Pedophilia in Pashtun society

[khushal]

[MENTION=1034]Badlun[/MENTION],

What you should be asking is what led to the social acceptance in certain cultures. In parts of Afghanistan it is accepted. I dont know about now, but back in the 70's, it was traditional for Logari weddings to have dancing boys with the ankle bells.
Najibullah Qureshi's documentary clearly indicates that in Northern Afghanistan, the warlords do not fear anyone prosecuting them or any other consequences to their sick practice of molesting boys. Why are these child molesting warlords empowered by my tax dollars and why is the current defense minister who is a child molester as can be seen here a defense minister in the first place:
Afghan interior minister Kabul بچه بازی بسم الله Ù…Ø*مدی وزیر داخله - YouTube



The uneducated Taliban had this problem tackled and had it under control but the US has brought people back that has made this sick practice as culturally acceptable and unprosecutable.

[Badlun]

So in summary I would say that we need more panoramic vision to link serious problems in our society and if I were gambling man (which I am not) I would venture to say that there are commonalities underlying crimes between vulnerable populations and also examples of how the progression of human rights depends very much on proper governance and societal stability (a lack of which has been imposed for nearly 300+ years on Pashtuns). Otherwise, 1000 NGOs can try to tackle womens issues, childs issues, warlordism, etc etc etc and we can see that either there is retrogression on their watch, faux progress (e.g. more women starting school but with an equal or higher attrition rate in many provinces), or movement forward at a glacial pace with instability of outcomes.

I agree with your scientific approach to deal with such issues but when we have an emergency or a widespread evil like pedophilia , we cannot wait for full diagnosis or reaching to the roots of the issue. Your approach is first to diagnose and then treat but we may not waste time just in diagnosis and the syndrome may become an ailment. Sometimes it is good to have an aspirin for headache than waiting for a detailed examination of the syndrome. Yes when you have time then it is always good to do so.

You receive pedophiles in chains in US but in Pashtun society even it is not considered a crime. It may be taken as an evil or sin as you mentioned in your village story but still it is not a punishable crime.

My approach is that we may not live in denial. We may accept our social and other evils and may chalk out short term plans as I suggest and long term plans as you suggest.

[Badlun]

[MENTION=1034]Badlun[/MENTION],

What you should be asking is what led to the social acceptance in certain cultures. In parts of Afghanistan it is accepted. I dont know about now, but back in the 70's, it was traditional for Logari weddings to have dancing boys with the ankle bells.
Najibullah Qureshi's documentary clearly indicates that in Northern Afghanistan, the warlords do not fear anyone prosecuting them or any other consequences to their sick practice of molesting boys. Why are these child molesting warlords empowered by my tax dollars and why is the current defense minister who is a child molester as can be seen here a defense minister in the first place:
Afghan interior minister Kabul بچه بازی بسم الله Ù…Ø*مدی وزیر داخله - YouTube[/URL]



The uneducated Taliban had this problem tackled and had it under control but the US has brought people back that has made this sick practice as culturally acceptable and unprosecutable.

You do not need Taliban to uproot such evils. You need modern education, democracy, freedom of expression, human rights and open debates in society.

However I appreciate your sharing of the article which realistically analyzes the issue and argues that the world is preparing the stage to declare pedophilia normal like homosexuality.

This is thought provoking as if pedophilia like homosexuality is some thing inborn then one day it will be legal in the world as it was legal in Greece etc or it is normal in Pashtun society today. I am confused and astounded at this moment.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

I agree with your scientific approach to deal with such issues but when we have an emergency or a widespread evil like pedophilia , we cannot wait for full diagnosis or reaching to the roots of the issue. Your approach is first to diagnose and then treat but we may not waste time just in diagnosis and the syndrome may become an ailment. Sometimes it is good to have an aspirin for headache than waiting for a detailed examination of the syndrome. Yes when you have time then it is always good to do so.

You receive pedophiles in chains in US but in Pashtun society even it is not considered a crime. It may be taken as an evil or sin as you mentioned in your village story but still it is not a punishable crime.

My approach is that we may not live in denial. We may accept our social and other evils and may chalk out short term plans as I suggest and long term plans as you suggest.

I am not saying wait till eternity or a full set of data is in hand. I am saying simply that the big picture underlying pathologies need to be treated aggressively (the issues I mentioned) and possibly first, with more emphasis, money, and accountability in those directions and these issues will be solved in tandem as a consequence. Data can be collected alongside attacking the root problems.

Also in vigilante societies, my example was to meant to show, that often the problem is solved before even a trial with the accused or aggressor maimed or chained or killed.

On the other side of the border I was in a village near Jalozai Camp. The villagers that were my hosts pointed out an old limping man (I even still recall his name). He was a local Khattak and the host people were Charsadda Muhammadzai transplants to the area. They told me that when the old Khattak man was young he was into these sorts of unnatural things. One of the boys (now an old man) he tried to abuse back in the 1950s era was a member of the host family. The brothers of the host family took a ribbed army knife with them to the playing fields and basically turned him into a handicap when they stabbed him in the leg and dragged the knife upwards and probably severed an important nerve. The reason they told me this is that they did not want me to treat him. Out of this came internal warfare and the host family called in their relatives with arms and weapons from the area they were originally from and eventually the tribes made a peace after enough people got killed.

My point is that America has had time to develop and implement effective governance and that is why you see the men in chains.

Back home, these matters are solved in the ways I detailed from two cases across the border from each other.

I am not advocating vigilante justice, I am merely pointing out that these developing societies or war torn societies have their own substandard pre trial methodologies and that these are the punishments. This actually makes sense since for theft, abuses of other sorts, etc it is the same sort of outside of an official central governance approach through which justice is dispensed.

[KGODB]

How are? Long time.

I totally disagree man. Its not segregation, pedo. is deviant behaviour. It's found even in sexually mixed permissive societies, from belgium to atlanta, from egypt to lahore but not accepted as was with Greeks (and Spartans?)

It is seen acceptable or even 'normal' because the deviancy is unchallenged for reasons that need exploring, but inherent in the social group.

Salam wrora, I hope all is well with you.

I dont deny whatsoever, that sexual deviancy is found in many societies, one can even argue its inherent to the human condition

But in the case of Afghanistan, in addition to this inherent sexual deviancy, the segregation of sexes is a factor that, in my opinion, aggravates the situation beyond what was already present

[Khostai]

Salam wrora, I hope all is well with you.

I dont deny whatsoever, that sexual deviancy is found in many societies, one can even argue its inherent to the human condition

But in the case of Afghanistan, in addition to this inherent sexual deviancy, the segregation of sexes is a factor that, in my opinion, aggravates the situation beyond what was already present

I agree with you. In western countries were the sexes are mixed also pedophily and homosexuality excist no one denys that. But I never came across pedo cases where they dressed young boys as girls to dance for them and than rape them.... This just proves how sexualy frustrated men are in Afghanistan and some regions of other muslim countries.

[jankhan]

I agree with you. In western countries were the sexes are mixed also pedophily and homosexuality excist no one denys that. But I never came across pedo cases where they dressed young boys as girls to dance for them and than rape them.... This just proves how sexualy frustrated men are in Afghanistan and some regions of other muslim countries.

The violence factor is due the acceptance and non acceptance by the society.

[Khostai]

The violence factor is due the acceptance and non acceptance by the society.

acceptance of?

[jankhan]

acceptance of?

Acceptance of this act. In Europe it has been accepted as a social and legal thing but in Afghanistan it has not been accepted that is why the violence factor is there.

[khushal]

I agree with you. In western countries were the sexes are mixed also pedophily and homosexuality excist no one denys that. But I never came across pedo cases where they dressed young boys as girls to dance for them and than rape them.... This just proves how sexualy frustrated men are in Afghanistan and some regions of other muslim countries.

So those men in the west that dress like women are because western men are sexually frustrated? lol

[khushal]

You do not need Taliban to uproot such evils. You need modern education, democracy, freedom of expression, human rights and open debates in society.

However I appreciate your sharing of the article which realistically analyzes the issue and argues that the world is preparing the stage to declare pedophilia normal like homosexuality.

This is thought provoking as if pedophilia like homosexuality is some thing inborn then one day it will be legal in the world as it was legal in Greece etc or it is normal in Pashtun society today. I am confused and astounded at this moment.

True, but the Taliban are the only ones who have done something about it.

Are you not the one who promotes the Islamic moral values be kept within one self and not promoted outside of one self. When one loses Moral values, then humanity loses itself and abuse increases. Science is just a tool, it can be used to promote moral values but it can also be used to degrade moral values.

[Khostai]

Acceptance of this act. In Europe it has been accepted as a social and legal thing but in Afghanistan it has not been accepted that is why the violence factor is there.

Acceptance of homosexuality not phedophilia those are two diffrent thing. I hope you know that

[Khostai]

So those men in the west that dress like women are because western men are sexually frustrated? lol

You said it yourself. Men that dress like women not littel boys who are forced to dress like girls and dance.

[khushal]

You said it yourself. Men that dress like women not littel boys who are forced to dress like girls and dance.

whether they are little boys or grown men in this regard about sexual frustration does not matter.

If you have society A who has males that dress like females and dance for men and also females that dance for men and both are equally available.

And you have society B who has males that dress like females and dance and young boys who do the same but females are not equally available for such entertainment.

You have the same result in both societies its just that in society A, men that dress like women are socially accepted and young boys are not and society B both are socially accepted.

The conclusion would be that the trigger is the social acceptance of the deviant behavior not sexual frustration.

If we are to believe what you say that the trigger is sexual frustration then if you, Khostia, are sexually frustrated, then you are going to abuse young boys.

[Khostai]

whether they are little boys or grown men in this regard about sexual frustration does not matter.

If you have society A who has males that dress like females and dance for men and also females that dance for men and both are equally available.

And you have society B who has males that dress like females and dance and young boys who do the same but females are not equally available for such entertainment.

You have the same result in both societies its just that in society A, men that dress like women are socially accepted and young boys are not and society B both are socially accepted.

The conclusion would be that the trigger is the social acceptance of the deviant behavior not sexual frustration.

If we are to believe what you say that the trigger is sexual frustration then if you, Khostia, are sexually frustrated, then you are going to abuse young boys.

In society A I guess you mean the western society, men in dress are drag queens who do it themself, they are not forced by other men to dress like that.
When in society B here Afghanistan grown men who can't get sex with women dress littel boys as girls and force them, it clearly shows sexual frustration, the same happen also in prison, when men see other men who are weaker or slightly feminine they get raped.
If the men were not frustrated they would not dress them as girls, it clearly show that they still desire a woman and not a boy or another man.