I hate Pashtun Urban Culture and Attitude

[Jana]

^ Don't tell me wearing tightest Punjabi clothes with Nike shoes and then dancing like a loose donkey, which is performed by those actors in Pukhto films in Pekhawer, is also brought to Pekhawer by Afghans? And besides, none gets into prostitution out of their own will and if Pekhawer was oh so against prostitution then they wouldn't go to such women in first place!

The place known for prostitution is Hira Mandi and not Pekhawer, and even a lot of Pekhawri female singers are said to be prostitutes. Cheers.

1. Nobody is talking about whether its bad or good. neither we are saying that females go into prostitution out of free will. Indeed there must be some reasons and grave situation.

2. Nobody is denying presence of prostitution in other parts of Pakistan.

3. yes you are right many singers from Peshawar and even from Swat are into the business.

4. Not even the most conservative men are 100% against prostitution even they go to prostitutes so no one is saying that Peshawar was so much against it.

5. Ask anyone in Peshawar about the word Gilumjum(you can spell it differently as well) and there you will find the reason and roots of the understanding of the word there.


So all in all it was just for information and not comparing good or bad but its also a reality that prostitution galore in Peshawar due to arrival of Persian speaking immigrants

[Shayesta]

^ No, it didn't arrive with immigrants from Persian ethnic. It was there long before practised by Pekhawri female singers, and this is a shame saying it but even Naghma (Afghan singer) is said to be in this business in Pekhawer. Afghan Tajiks went to Iran in much larger numbers than to Pekhawer, but in Iran you won't hear people say Afghans brought prostitution to Iran because they admit their own women were in this business first and it's their men who encourage these activities. Same goes for Pakistan where since a very long time ago women from prostitution went to singing or acting (or both), but because Afghans came in such big numbers people claim they were all in this business. You could say since arrival of Afghan refugees number of prostitutes increased, but to say Afghans brought it in first place is very biased of you.

[Jana]

^ No, it didn't arrive with immigrants from Persian ethnic. It was there long before practised by Pekhawri female singers, and this is a shame saying it but even Naghma (Afghan singer) is said to be in this business in Pekhawer. Afghan Tajiks went to Iran in much larger numbers than to Pekhawer, but in Iran you won't hear people say Afghans brought prostitution to Iran because they admit their own women were in this business first and it's their men who encourage these activities. Same goes for Pakistan where since a very long time ago women from prostitution went to singing or acting (or both), but because Afghans came in such big numbers people claim they were all in this business. You could say since arrival of Afghan refugees number of prostitutes increased, but to say Afghans brought it in first place is very biased of you.

Why you take everything negative?? please read my all posts again NO body said all of them were in this business i said most of Persian speaking Afghans who arrived here and this business is one of the reasons along with others that they had always been well of here as compared to Pashtun refugees.

As far as Iran is concerned Iran had limited Afghan refugees to certain camps unlike Pakistan where they are found almost in every province still.

[Shayesta]

^ I don't need to read your entire post because in one of your lasts posts you pointed that Afghan refugees brought prostitution to Pekhawer, while matter of fact is that prostitution was in Pekhawer way before that. It's a different story if you say it increased by coming of those refugees, but it definitely wasn't brought to life by them. And Iran got limited Afghan refugees? Honey, Hazaras only made around a million of Afghan refugees in Iran, let alone Heratis and Mazaris who fled to Iran in huge numbers.

[MazloomyarMaseed]

Jana

Usual blaiming others.

Hira Mandi is packed full of girls from Punjab, do Persians dance there.

Secondly, Isnt Urdu suppose to be half Persian and half Hindi?

So did the Persians bring you Urdu?

You know,I find it very ignorant when Pakistanis blaime others, as if Pakistan is so weak that it cant shut down Hira Mandi and stop producing Mureee breweee.

Kind Regards

[MazloomyarMaseed]

Also Jana

What about the Mujra Culture of Pakistan? did the Afghans bring that to you aswell? If Pakistan culture and society is so clean then why the mintue to switch on a Pakistani drama chaneel or see their tv presenters, most of them dress in western clothes, known to sleep with their producers and to top it all up they dont even wear a Hijab and speak Urdu mixed with English.

Kind Regards

[Michin Khel]

5. Ask anyone in Peshawar about the word Gilumjum(you can spell it differently as well) and there you will find the reason and roots of the understanding of the word there.


So all in all it was just for information and not comparing good or bad but its also a reality that prostitution galore in Peshawar due to arrival of Persian speaking immigrants

Shayasta khor answer the above point. Do you deny the above fact?

[MazloomyarMaseed]

Shayasta khor answer the above point. Do you deny the above fact?

What about the Indian Immigrants from India in Karachi, did they bring the Land mafia organisations with them?

[Shayesta]

Shayasta khor answer the above point. Do you deny the above fact?

Which fact? About the 'Gelumjam' word? In that case, in Afghanistan Uzbek use the word Gelumjam for 'masters'. But since I seem to be alien to the word regarding in Pekhawer, could you please explain this word on behalf of her to me? And if you gonna insist it were Persians brought prostitution to Pekhawer, then as usual you are in denial.

[Michin Khel]

Which fact? About the 'Gelumjam' word? In that case, in Afghanistan Uzbek use the word Gelumjam for 'masters'. But since I seem to be alien to the word regarding in Pekhawer, could you please explain this word on behalf of her to me? And if you gonna insist it were Persians brought prostitution to Pekhawer, then as usual you are in denial.

The Persian speaking Afghan prostitutes are called as gilum jams. Economic hardships forced many Afghan refugees towards prostitution and human trafficking that although centered around the Peshawar, reached all the major cities of pakistan. However, Peshawar is the hub of speeno pundayo walay “Gilum Jams” . These postitutes are often wrapped in their signature black frock-like dress and veils.

[Millatpal Noorzai]

As salaamu aleikoum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu,

Something that really frustrates me is the Urban culture of Kabulis and Peshawarites.

They tend to behave like really annoyiing people. Since I am from Kabul I happen to know quite allot about Urban Pashtuns.

First of all, the consider being secular as superior to being religious. They consider not praying 5 times a day as a virtue. You will see them rarely tend towards religion like rural Pashtuns do.

If you adhere to your religious morals and ethics, they tend to ridicule you and make fun of your beard, or the habit of wearing traditional clothes at social gatherings.


They often make stupid jokes about you not shaving your beard or they comment about women who appear in full veil.

Most of them are unable to say a single Pashto sentence withot mixing other languages with it.

The Kabuls can't count in Pashto. They say yak du seh char panj shash...etc. If you say woh awya, they look at you as if you spoke to them in Chinese. They don't know what a Pinzagoon is. They think it is a tribes name.

And the Peshawarite "Pathans" are even worse. They can't detach themselves from Urdu and terr derr Angreji.

All Urban Pashtuns dance like Persians and Punjabis. To them Pashtun traditional Attan is like a circus show. They look at it like they see a lion walking on its tail or something.

Yet, they speak very high of themselves. A normal average clerk from Kabul thinks he is better than a rural doctor or an engineer. If they see you dressed in traditional clothes and not in a suite and tie, they assume you are not educated.

This is why I don't like to be an Urban Pashtun. Even though I was born and raised in the city, I've never felt at home with urban types.

They are so fake and shallow. And they don't have deep natural sentiments like the typical high spirited robust Pashtuns have.

Some of my close relatives call me "Kaliwal Saheb". I consider that as a compliment.

You are not alone.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

As salaamu aleikoum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu,

Something that really frustrates me is the Urban culture of Kabulis and Peshawarites.

They tend to behave like really annoyiing people. Since I am from Kabul I happen to know quite allot about Urban Pashtuns.

First of all, the consider being secular as superior to being religious. They consider not praying 5 times a day as a virtue. You will see them rarely tend towards religion like rural Pashtuns do.

If you adhere to your religious morals and ethics, they tend to ridicule you and make fun of your beard, or the habit of wearing traditional clothes at social gatherings.

They often make stupid jokes about you not shaving your beard or they comment about women who appear in full veil.

Most of them are unable to say a single Pashto sentence withot mixing other languages with it.

The Kabuls can't count in Pashto. They say yak du seh char panj shash...etc. If you say woh awya, they look at you as if you spoke to them in Chinese. They don't know what a Pinzagoon is. They think it is a tribes name.

And the Peshawarite "Pathans" are even worse. They can't detach themselves from Urdu and terr derr Angreji.

All Urban Pashtuns dance like Persians and Punjabis. To them Pashtun traditional Attan is like a circus show. They look at it like they see a lion walking on its tail or something.

Yet, they speak very high of themselves. A normal average clerk from Kabul thinks he is better than a rural doctor or an engineer. If they see you dressed in traditional clothes and not in a suite and tie, they assume you are not educated.

This is why I don't like to be an Urban Pashtun. Even though I was born and raised in the city, I've never felt at home with urban types.

They are so fake and shallow. And they don't have deep natural sentiments like the typical high spirited robust Pashtuns have.

Some of my close relatives call me "Kaliwal Saheb". I consider that as a compliment.

I was reading Sangar's thread about how he hates urban culture, and at the end the thread turned into a blame game between some members; i will put it into my own words and hope no one gets offended.

Starting with my Pashtuns from Afghanistan (including me), who have been denying the fact that there was no prostitution in Afghanistan and we were all modest,humble,adherent to Pashtunwali etc.
My dear Afghans/Pashtuns why do we deny that women in Kabul and other major cities in Afghanistan used to wear skirts in 60s and 70s.
Why deny that we used to have stage shows similar to present day Punjabi Mujras called Sanha or Nandara in Pashto where youth will squander all their wealth on exotic dancers.
Today in Afghanistan there is more brothels than it ever existed in its history, both domestic and foreign run.

NOW ABOUT MY PASHTUNKHWA'S PASHTUNS:
Fellow Pashtuns of Pashtunkhwa why deny that in Pakistan each community in major cities had organized brothels at the time of General Yahya and then Bhutto.Most of the brothels went under the table when Zia took over and banned brothels in each street.Brothels in Pakistan were as common as having a community or recreational center in western societies.Why deny that Mujras were also held in Pashtun areas of Pashtunkhwa.Why deny that Ghulam Ahmed Bilor used to own multiple cinema theaters where XXX movies were run round the clock.

Even today state run brothels disguised as "Dar ul Amans/shelters" exist along with privately run brothels in each city and community.
Wasn't prositution made legal by Musharraf and voted in favor by Maulana FazluRehman in the shape of "Huddod Ordinance".

As a Pashtun i don't think Pashtuns in Afghanistan or Pashtunkhwa are angels.I urge you all to stop blaming it on Parsiwan/Persian Afghans in AFG and Punjabis/Sindhis in Pakistan.
Embrace that we are as much sinners as they are when it comes to this level.

Superiority and inferiority complexes in the same mentality can do wonders.

[abubaker]

1. Nobody is talking about whether its bad or good. neither we are saying that females go into prostitution out of free will. Indeed there must be some reasons and grave situation.

2. Nobody is denying presence of prostitution in other parts of Pakistan.

3. yes you are right many singers from Peshawar and even from Swat are into the business.

4. Not even the most conservative men are 100% against prostitution even they go to prostitutes so no one is saying that Peshawar was so much against it.

5. Ask anyone in Peshawar about the word Gilumjum(you can spell it differently as well) and there you will find the reason and roots of the understanding of the word there.


So all in all it was just for information and not comparing good or bad but its also a reality that prostitution galore in Peshawar due to arrival of Persian speaking immigrants

they were called gilam jam because of carpet weaving, i spent 5 years in afghan kaluni next to charsada ada where most of the carpet weaving community lived so i know what the word means it has nothing to do with prostitution

[abubaker]

how long are we going to blame others fro our own weaknesses, its childish to the least

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

^what do you mean?

There are many examples I can give to illustrate what I mean, but I will give a few examples:

First:

We thrive in that no one can be better than Pashtuns, yet we make ourselves appear helpless in order to get help from others to survive.

A second:

We stand up for "Islam," but don't practice it properly. When others practice it properly we don't humble ourselves. We are so ready to blindly defend 'our' belief of Islam, "because what we are born with is correct and can't be wrong." Yet, when it comes to defending what we believe, we say don't worry don't discuss, you can't be right. Our scholars are right.

Another classical example:

Our women are helpless, yet the man is blamed. When a man wants to marry a humble girl he is accused of not being "man" enough to handle a strong woman. Yet, these "strong" woman will never dare to marry a strong man because she knows that she will be under his rule. So, she marries a man who is not as "manly" and then ironically considers him more manly just because he is able to handle her.