Controversial customs among Pashtuns

[Gulalai]

[Michin Khel]

Don't know about other Pukhtoon areas but this is a new to me. In our region when a marriage happens, it is considered strengthening of one matay (shoulders/numbers). So the brother-in-law is consider a brother, part of the family. However amongst some people there is this taboo, of calling someone your Khor Merra, in other words, someone that is sleeping with your sister. For some this thought alone triggers an uneasy feeling because of the strong concept of ghairat and namus, even though the relationship is a legitimate one. Yet the thought of some man sleeping with their namus, for some, is uncomfortable. Not only that, for some, even the suggestion that the way they were born, required their mother to sleep with their father, is insulting enough to cause outrage. Which is of course valid, but, taboo.



Don't know what that is.



This is true, but is also true for many other societies particularly tribal societies. Arabs are known for this: I against my brother, my brother and I against my cousin, my cousin, brother and I against the world. This is also very true in the sub-continent. For example Bollywood has plenty of films on this subject alone.

Not a distinctive Pukhtoon feature....

Lol your mutated and degenerated concept of ghairat and namoos, i would call it an ignorance of a westren pashtun. First of learn pashto ,there is proper word for khor merru i.e "akhshi/akhshay". After that your commentry on ghairat and namoos is weird one and i have never come across this concept of yours...you have pulled it out of your a$$ and labeled it a taboo of pashtun culture. A slap on ghairat would be considered when a person would seek financial help from his "akhshay" or that he stays in the house of his "akhshay" for long and eat muft of tarkari, dodai, chapati there.

[Michin Khel]

This is something I never understood and nor will! You don't marry off your sister/daughter to someone who has interest in her (and she might feel the same way) because it's consider 'un-Islamic' but break your own 'Islamism rules' by forcing her to marry someone else!? Like, how stupid are you!?


What I dislike the most is that a woman is considered brave and tolerant if she spent her entire life in misery, while those who refuse to live such a live are labelled as w****s, s***s, etcetera. And the saddest part is that the women themselves come up with these name-callings!

I would explain it further, people avoid bloody fueds so that they have not to face such day when the only way to resolve the enemity would be to give female of your family to the enemy and female of that family would come to your house as your shaza or mzhor...this is part of "badal" and families dont feel proud about it...If females of families dont "sacrifies" themeselves, males of their family would continue to lose their lives. I know of families whose entire male progeny got killed in such kind of fueds...in pashtun society no one accept defeat so the only solution to end enemity is to become relatives...
Also some times when parents gave their daughter to a family, in exchange they also ask for a daughter of that family for their son...it is a norm

[Michin Khel]

In pashtun society if you are financially poor then it would be very difficult for you to find a bride from a respectable family as buying zar for bride is a compulsory condition. Such families find the bride for their son by giving their daughter in marraige in exchange to that family from whom they asking for bride for their son...
Some families do it for security reasons and gaurantee. E.g if a person A give divorce to his wife, B, then brother of B in return would give divorce to his wife (who would be sister of person B)...

[Afghanistan2010]

In pashtun society if you are financially poor then it would be very difficult for you to find a bride from a respectable family as buying zar for bride is a compulsory condition. Such families find the bride for their son by giving their daughter in marraige in exchange to that family from whom they asking for bride for their son...
Some families do it for security reasons and gaurantee. E.g if a person A give divorce to his wife, B, then brother of B in return would give divorce to his wife (who would be sister of person B)...

Thats not true.... it is up to the situation and place or people you meet.
But if you are poor but you are from well known tribe you will get married where you want.

But the problem is if you want to marry a kuchai it is very difficult because you must have marriage with respectable families which i find pretty much unislamic.

[Michin Khel]

Thats not true.... it is up to the situation and place or people you meet.
But if you are poor but you are from well known tribe you will get married where you want.

But the problem is if you want to marry a kuchai it is very difficult because you must have marriage with respectable families which i find pretty much unislamic.

Tribe? You mean if you come to a ghilzai businessman with claim that you are a durrani, and a descendant of ahamad shah abdali but by profession you are a taxi driver or a labourer then do you think that ghilzai businessman would happily give you his daughter's hand? .Even if girl's family are financially weak but from a decent proper pashtun family, they would demand zar from boy's family. I am speaking from practical point of view. In pashtun-pashtun case from a same tribe family's reputation, social and financial position of boy are basic critereas that are taken into consideration during rishta. If you are marrying outside your tribe , then characteristics of that tribe also come into consideration. Some tribes are lax, other dont give their females in marraige to other tribes (though males may marry outside of tribe).
But i did'nt understand your kochay point. By kochay you mean pawandan and what unislamic?

[khushal]

In pashtun society if you are financially poor then it would be very difficult for you to find a bride from a respectable family as buying zar for bride is a compulsory condition. Such families find the bride for their son by giving their daughter in marraige in exchange to that family from whom they asking for bride for their son...
Some families do it for security reasons and gaurantee. E.g if a person A give divorce to his wife, B, then brother of B in return would give divorce to his wife (who would be sister of person B)...

I agree with you on the other post but this one I am going to disagree with it. first Divorce is not allowed in pashtunwali. Second If divorce does occur, than I have never heard that divice is given in badal marriages like the one in you mention above.
divorce is a sign of baighyrati in pashtunwali. so if person A gives divorce, then Person B would not automatically give divorce and repeat the baighyarti that person A committed.

poor people usually marry in poor families. less zar is bought in poor families where large amount of zar is bought in wealthy families. but you are right that daughters are exchanged to offset the expense of marriage.

[khushal]

Tribe? You mean if you come to a ghilzai businessman with claim that you are a durrani, and a descendant of ahamad shah abdali but by profession you are a taxi driver or a labourer then do you think that ghilzai businessman would happily give you his daughter's hand? .Even if girl's family are financially weak but from a decent proper pashtun family, they would demand zar from boy's family. I am speaking from practical point of view. In pashtun-pashtun case from a same tribe family's reputation, social and financial position of boy are basic critereas that are taken into consideration during rishta. If you are marrying outside your tribe , then characteristics of that tribe also come into consideration. Some tribes are lax, other dont give their females in marraige to other tribes (though males may marry outside of tribe).
But i did'nt understand your kochay point. By kochay you mean pawandan and what unislamic?

I dont know about ghilzai or Durrani but where I am from, ladies are very seldomly given outside the Quom even if the person outside the quom is extremely wealthy.

[khushal]

Lol your mutated and degenerated concept of ghairat and namoos, i would call it an ignorance of a westren pashtun. First of learn pashto ,there is proper word for khor merru i.e "akhshi/akhshay". After that your commentry on ghairat and namoos is weird one and i have never come across this concept of yours...you have pulled it out of your a$$ and labeled it a taboo of pashtun culture. A slap on ghairat would be considered when a person would seek financial help from his "akhshay" or that he stays in the house of his "akhshay" for long and eat muft of tarkari, dodai, chapati there.

Western pashtuns know nothing about pashtunwali. They look at it with distorted lenses and dont know the concept or the evolution of it. They think of it from their own stand point, from where they grow up. They only read about how pashtuns never submitted and the warrior mentality, feeling proud. they dont know the reasons about the tribal way of life. how hard and difficult it is. the sacrifices one must make and near death experiences tribemen face on a daily basis. how survival is very difficult.

[Michin Khel]

I agree with you on the other post but this one I am going to disagree with it. first Divorce is not allowed in pashtunwali. Second If divorce does occur, than I have never heard that divice is given in badal marriages like the one in you mention above.
divorce is a sign of baighyrati in pashtunwali. so if person A gives divorce, then Person B would not automatically give divorce and repeat the baighyarti that person A committed.

poor people usually marry in poor families. less zar is bought in poor families where large amount of zar is bought in wealthy families. but you are right that daughters are exchanged to offset the expense of marriage.

I agree divorce ratio is close to nill in our areas and it was non-existant.. But recently a docter of our region gave divorce to his wife...here and there some events happen...my main point was about security, safety.

If a woman become widow then brother of her deceased husband marry her to keep her and her childrens within family...khushal do you people have this custom?

[khushal]

@Khushal
I am not insulting anyone, I am describing those ill-thinking men who ruin their own children's life for his so-called ghairat none else but himself cares about who definitely do not deserve a happy tone. This is the fault of Pukhtoon-land, people are not ready for changes that involves a life where women can actually breath, where not everyone who falls in love has sexual desires (only), where education for women is not a sign of beghairat and what not! A ghairati is someone who can place his family's best-wil above his own imagination of ghairat and let his women progress with time which will teach her herself how to save her own izzat! Such mentalities need to be fought against, such mentalities need to change! Since I returned from Afghanistan I saw the difference between lifestyle of Pukhtoons and non-Pukhtoons, they both belong to very same country and culture but my is there a huge difference in their thinking! And then we wonder, why people make fun of some of our thinking which contain some very backward mentalities?

those mentalities were evolved for survival. If you want these mentalities to disappear, you must have an enforcement mechanism. In rural pashtunland, it does not exist. Social evolution takes place in the cities frst and moves on to the countryside. Since most of Afghansitan population has been isolated, evolution has been slow. And its not just pashtuns, the tajiks, hazaras, and nuristanis are not that much different who also live in isolated regions.

[Michin Khel]

I dont know about ghilzai or Durrani but where I am from, ladies are very seldomly given outside the Quom even if the person outside the quom is extremely wealthy.

What is your qauom?...some quoms are selective e.g wazirs give their daughters to marwats but not khattaks. Afridis are also highly selective like wazirs. Basically FATA Pashtuns are more strict than settled ones , they dont even sell their lands to other tribes.

[khushal]

Im a zazai

[khushal]

I agree divorce ratio is close to nill in our areas and it was non-existant.. But recently a docter of our region gave divorce to his wife...here and there some events happen...my main point was about security, safety.

If a woman become widow then brother of her deceased husband marry her to keep her and her childrens within family...khushal do you people have this custom?

The only pashtuns I have heard get divorce is in peshawar but its still rare. But yes we have the same custom, if a woman gets widowed, they give her a choice either to marry her husbands brother or stay unwed but her deceased husband brother/brothers would be responsible for her and her children. We have many widows in our area, the ones that are here in the west have set up a fund to help the widows financialy.

[Michin Khel]

Im a zazai

Zazai would be cousin of mangal ?... you are from paktia....paktia is my favourite place in afghanistan, we marwats still have not forgotten about our original abode katawaz...