything to do with cities of cabul... pretty flimsy evidence... accept that pashtuns are more "brothers" with kurds than with semites

[Yos from tribe of Judea]

thats about the biggest crock of sh1t i have ever read.

Do you have evidence that it is false, do you perhaps know someone who lives in Abad who can verfiy if they really close the gates for 24 hours sunset on friday to sunset Saturday?

If you can verfiy and refute I would be more than happy to hear. As i said in the begining I am simple on a fact finding mission to know if we are brothers or strangers, any info i can get would be helpful.

[randolph85]

you say some afghan jew no one has ever heard of claims a young person said this and that, thats not evidence.

and no, we are not brothers.

unlike jews, we are not racially concerned with what we may or may not of been over 2000 years ago. we all come from adam and eve in the end. today we are pashtuns and muslims.

[Manzareh]

Pashtuns dont pray towards Jerusalem
Pashtuns dont fast specialy on saterdays
Pashtuns dont get circumsized on the 8th day
Pashtuns dont drink wine
Pashtuns dont ask Moses for help
Pashtuns dont eat meat sacrificed by Jews unless its a last resort
Pashtuns are not Jews.

Forgive my bluntness but you seem to be confused with the religion of Pashtuns and the history, i myself dont see the pashtuns as decendents from the Jews, the story of how the pashtuns are the lost tribe of Israel from King Saul is just a theory and not proven, weras the Aryan theory of pashtuns seem more likely. we are a unique people that have nothing in common with Jews.

[Manzareh]

I say we are not the lost tribe of Israel, and you say we are..thers an old saying: Ka ta wayal che za yam aw ma wayal che za yam, na ba ta yee aw na ba
za yam, Aw ka ta wayal che ta yee aw ma wayal che ta yee, hum ba ta yee hum
ba za yam

[Manzareh]

If we were decended from jews then we would still act like jews, afterall "Da maar bachai kho hum maar wee."

[Yos from tribe of Judea]

If we were decended from jews then we would still act like jews, afterall "Da maar bachai kho hum maar wee."

As I have already stated above, Pashtuns on this forum have admitted to me that they do certain Jewish laws. You have to remember that 2700 years ago when the 10 tribes were driven from the land of Israel you were already very weak in your commitment to Torah law, you actually strenghtned a little after going in to exile, while others are now to the dust pan of history. So no you would not be acting exactly as Jews, but it does seem that while yes, you are more or less Muslim you maintain some sort of Israelit memory and you maintain traditions that are not Muslim becuause of this.

[darwezkhail]

As far as I know, no.

Apparently Judea, I had given you the wrong information for which I apologize. As I said, do not expect us to be an adequate and trustworthy source of information. Many members here do not even speak Pakhto including a couple that have replied to this thread, let alone are aware of the baffling customs of traditional tribal Pakhtuns. Some have not even stepped foot in Afghanistan until very recently for a little vacation mostly in the city perhaps because the regions of our concern are currently too dangerous to enter and stay in. I think the best thing is for you to travel to the areas yourself once they are safe enough; you will be welcomed with open arms.

I just remembered the infamous story from my childhood of Mirwais Hotak, a tribal chieftain of Kandahar who had founded Afghanistan's Hotaki dynasty. I have never done much reading of historical narrations such as this one but I do remember this story well referring to wine-drinking as if it was a thing common as early back as the 18th century. Mirwais himself had been a religious student in a madrassa as a youth, and remained an important religious figure up until his death. Therefore, it couldn't have been possible for him to have been openly drinking strong wines with guests as a custom.

Mir Wais formulated plans for disposing of the hated Gurgin; only the difficult task of waiting for the right moment remained.

The moment came in April 1709. Because details of the assassination are varied, this discussion recounts the version popular among Kandaharis today who say that Mir Wais invited Gurgin to a picnic at his country estate at Kohkran on the outskirts of Kandahar city. Here the guests were fed all manner of rich dishes and plied with strong wines until "everyone was plunged in debauch." This was the moment. Mir Wais struck, killing Gurgin, and his followers killed the Georgian's escort. The rebels then marched to take possession of the citadel.

Source: Afghanland.com Afghanistan Mirwais Khan Hotak Hotaki

[Manzareh]

As I have already stated above, Pashtuns on this forum have admitted to me that they do certain Jewish laws. You have to remember that 2700 years ago when the 10 tribes were driven from the land of Israel you were already very weak in your commitment to Torah law, you actually strenghtned a little after going in to exile, while others are now to the dust pan of history. So no you would not be acting exactly as Jews, but it does seem that while yes, you are more or less Muslim you maintain some sort of Israelit memory and you maintain traditions that are not Muslim becuause of this.

So not only are we israelites, but now we are weak Israelites..see this is the problem with you Jews, you have a superiority complex, you look down on people too much and see everyone as weak. Brother Yos im not being biased but you put 10 Jewish men to fight 10 Pashtun men 1 on 1 i would put my life savings down that the Pashtuns would certainly not be weaker. Pashtuns are dominant by nature, you may see this as me talking about the physical aspects and you are talking about steadfastness and controling desires mentally, i am not talking physically although it would contribute to it alot, i am talking about the heart of a Pashtun, and the drive never to give up what he believes in, they would have NEVER been weak in the commitment to the Torah if they were Jews i can assure you they would be the most staunch Jews..ever since the existance they have faught for what they believe in and have reached the pinnicle of their religious beliefs, (Imaandari means Steadfastness which is a key point in Pashtunwali which is the Pashtuns code of life) it would be very unlikely that they were weak in commitment to the Torah law. history shows this from Alexander to Genghis they all recognised this.

2700 years ago we wernt driven out from anyware, Pashtuns would die fighting till the last Pashtun than run away, now or 100 years ago or 2000 years ago we are the same people (to be a pashtun you have to be brave its called 'Tureh' in pashtunwali). we were Pactyan Aryans that still speak the same language. if we were Jews, we would have carried our language along with us to Archosia,Bactriana and Pactya, we have the only surviving language left from ancient Arianna. if anything the only thing that occurd was that the Jews that were driven out were given sanctuary with the ancient Pashtuns/Pakhtus/Hephthalites (because of our 'Melmastia' the respect for guests or 'nanawati' in Pashtunwali) and formed tribes such as the 'orakzais' (these people which are a minority may have Jewish blood, but even so are now a native group).

What makes a person is the heart he has, You will NEVER find a Pashtun in a tank shooting kids with rocks, that my friend is a Jewish heart.

Thanks.

[کیش]

loool... semetic people generally do not have coloured eyes nor do they have fair skin....
accept that your ancestors were what they were and stop lookibg to other peoples to make yourself feel somewhat superior by showing a link to quranic/biblical characters
cabul and kabul.... what a big load of crap.... by the time of Soloman the kingdom of Israel had split in2 2 distint kingdoms judea and Israel... the ones which the tribes inhabited was eventually ruined and they were carried off in2 exile (FYI it wasnt solomans kingdom) so they would have little if anything to do with cities of cabul... pretty flimsy evidence... accept that pashtuns are more "brothers" with kurds than with semites

I didn't say it was solomon kingdom that was exiled, during Solomon, the Judea kingdom was at its peak. Your not bringing any evidence into the whole Iranic bull****. Your just saying "accept, accept accept, accept".I coud accept that you are just a jackass, that just wants to be Persian. While just ignoring everything else. Am tired of debating this topic with someone with deaf ears. You made me waste 1/3 of my total post count debating with someone whose evidence was " accept".

Will just rename the whole world.
Arabia is south Iranic people, who speak a south Iranic language.
Russia is a north Iranic people, who speak a north Iranic
China is far east Iranic people, who speak a far eastern language
India in a south eastern Iranic people, who speak a far eastern Iranic language.

Are you happy, the world revolves Iranic Persia.

[randolph85]

how does a "lost tribe" of pashtuns who stand at 36 million or so, completely outnumber all the jews in the world who are only at 14 million.