So I heard there are these Pashtun...

[Wrayun]

who have this close-minded world view that if anyone who doesn't belong to their tribal sect, religious sect, social class, village etc. isn't a Pukhtoon or can't be counted as one. What are they suffering from?

[شمله ور خراساني]

pashtunwali?

[Wrayun]

pashtunwali?

Not the one thought and practiced in my village. What about yours?

[شمله ور خراساني]

Not the one thought and practiced in my village. What about yours?

well, in my village we have taliban, hizbe islami, khalqis, parchamis, karzai supporters, farmers, village bandits, sufis, clerks and herdsmen.

All have rivalries and hostilities with each other. Even the khalqis with khalqis and talibs with talibs and herdsmen with herdsmen.

And occasionally they go at each other collectively.

This is why when I go to my village I dont stay too long at one particular relatives home. Because other cousins and uncles might think I am choosing sides in their stupid village disputes.

Its very depressing.

And whats worse, them idiots are proud of what they do. They claim to be the flagbearers ofpashtunwali.

[IamDZJ]

God gave us eyes to see, ears to listen, a mouth to speak with and a brain to take all that and make a fair judgment on behalf of all.
some pashtuns think that most non pashtuns are uncultured faithless traitors who let their women run around shamelessly.. and some non pashtuns believe that pashtuns are uneducated barbaric animals spreading various diseases as well as head lice...
well, if we were to sit down and make judgments based on what our ears hear only...

[pukhtana]

They are suffering from lack of education. They have been brainwashed as I like to call it.

Wrayun,
They have been taught that only their view is correct. The Islam they are following is only correct. Such people are poison.

[unknownprince]

The point of the original post was to state that I find Shiism and Pashtunwali highly contradictory, so I find the idea of a Pashtun Shiite hard to accept. Thats all, and yes, I still have many issues with Shiism. Im not going to be a hypocrite, and pretend not to.

There are too many things that to list, and it is not worse going into it right now. Every Pashtun has to know about pashtunwali. If you study both Pashtunwali and Shiism, you will find too many contradictions, so how does a Pashtun Shiite do it? they have to pick.

[unknownprince]

They are suffering from lack of education. They have been brainwashed as I like to call it.

Wrayun,
They have been taught that only their view is correct. The Islam they are following is only correct. Such people are poison.

No, its not brainwashing. You should know that most Shiites do not consider you their brother or sister (unless you are Shiite). There is a chasm between two sects.

There is no need to just write off people who have problems with Shias as "brainwashed." Maybe you should try to look at the argument being made.

My argument is simply that I don't believe that there are Pashtun Shiites simply due to the fact that Shiism and Pashtunwali are contradictory. My guess then is that these Shiite tribes must be Persian/Turkic.

[akbarkhan]

Do Shia Pashtuns do Mutah?

[Wrayun]

No, its not brainwashing. You should know that most Shiites do not consider you their brother or sister (unless you are Shiite). There is a chasm between two sects.

There is no need to just write of people who have problems with Shias as "brainwashed." Maybe you should try to look at the argument being made.

My argument is simply that I don't believe that there are Pashtun Shiites simply due to the fact that Shiism and Pashtunwali are contradictory. My guess then is that these Shiite tribes must be Persian/Turkic.

Can you elaborate on these contradictions?

[شمله ور خراساني]

Do Shia Pashtuns do Mutah?

who cares if they do mutah or not?

Many shi'ites commit sins far graver than mutah. They attirbute divinity to their imaams.

[unknownprince]

Major contradiction right here: the namus and ghairat, but Shiites practice mutah.

The idolizing of Sayyidina Ali (ra), Sayyidina Hussayn (ra), and others.

In pashtunwali, you can only have trust in God, and not ascribe any partners to Him. Shiites commonly call out to Ali and Hussayn in prayer, ya Ali, ya Hussayn (that is what they say)

Shiites also curse the companions of the Prophet(pbuh). This violates a ton of Pashtunwali codes, especially the one having to do with being kind to everyone, and having respect for everyone.

But I would say that the ghairat and namus are the biggest contradictions for a Pashtun Shiite since he or she is allowed to practice mutah (which is basically adultery). In that case men and women would have lost their ghairat multiple times before committing to a pure marriage!

At a time, I did believe that Shiites and Sunnis should be united, but unity is a two way street, and there is a limit to holding out one's hand.

[Wrayun]

Zahir,

Major contradiction right here: the namus and ghairat, but Shiites practice mutah.

Namus and Ghairat does not apply to mutah, because mutah is not forced. It requires consent from both the male and the female, and the honor of the families is not molested because since they are Shia, it is part of their religious articles. It is a temporary marriage contract, not rape, molestation, or public vulgarity. It is a private matter between two parties, approved by their elders and communities. It is not something against the norms of their community.

Now, if you go and harass a Shia sister, mother, wife in public, force yourself on her, you'll see that their zeal for Namus and Ghairat are as strong as yours.

The idolizing of Sayyidina Ali (ra), Sayyidina Hussayn (ra), and others.

In pashtunwali, you can only have trust in God, and not ascribe any partners to Him. Shiites commonly call out to Ali and Hussayn in prayer, ya Ali, ya Hussayn (that is what they say)

Actually, many Sunni Pukhtoons call out on the Prophet Mohammad (Ya Rasooullah! Ya du janoo sardara!), and their saints, their phirs, their walis, their mashran, their forefathers. Pukhtoonwale has no such thing as not calling out on God or saints, or prophets for protection. Pukhtoonwale has a concept of God (Loy Chikhtan - Great Master/Owner), but doesn't have any rules or restriction on other matters such as calling out on anyone for protection.

Shiites also curse the companions of the Prophet(pbuh). This violates a ton of Pashtunwali codes, especially the one having to do with being kind to everyone, and having respect for everyone.

Majority of the Shia don't insult the companions of the Prophet Mohammad, those that do are nutjobs extremists and we all have them. Even then, it is something that is done by those who are politically motivated and not a prerequisite in Shiaism. That means you can be a Shia, and not insult companions. It's not a requirement.

But I would say that the ghairat and namus are the biggest contradictions for a Pashtun Shiite since he or she is allowed to practice mutah (which is basically adultery). In that case men and women would have lost their ghairat multiple times before committing to a pure marriage!

Adultery is committed when a married person commits a sexual act with other than their spouse. That doesn't apply to mutah. You can argue fornication, but that too doesn't apply because their is a marriage contract (even though temporary) between the parties. And ghairat does not apply to intercourse. That is a very limited/narrow interpretation.

[akbarkhan]

Ahmad dies leaving a 30 year old widow behind. Why is it a taboo to marry her off?

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Zahir, even Sunni Pashtuns overlook Islam for Pashto...you go to any village and you will see that this is the case. I don't know if it is 100% or 50 %, but as far as I know, pashtunwali has certain concepts that Islam would not look kindly towards, yet Pashtuns do it. So are sunni Pashtuns not Pashtuns anymore? What gave you this idea that shia pashtuns don't guard their namus or ghairat?