Why do people marry their cousins in the south asian sub Cont.

[Palwasha]

Shahid Afridi married his cousin.

[Master Khan]

Shahid Afridi married his cousin.

Yeah he married his first cousin and they got beautiful kids mashallah.
Anyone can have a disable child, plus marrying in cousins is better saka bia di koor parda ba na mataah

[tor_khan]

Shahid Afridi married his cousin.

... And so did Mr Natural Selection, Theory of Evolution (Monkeys to Man) and Godfather of Genetics

Mr Charles Darwin

First cousin, not second, or three times removed, but first

[Master Khan]

Well the first human on earth Adam and Eve had children and their children married each other..e.g. brother and sister.
I think in old times in Egypt some people married their sisters.

[Palwasha]

... And so did Mr Natural Selection, Theory of Evolution (Monkeys to Man) and Godfather of Genetics

Mr Charles Darwin

First cousin, not second, or three times removed, but first

He did indeed, back then it was common in England. Many of his children also died from a suspected genetic disorder.

any source for that Mr. Tor Khan? And Khaney?

Erm I dont have a specific source, wiki would tell for Darwin though.

[tor_khan]

any source for that Mr. Tor Khan? And Khaney?

Wikipedia (of course), but since that's not always concrete

Consider:

http://marriage.about.com/od/historical/a/darwincharles.htm

In addition Deborah Heiligman wrote a book called A Leap of Faith which charts the life paths of Charles and Emma Darwin. He was basically an atheist and she was a devout Christian and feared that he would fall foul.

The priest that married them was, unsurprisingly, another first cousin to both Charles and Emma.

http://www.deborahheiligman.com/charlesandemma.html

As Khaney says 3 of their 10 children died in infancy. I'm not sure if this was "genetic" because historically child mortality was a fact caused by illnesses that modern medicine would usually prevent.

The point is that Charles Darwin, atheist/agnostic or otherwise took an interest in "genetic" selection/was married to his cousin.

[Laila]

^^Yes, exactly. Personally i wouldnt necessarily say 'beneficial' to health....but it does not harm your health.

So going back to the point of this thread......

People only came up with this idea that it causes birth defects because for one they considered it 'incest' when it simply its NOT. For another thing, people have said that in cultures or countries that practice 'marriage between first cousins' has the increased birth defects. Nope, i do not think it is true. It is true that birth defects are high among lets say Afghanistan, but not because its the parents actual relation. Its more of the environment and state of living, and medical care there.

I think the US has one of the highest birth defects in the world. Why do you say so? In 3 out of 100 children in the US have birth defects. We have so many cases of FAS, Down Syndrome, Autism, etc. This is caused by genetics, environment, and many unknown factors.

Now, it is harmful for marriage cousins if they have a passed on genes of known risk factors in health. If its quite common in the family or something, then you are taking a risk. But if that is not the case, then no, its not harmful.

[Roshina]

Some of us here seem to believe that marriage to ALL cousins at ANY time is harmful and should therefore be avoided; others among us seem to have observed there's nothing at all wrong with it.

I think both sides misunderstand the matter.

It is generally known by now that the combination of too many genes from the same ancestor (in this case, by ancestor, I mean grandparents) causes severe genetic problems. It depends on whether the marriage is to a 1st-cousin or a far relative.

First-cousin marriages do lead to genetic disorders, but not just if you marry your cousin and it's the first or second instance it's happened in your family history. Disorders will take place if your parents were first-cousins, then you marry a first-cousin (or another close relative), and even if you skip a generation, if your grandchildren marry first-cousin. Chances of the disorder grow higher and higher, as they do each time you marry a close relative.

Now, if a person marries his cousin, it's not GUARANTEED that their children will be affected, of course; the marriage merely increases the chances that problems will be produced. It should not be claimed, therefore, that ALL children who are products of such marriages are going to suffer the consequences of their parents' union; some will, some won't, and in some cases, even NONE will be affected -- But that's not to conclude that problems don't at all arise as a consequence of consanguineous marriages.

I honestly don't think the deal is about culture/religion. I mean, yeah it's the norm in the east (and believe it or not, but it's NOT illegal in most states in the U.S.! Unfortunately, many Americans don't know this and think that it's disgusting to marry a cousin), so we shouldn't react to the response on marriages to cousins in a sensitive manner.

Me, I personally don't have a problem with marriages between cousins (even first-cousins), but because most of my cousins are my parents' direct blood-relatives, I wouldn't allow it for myself. WOULD I EVER DO IT? Sure, if I had a cousin who was the most intelligent thing on earth :D I just would not have any kids then (Jokes? Maybe not.)

@ Master Khan: In Eve and Adam's time, we had no one besides them, so we had no other options besides marrying our own blood *brothers and sisters*. Of course, the concept of marriage back then was not what it is today. But now that humans (homo sapiens) have been extant for at least 1,800,000 years, and there are over 6 billion humans worldwide, there's really no need to marry a 1st-cousin after 1st-cousin after 1st-cousin. (That means if your parents and grandparents were first-cousins, AND you marry a first-cousin, too, then that's harmful for your children.)

[Roshina]

^But there is also scientifically researched that there is a benefit from it as well.

Research done where? When? Conducted by which institution? Details, with source, needed, guley

Are the benefits scientific? Social/cultural? Do they have anything good to offer to the individual's or their children's health?

I can't imagine what can be beneficial from being the product of a first-cousins and then marrying your first-cousin only to have at least one of your child marry a close relative as well. Can you? ...

Certainly, if there has been some generation gap -- say, for instance, your great-grandparents were close relatives, your parents aren't related at all, you married a relative (close or non-close) -- then there may no be any serious issues in your children marrying 1st-cousins. But the combination of way too many genes, regardless of which generation, is certainly unhealthy. The consequences may not always be obvious; it's possible that they be latent so that we can't notice them ... but they may appear so in our grandkids.

[Roshina]

Thanks, Samima, for posting the article here!

Now ... the first question that comes to my mind as I read that is:

Were the subjects of their study themselves products of first-cousin marriages? They don't give us that information in this article, and I think that's very important to know before we fully reject or accept their conclusions.

You get what I mean, Samima?

Also, the study says:

Scientists say there are at least 5,000 diseases caused by inherited mutations called recessive genes. Possessing a single copy of the mutation is often harmless, but if a copy is inherited from each parent, the result can be death or chronic disease. Because first cousins share a pair of grandparents, the chances are greater that each will pass a copy of a "bad gene" to their child, triggering the disorder.

That's right. That's just one of the harms. The benefit is ...

The researchers concluded that children of marriages between cousins inherited recessive genetic disorders, such as cystic fibrosis and Tay-Sachs disease, in 7% to 8% of cases. For the general population, the rate was 5%.

That's a benefit? ...

You see, "headlines" are always -- ALWAYS -- deceiving. The title of this study makes you think, "Oh wow! So it's totally okay to marry first-cousins, eh! Goodie." And then you read further into it, and it tells you this:

"A 7 to 8% chance (of genetic disorder) is 50% greater than a 5% chance," says Philip Reilly, geneticist and author of Abraham Lincoln's DNA, a popular history of human genetics.

Still, as quoted above, the study itself tells us that having a common grandparent may not be a good idea for the couple if they want to have children.

Besides, the spotlight should not be just on the first-cousins wanting to marry and have kids: it should be extended to their parents and grandparents as well, because the latter ones play the dominant role in determining how the former's children will turn out. So if your family doesn't usually marry close relatives, it may be okay for you to marry one, a point I've explained in my first post on the issue.

So I wouldn't take the conclusions of a study in which the subjects were *most likely not the children of parents who were first-cousins* to mean that they apply to ALL first-cousins who want to marry. But maybe that's just me.

P.S. The link to the above article is: http://www.usatoday.com/news/science...04-cousins.htm

[Talal]

good points ladies, i didnt know about half this stuff...but i got rid of all my cuznz ages ago so i got nothing to worry about

[wtfyo]

I actually don't know anyone aside from Muslims who marry within family. Yes I do agree with the comment earlier, English and Germanic royals used to marry within family to keep the royal blood. Medically speaking if a certain family has a strain of genes which contribute to heart disease or something else...this will only complicate the lives of future offspring. I can't comment on the religion aspect of it as I'm not familiar with it.

[Roshina]

The prince of England married his cousin. [...] Albert Einstein married his first cousin. And so did Charles Darwin, who had exceptional children.
Franklin D. Roosevelt, the longest serving US president in history married his cousin (not a first cousin, however they shared the same last name)

So? They did it so we should, too?

Its allowed in our Religion, if you are a Muslim.

Keyword there: ALLOWED - not enforced or mandatory. Mind you, Islam doesn't say you "can" marry cousins; it tells us only of the people we CANNOT marry. That's all.

There is nothing wrong with it, If you think its gross, you are disrespecting Islam and our Prophet.

If you've read my posts clearly, then you should be able to determine whether I find anything "gross" about cousin-marriages or not.

But even if I DID say or believe that marriage to cousins is gross (which, mind, you I haven't even said is wrong or bad, let alone gross), I still would totally disagree that I'm "disrespecting" the Prophet or Islam. How so?

It is estimated that 20 percent of all couples worldwide are first cousins. It is also estimated that 80 percent of all marriages historically have been between first cousins! [...]
In some cultures, the term cousin and mate are synonymous.

Current studies indicate that cousin couples have a lower ratio of miscarriages -- perhaps because body chemistry of cousins is more similar. The verdict is still out.

You forgot to cite all of the above claims, khor jaaney me!

We are all cousins. No two people are more distantly related than 50th cousins.

If you can differentiate between 1st-/2nd-cousin and 50th cousin, then you should be able to note that in my posts, I've constantly emphasized the "numberth" cousin. So, while marriages to 1st-cousins are usually harmful, 5th cousin-marriages are almost never harmful.

[Bonquiqui]

Why do people marry their cousins in the South Asian subcontinent?

Eh, I don't know. Probably because they feel like it?

Its funny how y'all manage to turn every discussion into a religious one :|

[SanaAteeq]

My big sister and I are only half pashtun, and yet my dad still is very conservative. He married my big sister off to our first cousin.