Pashtun system of marriage has benefits...

[Azmal]

Of course let's stress here that developmental compatibility is a continuum and not merely a sharply rigidly defined Digit of when is or when it isn't appropriate to marry; but it's clear a 60 year old and 14 year old female does not match up. A 60 year old is starting to decay; his testosterone production has declined considerably. A 14 year old is "budding" ; her body is becoming increasingly more fertile (though not necessarily capable of healthy pregnancy) and producing more estrogen and progesterone. Sure we can argue that.

Mahmood,
How can you say this if you're indifferent about Prophet Mohammad marrying a 9 year old at 53? Keeping in mind morality isn't determined by what the law is. Laws are created to accommodate moral principles, not the other way around. The moral principles that created those laws aren't definite either; they are only a reflection of a population's consensus on right and wrong. Otherwise pre-Islamic Arabia's burying girls and other barbaric practices weren't immoral because it was consistent with the law. For you as muslim, why is it immoral or wrong now and not back then? Shouldn't Islam be the guidance to "right and wrong"? According to Islam, there is nothing to prohibit what Muhammad did. What Islamic basis is there to ridicule a Muslim Pashtun of today's age that marries a 14 year old at the age of 60? Does God's morality change? Mind you, this isn't the case of some peasant in the Middle Ages; it's someone who claimed to be the messenger of God and the ultimate example for humanity. If God's morality is perfect, it doesn't change.
It's hypocritical for you self proclaim muslin to NOT call Muhammad's actions wrong and yet forbid it for people in this age, worst excuse Muhammad in his day and label it acceptable.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Mahmood,
How can you say this if you're indifferent about Prophet Mohammad marrying a 9 year old at 53? Keeping in mind morality isn't determined by what the law is. Laws are created to accommodate moral principles, not the other way around. The moral principles that created those laws aren't definite either; they are only a reflection of a population's consensus on right and wrong. Otherwise pre-Islamic Arabia's burying girls and other barbaric practices weren't immoral because it was consistent with the law. For you as muslim, why is it immoral or wrong now and not back then? Shouldn't Islam be the guidance to "right and wrong"? According to Islam, there is nothing to prohibit what Muhammad did. What Islamic basis is there to ridicule a Muslim Pashtun of today's age that marries a 14 year old at the age of 60? Does God's morality change? Mind you, this isn't the case of some peasant in the Middle Ages; it's someone who claimed to be the messenger of God and the ultimate example for humanity. If God's morality is perfect, it doesn't change.
It's hypocritical for you self proclaim muslin to NOT call Muhammad's actions wrong and yet forbid it for people in this age, worst excuse Muhammad in his day and label it acceptable.

Prophet Muhammad(saw) is an exception to everything, and so is 'AIsha(ra) ...'Aisha(ra) was exceptional in every way, developmentally, cognitively and functionally. The Marriage of Prophet Muhammad(saw) and 'Aisha(ra) was never meant to be the "defining standard" of what is the appropriate age for marriage. Being a Prophet(saw) his actions are guided by God and thus a Pashtuns actions cannot be compared on the scale of Nabi(saw) since his marriages were alleged to be DIVINELY directed. When is a Pashtun's marriage to a 14 year old which happened to be the consequence of SWARA where she is forced to marry him against her will ordained?. Muhammad(saw) married 13 women, a Pashtun can't marry 13 women. The fact Muhammad(saw) was guided by God is precisely what makes him an exception. We're only to follow Muhammad(saw) on what HE allowed us to follow, not ANYTHING he did. if that was the case, then we could also start making Prophecies. Pashtunwali is a bunch of backwards and ignorant customs which must be abolished completely and replaced with Islamic standards.

Nothing hypocritical about it.

[Azmal]

Prophet Muhammad(saw) is an exception to everything, and so is 'AIsha(ra) ...'Aisha(ra) was exceptional in every way, developmentally, cognitively and functionally. The Marriage of Prophet Muhammad(saw) and 'Aisha(ra) was never meant to be the "defining standard" of what is the appropriate age for marriage. Being a Prophet(saw) his actions are guided by God and thus a Pashtuns actions cannot be compared on the scale of Nabi(saw) since his marriages were alleged to be DIVINELY directed. When is a Pashtun's marriage to a 14 year old which happened to be the consequence of SWARA where she is forced to marry him against her will ordained?. Muhammad(saw) married 13 women, a Pashtun can't marry 13 women. The fact Muhammad(saw) was guided by God is precisely what makes him an exception. We're only to follow Muhammad(saw) on what HE allowed us to follow, not ANYTHING he did. if that was the case, then we could also start making Prophecies. Pashtunwali is a bunch of backwards and ignorant customs which must be abolished completely and replaced with Islamic standards.

Nothing hypocritical about it.

Mahmood,
Your too smart for the lame “exception” excuse, Muhammad is a central figure in the life and faith of Muslims. He revealed the words of the Quran, and lived Islam as an example for Muslims to follow. The important question is--- Was Aisha aware that she was about to marry the person who seem to have had an uncle figure role on her life during her childhood? at age 6 was Aisha given the chance to decide for herself? There are hadith(off course form biased Islamic sources)that Aisha loved Muhammad but perhaps she had a bad case of stockholm syndrome?
Off course we can’t judge 6th century Arabia as people or their intentions based on today, but we can judge their actions are right or wrong....as most Muslims believes Mohammad’s prophet hood is what makes it supposedly timeless, especially considering he never denounced such an act, nor was it mentioned as liable to be wrong in the Quran.
Some Muslims believe that the age was much greater based on different sources, and I won't argue that. My focus personally is on people that claim "it was right then but its wrong now" despite the action being done by a prophet, and their religion is claiming timeless morality. This is hypocritical.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Mahmood,
Your too smart for the lame “exception” excuse, Muhammad is a central figure in the life and faith of Muslims. He revealed the words of the Quran, and lived Islam as an example for Muslims to follow. The important question is--- Was Aisha aware that she was about to marry the person who seem to have had an uncle figure role on her life during her childhood? at age 6 was Aisha given the chance to decide for herself? There are hadith(off course form biased Islamic sources)that Aisha loved Muhammad but perhaps she had a bad case of stockholm syndrome?
Off course we can’t judge 6th century Arabia as people or their intentions based on today, but we can judge their actions are right or wrong....as most Muslims believes Mohammad’s prophet hood is what makes it supposedly timeless, especially considering he never denounced such an act, nor was it mentioned as liable to be wrong in the Quran.
Some Muslims believe that the age was much greater based on different sources, and I won't argue that. My focus personally is on people that claim "it was right then but its wrong now" despite the action being done by a prophet, and their religion is claiming timeless morality. This is hypocritical.

There's no excuse because it is actually enshrined in the Qur'an that Muhammad(saw) was an exception in NUMEROUS cases.

We're not judging 6th Arabs by Modern Values; we're judging Absurd cultural practices by correct understandings of human development. Forcing girls to marry a man to settle a debt is wrong, no matter what her age, It is forbidden in Islam but accepted in Pashtunwali as "swara". It wasn't "right" then or "wrong" now. Muhammad(saw)'s marriage worked becauseecause he was divinely guided and had knowledge of things most humans would not have known, and that's why Aisha(ra) was an exception. This does not automatically apply to everyone in ALL cases, therefore exceptionalism applies.

If you believe that Nabi(saw) received Wahy, then you have to admit that he was exceptional by the fact he had Wahy. Therefore UNLESS Muhammad(saw) explicitly ordered or sanctioned marriage to ANY 9 year old girl, then such practices are shunned. The rule in Islamic law is BALAGHA meaning maturity, Aisha(ra) was DEVELOPMENTALLY mature. By that concept.

Pashtun pick girls who aren't even developmentally mature. Therefore Pashtuns are not following Islam but backwards Pashtunwali culture. Nevermind the fact Pashtuns forcing women into marriages is completely harram.

[khushal]

Did society choice mullah Omar?

A large segment did at that time. This is evident by the fact that he swept through most of the country without resistance.

[Azmal]

There's no excuse because it is actually enshrined in the Qur'an that Muhammad(saw) was an exception in NUMEROUS cases.

We're not judging 6th Arabs by Modern Values; we're judging Absurd cultural practices by correct understandings of human development. Forcing girls to marry a man to settle a debt is wrong, no matter what her age, It is forbidden in Islam but accepted in Pashtunwali as "swara". It wasn't "right" then or "wrong" now. Muhammad(saw)'s marriage worked becauseecause he was divinely guided and had knowledge of things most humans would not have known, and that's why Aisha(ra) was an exception. This does not automatically apply to everyone in ALL cases, therefore exceptionalism applies.

If you believe that Nabi(saw) received Wahy, then you have to admit that he was exceptional by the fact he had Wahy. Therefore UNLESS Muhammad(saw) explicitly ordered or sanctioned marriage to ANY 9 year old girl, then such practices are shunned. The rule in Islamic law is BALAGHA meaning maturity, Aisha(ra) was DEVELOPMENTALLY mature. By that concept.

Pashtun pick girls who aren't even developmentally mature. Therefore Pashtuns are not following Islam but backwards Pashtunwali culture. Nevermind the fact Pashtuns forcing women into marriages is completely harram.

Mahmood khana,
Qoran literally refers to the statue of prophet as a role model: "There has certainly been for you in the messenger of Allah an excellent pattern for anyone whose hope is in Allah and Last day [who] remember Allah often." The Arabic word uswa in the verse means example or model that should be obeyed and followed. A person who follows another imitates their behaviour, attitude, and style. This verse shows the impotence of Sunnah(way or pat) in the lives of Muslim who practices his way in almost every aspect of life. Qoran called Prophet Mohammad "And surely you are of an exalted character"(Quran 68:4). Most important of all there is no Hadith where Mohammad had denounced such an act, nor was it mentioned as liable to be wrong in the Quran. How could a Pashtun Mesher be denounced for an action that your beloved prophet had practice?---Seem like you don’t agree with lead by example but more with do as I say not as I do. Hahaha lol

[Azmal]

A large segment did at that time. This is evident by the fact that he swept through most of the country without resistance.

“swept through most of the country.” Had other aspects which included but noted limited to Faki Army/ISI actively supporting Taliban… literary running Taliban war machine—including in planning, regular frontier force soldiers and finances. Total tiredness from lawlessness, war and criminal warlords by Afghan population and most important Taliban propaganda that they will facilitate the return of Zahir shah…when the population learn the real face of Taliban rebellions against them started…a good 2 years before 2001. The simple fact they were uprooted in less than a week from all over Afghanistan says a lot how much society approves of them. The reason for Taliban survival after 10 years of war has more to do with corruption of Karzia gov and lack of alternative to channel people’s anger against these corruption official and lack of government. Once people are given another alternative to channel their discord against Karzia gov, the Taliban bubble will get burst …just as we see in Maidan Shahar, Ghazni, Kunar and other places where local people are raising against them.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

A large segment did at that time. This is evident by the fact that he swept through most of the country without resistance.

intimidation, being distressed by the already existing situation and ignorance of Mullah Omar's future injustices against Afghans probably had to do with that.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Mahmood khana,
Qoran literally refers to the statue of prophet as a role model: "There has certainly been for you in the messenger of Allah an excellent pattern for anyone whose hope is in Allah and Last day [who] remember Allah often." The Arabic word uswa in the verse means example or model that should be obeyed and followed. A person who follows another imitates their behaviour, attitude, and style. This verse shows the impotence of Sunnah(way or pat) in the lives of Muslim who practices his way in almost every aspect of life. Qoran called Prophet Mohammad "And surely you are of an exalted character"(Quran 68:4). Most important of all there is no Hadith where Mohammad had denounced such an act, nor was it mentioned as liable to be wrong in the Quran. How could a Pashtun Mesher be denounced for an action that your beloved prophet had practice?---Seem like you don’t agree with lead by example but more with do as I say not as I do. Hahaha lol

Yes but it doesn't say follow him in "everything" ; a male can't have 13 wives, but he had 13. The Wives of the Prophet were REQUIRED to face veil, but it's not required for everyone else. That's why in Islamic Law the minimum age is not "9" the age is Balagha, and Balagha can happen in variety of ages for Aisha(ra) it was 9. That's why I say she was exceptional; since most females are not developed by then. That's why it was "ordained" otherwise it would not be.

So to make a custom which forces underaged women to marry is not based on Islam; it's based on culture.

[khushal]

“swept through most of the country.” Had other aspects which included but noted limited to Faki Army/ISI actively supporting Taliban… literary running Taliban war machine—including in planning, regular frontier force soldiers and finances. Total tiredness from lawlessness, war and criminal warlords by Afghan population and most important Taliban propaganda that they will facilitate the return of Zahir shah…when the population learn the real face of Taliban rebellions against them started…a good 2 years before 2001. The simple fact they were uprooted in less than a week from all over Afghanistan says a lot how much society approves of them. The reason for Taliban survival after 10 years of war has more to do with corruption of Karzia gov and lack of alternative to channel people’s anger against these corruption official and lack of government. Once people are given another alternative to channel their discord against Karzia gov, the Taliban bubble will get burst …just as we see in Maidan Shahar, Ghazni, Kunar and other places where local people are raising against them.

Nope, the only resistance was in Mazar and Panjshir.

You must realize that the chaotic situation that leaders in Mazar(Dostom) and Panjshir(Mosood) created was going to eventually have a reaction coming from the population. At that time the people hungered for Justice and security and they were going to welcome anyone that was going to provide it no matter how extreme because the situation was extreme.

The problem with your alternative theory is that there is no real alternative and I wish there was. The commies are gone, the royalists are gone and the only ones that are left are the warlords and the mullahs and it seems people have choosen to not side with the warlords because they failed alone in the 90's and they failed with US assistance presently.

[faye]

[QUOTE=khushal;667357]exactly, your proving my point, that is why it is as old as man or even older. Animals also do good deeds, are they worried about their afterlife?[QUOTE]
then why the need for a reward at all, in the afterlife? humans ARE animals, so yes, some are.

[faye]

Prophet Muhammad(saw) is an exception to everything, and so is 'AIsha(ra) ...'Aisha(ra) was exceptional in every way, developmentally, cognitively and functionally. The Marriage of Prophet Muhammad(saw) and 'Aisha(ra) was never meant to be the "defining standard" of what is the appropriate age for marriage. Being a Prophet(saw) his actions are guided by God and thus a Pashtuns actions cannot be compared on the scale of Nabi(saw) since his marriages were alleged to be DIVINELY directed. When is a Pashtun's marriage to a 14 year old which happened to be the consequence of SWARA where she is forced to marry him against her will ordained?. Muhammad(saw) married 13 women, a Pashtun can't marry 13 women. The fact Muhammad(saw) was guided by God is precisely what makes him an exception. We're only to follow Muhammad(saw) on what HE allowed us to follow, not ANYTHING he did. if that was the case, then we could also start making Prophecies. Pashtunwali is a bunch of backwards and ignorant customs which must be abolished completely and replaced with Islamic standards.

Nothing hypocritical about it.

lol..YOUR type of islamic standards? you want pashtunwali to conform to islamic standards but you don't? that's called 'hypocrisy'.

interesting FAITH, from someone who claims to need scientific proof for everything.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

lol..YOUR type of islamic standards? you want pashtunwali to conform to islamic standards but you don't? that's called 'hypocrisy'.

interesting FAITH, from someone who claims to need scientific proof for everything.

there's no Islamic standard that marrying 9 years olds is ok; you are sick twat if you're seriously trying to defend the rape of 9 year olds. Faye I'd never thought you'd turn into a creepy pedophile apologist. Maybe lay your ego out of things for a while your desperate need to intercede in every discourse in some hopes of redemption have lead you to defend sick and heinous injustices. But who cares about other's well being when the fragile self esteem of a jaded privileged white woman is involved?

[faye]

prolific rant scim, but now i want you to show evidence, where i support the marriage or rape of 9 year olds, marriage of any underage female/ male, or rape of anyone.

your intellectual dishonesty is sliming over the brink. true desperation exposed.

chop chop...evidence dear boy!!!!!!

[RevolutionThroughReason]

I'm not sure if you're senile or have selective amnesia

but making remarks where you're trying to refute a response I made to someone trying to defend Pashtuns raping prepubescents = pedophilia apology

get help for you disgusting ego driven sickness