Controversial customs among Pashtuns

[Shamaar]

Each and every male and female member of Pashtun society has the right to marry under the rules set up by the tribe. A man can marry any adult girl but if she is already engaged to someone else, the question of engagement does not arise as it is considered a serious assault against namos. If this is done without the prior knowledge about the girls engagement then the man has to divorce the girl and give another girl to the tarboor (cousins and distant cousins) of the man engaged to the said girl.

Forced marriage of the widow of a family member, mostly to younger brother is legitimate under narkh (law). If a man is outside his tribe and no one knows about his whereabouts, his parents or relatives have the right to bring the girl by force to their home. However, the majority of the tribes resist this attempt even to the risk of stark animosity as she is considered to be their property with no interference from without. A custom also prevails that an engaged girl whose expected husband is far away or his whereabouts are unknown, may be wedded to his Topak or Tora and may be taken to the house of her husband's relatives.

[Shayesta]

Pashtun parents do not accept the rishta the boy who shows interest/love in their daughter. i.e you cant say to them that my son is in love with your daughter.

This is something I never understood and nor will! You don't marry off your sister/daughter to someone who has interest in her (and she might feel the same way) because it's consider 'un-Islamic' but break your own 'Islamism rules' by forcing her to marry someone else!? Like, how stupid are you!?


What I dislike the most is that a woman is considered brave and tolerant if she spent her entire life in misery, while those who refuse to live such a live are labelled as w****s, s***s, etcetera. And the saddest part is that the women themselves come up with these name-callings!

[Wrayun]

The custom i most despise is the process of resolving badi by giving daughters away as brides to your rivals. exchanging your daughter for some other persons daughter as brides for the sons for the two families.

Wrayons theory of namus having legitimate relations with another man(husband) and the brother feels disrespected is flawed. The only time a pashtun feels disrespected by namus having relationships is when peghor can be given to him. When a pashtuns sister is married to her husband, The brother of the pashtuna does not feel disrespected because peghor can not be given and the namus is no longer his to protect. It is the husbands and the husbands family's namus to protect.
The theory with his father sleeping with his mother is laughable. What, the father is going to give his son peghor that Im sleeping with your mother. The reason most pashtunas dont marry after being widowed is because peghor can be given to the previous namus's family and even to the son of the namus who was fathered by the deceased. Most of the time the widow is married to the deseased husbands brother who again can not give peghor to his own family.

Unfortunate, you did not understand the point of my post. Instead you went about this whole "peghor" thing grena. It was not about peghor at all, but the way Pukhtoons feel about the over all subject of sex and male to female relationships. For example, some Pukhtoons don't use the word "merra", because "merra" means someone you have a relationship with, a passionate one. So instead people use khawand, which means owner. There is nothing wrong with "merra", but the way our people think, their ghairat/namus, their conservative nature, that they shy from using that word.

As for the father/mother, again, nothing to do with "peghor". To understand it, simple go to any Pukhtoon village, ask anyone how they were born, and tell them what happened that night between their mother and father in the most honest and humble manner. Once you get the response, get back to us.

^Something like this is trivial in most communities, you might get a laugh or two out of it, others might even call you an douche for bringing it up, but it just ends there. Can't say that for Pukhtoons.

All of that is due to the fact that Pukhtoons confidence over their ghairat, and namus is so strong that legitimate scenarios and relationships can be uneasy to discuss. Another example, you can't say in front of your wifes brother how beautiful she is. Forget her brother, you can't even say "I love you" to her in front of your own children.

lulz... reminds me of an incident...our family just had received phone services..this was a big issue back then. So my father called and everyone was there including the children, my fathers mother and his sisters while the phone was on speaker...at the end of the conversation my father said everyone take care and told my mother "I love you..."...my mother got mad...and said "kha kha kha bus da bus da"..she hung up the phone...across the room my grandmother was infuriated and said "senga beghairat shooo! warta maloma nada che delta ye khwandai bache oh moor ye nasta da???!?"

[khushal]

Unfortunate, you did not understand the point of my post. Instead you went about this whole "peghor" thing grena. It was not about peghor at all, but the way Pukhtoons feel about the over all subject of sex and male to female relationships. For example, some Pukhtoons don't use the word "merra", because "merra" means someone you have a relationship with, a passionate one. So instead people use khawand, which means owner. There is nothing wrong with "merra", but the way our people think, their ghairat/namus, their conservative nature, that they shy from using that word.

You are wrong. They shy from using that word because it is bad behavior to show public affection for the opposite sex. I have seen the young use it and the elders would say dont say that "bai aduba."(one with bad behavior). This is common in many cultures throughout the world, where it was not proper behavior to show public afection to the opposite sex, especially in the past.

As for the father/mother, again, nothing to do with "peghor". To understand it, simple go to any Pukhtoon village, ask anyone how they were born, and tell them what happened that night between their mother and father in the most honest and humble manner. Once you get the response, get back to us.

I dont know what you are talking about here, but nobody in the village is going to describe the sexual nature of birth because again it is not proper behavior to talk about sex. They will describe the birth process but in language that will avoid any discription of sex and not because they feel taboo about sex but they want to avoid disrespecting any woman.

^Something like this is trivial in most communities, you might get a laugh or two out of it, others might even call you an douche for bringing it up, but it just ends there. Can't say that for Pukhtoons

.

In western societies in the past it was the same way. Nobody talked about sex, it was not proper. But since the sexual revelution, sex has become a casual subject where they teach the subject to kids in 1st grade in some communities. It has even become a casual act now, its not looked down upon anymore.

All of that is due to the fact that Pukhtoons confidence over their ghairat, and namus is so strong that legitimate scenarios and relationships can be uneasy to discuss. Another example, you can't say in front of your wifes brother how beautiful she is. Forget her brother, you can't even say "I love you" to her in front of your own children.

But you can say how smart she is, how nice she is, how caring she is, etc things that describe her character, human qualities. The reason you cant say how beautifull she is or talk about her physical features in front of her brother and father is because they will feel you are talking about her in a sexual way, it would be considered deisrespecting her and her brother and father.

lulz... reminds me of an incident...our family just had received phone services..this was a big issue back then. So my father called and everyone was there including the children, my fathers mother and his sisters while the phone was on speaker...at the end of the conversation my father said everyone take care and told my mother "I love you..."...my mother got mad...and said "kha kha kha bus da bus da"..she hung up the phone...across the room my grandmother was infuriated and said "senga beghairat shooo! warta maloma nada che delta ye khwandai bache oh moor ye nasta da???!?"

Again, its because public affection is considered bad behavior especially in front of the elders. This is very common in southeast asia. Public affection is not shown in front of the elders over there either.

[khushal]

This is something I never understood and nor will! You don't marry off your sister/daughter to someone who has interest in her (and she might feel the same way) because it's consider 'un-Islamic' but break your own 'Islamism rules' by forcing her to marry someone else!? Like, how stupid are you!?
!

Dont call people stupid.
The reason they do that is because the father knows that all men think of when they see women is that they are sexual objects, the father knows what he was like when he was a boy. So if a boy shows interest for his daughter, the father is thinking that the boy is so disrespectfull that he is showing sexual interest publically for his daughter. He feels that his ghyrat is safer if he gives her to someone that has not shown any affection to his daughter. This is the reason this behavior is looked down upon.

[Michin Khel]

Our customs are beautiful. I only have a problem with selling our women.

Nearly all pashtuns demand certain amount of sra zar (gold) from boy, which is in addition to haq mahar. The sra zar is not kept by parents, it is given to the bride and is ultimately used by her husband. you can say it is "pashtun haq mahar"....it can not be called as selling.

[Shayesta]

@Khushal
And do you think by forcing their daughters on someone even worse they are saving their so-called ghairat? If it was limited to sexual desire only then I doubt any man would be stupid enough to sent his family for proposal and actually hold a grand wedding, just so his sexual desires can be fulfilled? I am sorry to say this but such thinking only forces me to think that such men with such thoughts only think every man's thinking is as cheap as theirs.........

I have seen millions of such cases in Pekhawer where the girls either end up marrying someone ridiculously old, or someone they till the end of their lives never found happiness with! Still the fathers don't regret because their 'ghairat' is saved.

[khushal]

Nearly all pashtuns demand certain amount of sra zar (gold) from boy, which is in addition to haq mahar. The sra zar is not kept by parents, it is given to the bride and is ultimately used by her husband. you can say it is "pashtun haq mahar"....it can not be called as selling.

The money is supposed to be used for the the bride, but many times the parents keep it because of poverty. The gold is supposed to be given to the bride and is her property, but sometimes times the husband abuses this right.

I never heard of this straight selling of girls in swat before.

[khushal]

@Khushal
And do you think by forcing their daughters on someone even worse they are saving their so-called ghairat? If it was limited to sexual desire only then I doubt any man would be stupid enough to sent his family for proposal and actually hold a grand wedding, just so his sexual desires can be fulfilled? I am sorry to say this but such thinking only forces me to think that such men with such thoughts only think every man's thinking is as cheap as theirs.........

I have seen millions of such cases in Pekhawer where the girls either end up marrying someone ridiculously old, or someone they till the end of their lives never found happiness with! Still the fathers don't regret because their 'ghairat' is saved.

Why are you so angry all the time, you are very quick to insult others whenever you respond, you must learn to conrol your anger and respond in a more respectable manner.

All Im saying is this is how it is and the reasons why pashtun men do what they do. The Pashtun man only wants to save his ghyrat and avoid peghor. Almost every action he takes in his life comes to this foundation. I know many pashtun men that hate some of the culture but they have no choice in the matter, a man whose ghyrat is tarnished is shunned by the community. Pashtun men even regard their ghyrat above Islam.
Most parents in pashtun culture dont marry the girl off to someone she is better off with, they marry her off to someone they themselves(the parents) are better off with. Sometimes marriage unions are made to settle disputes or rivalries between families, clans and/or tribes.

You are naive into comparing the psyche of the west to the psyche in pashtunland. There is a different history, different culture, different evolution of society. All societies evolve but this society is very isolated from outside interference especially the tribes that live in the mountains.

[akhan]

For those who were asking what is baberrai, here is an explanation I saw on http://www.afghanan.net/pashto/pashtunwali/terms.htm

BABERRAI
Access over a decision of the Jirga is called baberry. This term is usualy used in the cases of Walver (price fixed for the bride).
For example, if an amount is fixed by two parties as walvar but afterwards the family of the girl demands more than what was decided, it would be called Baberry. The word Baberry is also used for the reversal of a disease. In tribal customary law and usage, Baberry can also mean to increase the amount of Nagha previously dicided upon.

[Michin Khel]

Coughing in Kandahar is a huge insult. A Pashtun of Kandahar will take it as an insult.

Lol rekhtiya waya

[Dreamer]

thank goodness some pashtuns have moved with the times

[Wrayun]

It's unfortunate when I see Pukhtoons suffering from tribalistic/regional complexes. The people of Swat sell their daughters? What proof do you guys have, besides what the Pakistani media and news outlets made known through propaganda? All Pukhtoons sell their daughters, if that's what you want to call it. Though that's not what it is, and not the purpose of haq-maher. Others will twist our logic, our customs, to fit their perverted needs to expand their agendas. We have simple customs, that are sometime taken advantage of, and thats it. Ali ra sold his shield to pay Prophet Mohammad for Fatima ra, did the prophet sell his daughter?

Tell me which tribes you guys belong to, so I can teach you a history or two about your specific "customs" whether that be wearing lungs or chasing little cute boys (halakan). You know who you are and which regions I am speaking of.

All Pukhtoons are equal, we all suffer from ills, doesn't give any one the right to look down upon others or demean them. Cut this tribal and regional superiority crap.

[khushal]

I think families giving their daughter in exchange for money is barbaric and wrong.

The money is supposed to be used for the bride by the parents, its not intended for exchange, but some people manipulate the custom because of poverty.

[Shayesta]

@Khushal
I am not insulting anyone, I am describing those ill-thinking men who ruin their own children's life for his so-called ghairat none else but himself cares about who definitely do not deserve a happy tone. This is the fault of Pukhtoon-land, people are not ready for changes that involves a life where women can actually breath, where not everyone who falls in love has sexual desires (only), where education for women is not a sign of beghairat and what not! A ghairati is someone who can place his family's best-wil above his own imagination of ghairat and let his women progress with time which will teach her herself how to save her own izzat! Such mentalities need to be fought against, such mentalities need to change! Since I returned from Afghanistan I saw the difference between lifestyle of Pukhtoons and non-Pukhtoons, they both belong to very same country and culture but my is there a huge difference in their thinking! And then we wonder, why people make fun of some of our thinking which contain some very backward mentalities?