Afghani and Pakistani Pashtuns

[Afghan_Soldier]

What kind of stupid idea is that ? I asked for proof in terms of a movement ! UN doesnt just randomly walk into Pakistan. And oh yeah GoP would be more than willing to do that, but how about you do the same to Afghanistan and we'll compare the number of people that would like to ditch it and join Pakistan, fair enough ?


your honestly arguing with me with that kinda back up..Here's a flashback, get schooled

One of the 4 co-signatories of the pamphlet "Now or Never" calling for an independent Pakistan, 3 were ethnic Pashtuns from the Khyber Agency.

One of the senior-most leaders in the Pakistan Movement, Abdur Rab Nishtar was a Pashtun of the Kakar tribe. He was a close confident of Muhammad ali Jinnah along with Liaqat Ali Khan and was a frequent critic of the Congress establishment in the NWFP led by Bacha Khan




yeah i hope you learned from that Mistake, because India and Russia did realise it. Then again if you had Afghanistan wouldnt be under invasion today, we live we learn right ?.

Ditch Afghansitan to join Pakistan? Are you crazy? The very idea is repulsive let alone actually being true. Even the very Taliban would slap you for that. Afghansitan is too holy. We will never.

[khyaal]

What kind of stupid idea is that ? I asked for proof in terms of a movement ! UN doesnt just randomly walk into Pakistan

Weren't these you people who would propagate that Taliban movement is actually a pashtun nationalist movement? How shortsighted you people are!

And oh yeah GoP would be more than willing to do that, but how about you do the same to Afghanistan and we'll compare the number of people that would like to ditch it and join Pakistan, fair enough ?

First you give the basic national rights to the already existing units and then keep hope of somebody joining your country. I think you people very soon forgot about the Bengladesh fiasco.

One of the 4 co-signatories of the pamphlet "Now or Never" calling for an independent Pakistan, 3 were ethnic Pashtuns from the Khyber Agency.

I'm not talking of some non-representative spoons of the British or some khan bahadurs and khan sahebs and I'm talking of the genuinely elected representatives of the NWFP assembly who passed Bannu Resolution on 21 june 1947 and demanded for Pashutnistan.

One of the senior-most leaders in the Pakistan Movement, Abdur Rab Nishtar was a Pashtun of the Kakar tribe. He was a close confident of Muhammad ali Jinnah along with Liaqat Ali Khan and was a frequent critic of the Congress establishment in the NWFP led by Bacha Khan

Abdur Rab Nishtar was just a person. Why don't you talk of the parliament?

yeah i hope you learned from that Mistake, because India and Russia did realise it. Then again if you had Afghanistan wouldnt be under invasion today, we live we learn right ?.

Afghanistan under invasion from whom and for what reason? It was the ISI which converted afghanistan and later on FATA into a den of terrorists.

[Talal]

Weren't these you people who would propagate that Taliban movement is actually a pashtun nationalist movement? How shortsighted you people are!

Are you high ? Do you understand any ground realities at all ? Taliban was a mujahideen movement. A nationalist movement in Afghanistan couldnt have gone far, since it would be hard to rally up foreigners for the cause of Pashtuns. It was a mujahideen movement since they could be motivated/recruited more efficiently.

First you give the basic national rights to the already existing units and then keep hope of somebody joining your country. I think you people very soon forgot about the Bengladesh fiasco.

We did because Bangladesh shouldnt have been a part of Pakistan in the first place, and yeah where are they now ? where did they're "independance" take them ?

I'm not talking of some non-representative spoons of the British or some khan bahadurs and khan sahebs and I'm talking of the genuinely elected representatives of the NWFP assembly who passed Bannu Resolution on 21 june 1947 and demanded for Pashutnistan.

Haha You were talking about Pashtuns, and i gave you pashtuns. And the ones your talking about did whatever they could do keep India united, they didnt ask for an independent Pashtunistan then did they ? Now they wanted independance because they knew that they wouldn't be given all the ministeries and they wouldnt be able to rule over people as per their dreams so they started yakin off about history and what not

Abdur Rab Nishtar was just a person. Why don't you talk of the parliament?

He was a leader, and leaders dont become leaders till they have masses to support them. And what about rest of the pashtuns who voted took part in all the fights. Wake up your disrespecting the pashtuns, if they wanted an independent region there was nothing that could stop them. Yet they wanted a homeland where muslims would live freely, where they would enjoy their rights. And thats what Pakistan is today, where a non pashtun city such as Karachi contains more Pashtuns then Peshawar or Kabul. This is what pashtuns fought for, not for the nightmare that you guys have turned Afghanistan into

Afghanistan under invasion from whom and for what reason? It was the ISI which converted afghanistan and later on FATA into a den of terrorists.

I'll say this and this alone Soviet Invasion, Najibullah and Karachi..look em up then come and talk to me

[Talal]

Ditch Afghansitan to join Pakistan? Are you crazy? The very idea is repulsive let alone actually being true. Even the very Taliban would slap you for that. Afghansitan is too holy. We will never.

yeah then would you like to explain why nearly 7 million Afghans moved to Pakistan during soviets and how 2 million Afghan brothers are still in Pakistan and im not sure about the figure on Iran..can you look that up ?

Your an warrior on internet only, when the bullets fly its a whole different ball game

[Talal]

^ cheers bro

[BLS_1919v2.0]

oh and plz don't talk about Kabul.

it's a shame for us Pashtuns to take pride in Kabul it really is, knowing how much they hate Pashto and only speak Dari.

they even all you Afghans, Afghan e ghul.


so wrora, khpal da khulay sara jhey ihtiyat waka, nawey member ya.

You are so ignorant it hoenstly hurts the head. Awghan e ghul is a curse that northerners use for all pashtuns, that means if you are a pashtun (doubtful, since you have switched your dialect here -. moozh to mung now, interesting), then you are an Awghane ghul. It is the same as when desis call us akhrott.

Afghan jaaana ddera manana, kho za yaw saadha sarrae yamm, zama ao khyaal pashaanth dder daasae pakhtaana shta kho lag mayussiii shuwee dee ao khwaara dee. Baayadh mung che raattol sho nu daasae pathans ba khair na wee. Ghum makawaa lar au bar yaw afghan :-)

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Also so what if three of the signatories were Pashtuns. Guess what the majority of the pashtuns rejected this concept in the 1937 election as well as the election in the 40s. Pashtunkhwa settled districts were the only area where muslim league did not gain a large number of seats. The mandate of governance was given to the Khudai Khidmathgaars. When the referendum came to the area, the Khudai Khidtmathgaars boycotted and put forward the bannu declaration. If a party who is in the majority and has the mandate to rule boycotts a referendum, what does that tell about the credibility of it? Stop this nonsense credere. In fact even with the boycotting of referendum, only 50.5 % voted for pakistan. hahahaha real mandate buddy.

[khyaal]

Are you high ? Do you understand any ground realities at all ? Taliban was a mujahideen movement.

I'm talking of the recent insurgency after the 9/11 when establishment sponsored analysts were engaged in equating Taliban with Pashtun nationalists. That way you actually wanted to malign and crush genuine nationalist movement. But now you just asked me that under what pretext the UN would come here. So my reply was that you had unwittingly provided that ground yourself. Now you got it?

A nationalist movement in Afghanistan couldnt have gone far, since it would be hard to rally up foreigners for the cause of Pashtuns. It was a mujahideen movement since they could be motivated/recruited more efficiently.

If you think that the revolution was a mistake then why are you talking of any foreign help and devising strategy for it. An unpopular revolution needs no foreign help and that too at highest magnitude. The regime would fall by itself if it really was unpopular. You have contradiction here, and unknowingly a confession that Pakistan was directly involved in sponsoring its proxies.

We did because Bangladesh shouldnt have been a part of Pakistan in the first place, and yeah where are they now ? where did they're "independance" take them ?

If it shouldn't have been the part of pakistan then how the present pakistan would come into existence. Could you explain this to me because even the formation of Muslim League was due to the Bengali leadership, and it was Bengal alone which gave clear mandate to Pakistan.

Haha You were talking about Pashtuns, and i gave you pashtuns. And the ones your talking about did whatever they could do keep India united, they didnt ask for an independent Pashtunistan then did they ?

Read something about the Bannu Resolution but you won't find it in Pakistani history or pakistani books, they are too biased.

Now they wanted independance because they knew that they wouldn't be given all the ministeries and they wouldnt be able to rule over people as per their dreams so they started yakin off about history and what not

Look I've no sympathy with opportunist pashtun politicians. What we are afraid of is our los of culture, language and history. This makes us scared of Pakistan.

He was a leader, and leaders dont become leaders till they have masses to support them. And what about rest of the pashtuns who voted took part in all the fights.

Who fought for Pakistan? Please tell something about this.

Wake up your disrespecting the pashtuns, if they wanted an independent region there was nothing that could stop them.

Yes, I admit that was there biggest mistake that they compromised in the hope of a better future but this proved to be just an illusion.

Yet they wanted a homeland where muslims would live freely, where they would enjoy their rights.

So you claim that in Pakistan people have more rights to practice their religion. But then what about these mass killing over minor religious issues.

And thats what Pakistan is today, where a non pashtun city such as Karachi contains more Pashtuns then Peshawar or Kabul.

But you know what they do in karachi? Chowkidar, shoe-shiners, menial workers. The whole pashtun nation has been turned into a nation of cheap labourers.

This is what pashtuns fought for, not for the nightmare that you guys have turned Afghanistan into

This is most fallacious statement I've heard. To blame others for ones own crimes.

I'll say this and this alone Soviet Invasion, Najibullah and Karachi..look em up then come and talk to me

Couldn't get it what you want to say here.

[Nokia_Apridy]

Originally Posted by pakistani
oh and plz don't talk about Kabul.

it's a shame for us Pashtuns to take pride in Kabul it really is, knowing how much they hate Pashto and only speak Dari.

they even all you Afghans, Afghan e ghul.


so wrora, khpal da khulay sara jhey ihtiyat waka, nawey member ya.
You are so ignorant it hoenstly hurts the head. Awghan e ghul is a curse that northerners use for all pashtuns, that means if you are a pashtun (doubtful, since you have switched your dialect here -. moozh to mung now, interesting), then you are an Awghane ghul. It is the same as when desis call us akhrott.

Afghan jaaana ddera manana, kho za yaw saadha sarrae yamm, zama ao khyaal pashaanth dder daasae pakhtaana shta kho lag mayussiii shuwee dee ao khwaara dee. Baayadh mung che raattol sho nu daasae pathans ba khair na wee. Ghum makawaa lar au bar yaw afghan :-)


Bls KUHDAY yu da manay kna ?...

daga shan har rekhtya khbra mannna gani da khu ba bya

da Ajmal baba Gela shi chay kobal ka warta cha wail cha ta zmung

mashar na ya nu zka haga oyal

Za ka spenay speanay wayam tor yam
Ao ta ka takay toro waye nu tak speen ya

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Khyaal saiba daa sarra pa pakhtano tharikh bandae na pwaegee. Pakhtunkhwa wathan kae akseeriyath da Pakistan khilaaf woo...am deenii ao am siyasii ddalae. Faqir i ipi, Bacha Khan, Khan Samad Khan ao nor da Pakistan khilaaf wo. Daa kho da Peerangyaan pa barakth pakistan sho.

[Talal]

[QUOTE=khyaal;10386]I'm talking of the recent insurgency after the 9/11 when establishment sponsored analysts were engaged in equating Taliban with Pashtun nationalists. That way you actually wanted to malign and crush genuine nationalist movement. But now you just asked me that under what pretext the UN would come here. So my reply was that you had unwittingly provided that ground yourself. Now you got it?

what the are you talking about ? Taliban was deemed a terrorist threat after everything blew up. There was no such thing as a nationalist movement, taliban were never a nationalist despite being a Pashtun majority and thats that. There is no pretext under which UN would enter Pakistan because there is no need for it to enter Pakistan. Im not too sure about it going to Afghanistan though, looks like you guys would be better of not living with the tajiks and what not
get it ?

If you think that the revolution was a mistake then why are you talking of any foreign help and devising strategy for it. An unpopular revolution needs no foreign help and that too at highest magnitude. The regime would fall by itself if it really was unpopular. You have contradiction here, and unknowingly a confession that Pakistan was directly involved in sponsoring its proxies.

I have no clue what your argument is about now but going from what you wrote you would have to be blind to not realise that Pakistani SSG's fought alongside taliban in repelling the USSR. Because it was a threat to our nation and at no cost would we let it even near our borders. The regime didnt fall, najibullah went begging to russians and had Pakistan not done what it did all of Afghanistan would have been in deeper ... than they were under the talibans


If it shouldn't have been the part of pakistan then how the present pakistan would come into existence. Could you explain this to me because even the formation of Muslim League was due to the Bengali leadership, and it was Bengal alone which gave clear mandate to Pakistan.

read the reply i made to BLS, you guys usually have the same few cheap shots that you can find so its easy to answer


Read something about the Bannu Resolution but you won't find it in Pakistani history or pakistani books, they are too biased.

Because it was a non-issue again read the Post i made to BLS and read what i said about the bannu meeting.

Look I've no sympathy with opportunist pashtun politicians. What we are afraid of is our los of culture, language and history. This makes us scared of Pakistan.

You are scared of Pakistan not the pashtuns here. They are leaders, cricketers, World champions, Chiefs of army staffs presidents..what are they famous for in Afghanistan ? what have they preserved there ?

Who fought for Pakistan? Please tell something about this.

muslims

Yes, I admit that was there biggest mistake that they compromised in the hope of a better future but this proved to be just an illusion.

...Khyber pakhtunkhwa is an illusion to you ? and whats your reality ? A country in ruins ?

So you claim that in Pakistan people have more rights to practice their religion. But then what about these mass killing over minor religious issues.

danish kaneria, jassi, i dont know whole bunch of admirals ? the cheif justice before chaudhary was a hindu. A hindu chief justice of a muslim country. what else can you hope for ?

But you know what they do in karachi? Chowkidar, shoe-shiners, menial workers. The whole pashtun nation has been turned into a nation of cheap labourers.

So do a lot of other people, and just like lot of other people Pashtuns have left they're mark on every field

This is most fallacious statement I've heard. To blame others for ones own crimes.

To blame others ? hey buddy i am not the one whose country was unable to defend itself and im taking to the internet to bad-mouth Pakistan which might i add is the only country that is trying to restore peace back in Afghanistan right now

Couldn't get it what you want to say here

??

[khyaal]

Sorry for the late reply due to constant power outage here.

[QUOTE=Credere;10412]

what the are you talking about ? Taliban was deemed a terrorist threat after everything blew up. There was no such thing as a nationalist movement, taliban were never a nationalist despite being a Pashtun majority and thats that.

Yaara, I don't know whether you ever watch Pakistani media or not. It was widely propagated on tv by Rustam shah momand, Mushahid hussain, Talat Masood etc.

There is no pretext under which UN would enter Pakistan because there is no need for it to enter Pakistan.

When it was declared that FATA had become a safe haven for terrorists, there arose an immediate chance of NATO interference which could later on be handed over to UN since FATA anyway doesn't belong to Pakistan.

ISAF is already a UN mission in Afghanistan led by NATO, and they could repeat the same thing in FATA as well and later on to Swat and Buner valley etc.

Im not too sure about it going to Afghanistan though, looks like you guys would be better of not living with the tajiks and what not get it ?

You being a patriotic Pakistani shouldn’t at least mention such things. Tajik got the opportunity during the Bonn conference to put their demands but the supported the unitary status of Afghanistan. Imagine such a scenario for Pakistan, which itself is inherently suffering from severe internal contradictions, and it will be torn into pieces at that very instant.

I have no clue what your argument is about now but going from what you wrote you would have to be blind to not realise that Pakistani SSG's fought alongside taliban in repelling the USSR.

Btw, you are confusing Mujahideen with Taliban. Taliban were a post Mujahidin phenomenon created in Jamia Haqania and Jamia Banuria by the ISI

Because it was a threat to our nation and at no cost would we let it even near our borders.

Pakistan was created on the promise (Sir Zafarullah and Mr.Jinnah being its lobbyists) that it will always be in the service of the West, so it was understandable that with the immense power of the west you people certainly would offer some resistance.

The regime didnt fall, najibullah went begging to russians and had Pakistan not done what it did all of Afghanistan would have been in deeper ... than they were under the talibans.

Lol. He offered the greatest sacrifice ever. I even know the conspiracies behind the killing of Dr. Najib in whose killing ISI was directly involved becuase Taliban had refused to accept his killing.

read the reply i made to BLS, you guys usually have the same few cheap shots that you can find so its easy to answer

OK I'll read it but then you will weaken your argument of a separate country for the muslim of subcontinent, because india already had more muslims there, then if you include the population of Bengal, Pakistan would have lost all its justification for its creation. And this would also provide an opportunity for the People of NWFP to have their own state.

Because it was a non-issue again read the Post i made to BLS and read what i said about the bannu meeting.

Who told you it was a non-issue. It was the compromising attitude of Bacha khan which subsided the movement.

. They are leaders, cricketers, World champions, Chiefs of army staffs presidents..what are they famous for in Afghanistan ? what have they preserved there ?

But so were we during the British. Do you know that it was compulsory for even a British ICS officer to learn pashto when he would be posted in pashtun land. We enjoyed more autonomy under the British. We had more land under the British while you later on occupied Attock and Mianwali.

All our water and power resources were occupied by Pakistan which were under our control during the British rule.

Anyhow there is long list of extortion and coersion under Pakistani regimes. So all of you claims of proving pakistan a benevolent state for Pashtuns are just a bundle of lies and nothing more.

muslims

Which Muslims?

Khyber pakhtunkhwa is an illusion to you ? and whats your reality ? A country in ruins ?

Let us see what happens to it.

danish kaneria, jassi, i dont know whole bunch of admirals ? the cheif justice before chaudhary was a hindu. A hindu chief justice of a muslim country. what else can you hope for ?

But according to Aitizaz Ahsan there were 29 percent non-muslim minority in Pakistan most of whom you forced to flee from here. Such was your religiou tolerance.

So do a lot of other people, and just like lot of other people Pashtuns have left they're mark on every field

That was n't some blessing of Pakistan. Even during the British rule there had been famous player like Hashim khan, famous actors like Dilip kumar, Madhobala etc.(but of course no knightedhood winners like your famous muslim leaguers). So Pakistan proved no miracle for Pashtuns.

To blame others ? hey buddy i am not the one whose country was unable to defend itself and im taking to the internet to bad-mouth Pakistan which might i add is the only country that is trying to restore peace back in Afghanistan right now

I highly suspect this claim of yours that Pakistan an erstwhile enemy of Pashtun/afghans all of a sudden has turned into a well wisher of them.

[Talal]

Sorry for the late reply due to constant power outage here.

Yaara, I don't know whether you ever watch Pakistani media or not. It was widely propagated on tv by Rustam shah momand, Mushahid hussain, Talat Masood etc.

your basing your arguments on Pakistani politicians ? thats the weakest thing you could do. We hate our politicians, they are nothing but liars and theives

When it was declared that FATA had become a safe haven for terrorists, there arose an immediate chance of NATO interference which could later on be handed over to UN since FATA anyway doesn't belong to Pakistan.
ISAF is already a UN mission in Afghanistan led by NATO, and they could repeat the same thing in FATA as well and later on to Swat and Buner valley etc.

FATA belongs to Pakistan, look up the abbreviation. Obama said during one of his campaign speeches that he might go after FATA and look at the reaction it had just from within the US. They would not dare set foot on our soil and they know that, This is Pakistan your talking about not Iran Iraq or Afghanistan. Even the drone strikes are with the permission of GoP and that too because they are a necessity and have proved more than useful

You being a patriotic Pakistani shouldn’t at least mention such things. Tajik got the opportunity during the Bonn conference to put their demands but the supported the unitary status of Afghanistan. Imagine such a scenario for Pakistan, which itself is inherently suffering from severe internal contradictions, and it will be torn into pieces at that very instant.

How ?? I dont like tajiks they have extremely hateful sentiments towards us Pakistanis and i therefore dont like them


Btw, you are confusing Mujahideen with Taliban. Taliban were a post Mujahidin phenomenon created in Jamia Haqania and Jamia Banuria by the ISI

taliban are mujahideen, taliban means student. Taliban couldnt have achieved what they achieved on a nationalistic view. They needed a bigger point where they could unite with other muslims and that was a threat to Islam within Afghanistan


Pakistan was created on the promise (Sir Zafarullah and Mr.Jinnah being its lobbyists) that it will always be in the service of the West, so it was understandable that with the immense power of the west you people certainly would offer some resistance.

That "some resistance" broke down an entire empire before it could even reach our borders

Lol. He offered the greatest sacrifice ever. I even know the conspiracies behind the killing of Dr. Najib in whose killing ISI was directly involved becuase Taliban had refused to accept his killing.

I couldnt care less who was behind it, to Pakistan he was a bigger threat than Russians

OK I'll read it but then you will weaken your argument of a separate country for the muslim of subcontinent, because india already had more muslims there, then if you include the population of Bengal, Pakistan would have lost all its justification for its creation. And this would also provide an opportunity for the People of NWFP to have their own state.

read em, and also read on how many muslims migrated to Pakistan. We didnt get Pakistan on bengals base we got it on muslim majority and the majority that was living in hindu majority areas was accounted for. That was the justification for Pakistan

Who told you it was a non-issue. It was the compromising attitude of Bacha khan which subsided the movement.

Bacha Khan was the leader, i have nothing more to add than that

But so were we during the British. Do you know that it was compulsory for even a British ICS officer to learn pashto when he would be posted in pashtun land. We enjoyed more autonomy under the British. We had more land under the British while you later on occupied Attock and Mianwali.

same goes for a British in any region in India, they specifically were carefull about the Pashtun lands because they intended to defend against an Invasion from Afghanistan

All our water and power resources were occupied by Pakistan which were under our control during the British rule.

Anyhow there is long list of extortion and coersion under Pakistani regimes. So all of you claims of proving pakistan a benevolent state for Pashtuns are just a bundle of lies and nothing more.

Pakistan has that what rightfully belongs to Pakistan, if you want to contest that fact. There's always our border you can fight for it

Which Muslims?

US MUSLIMS

Let us see what happens to it.

i was talking about Afghanistan and yes im lookin at whats happening to it

But according to Aitizaz Ahsan there were 29 percent non-muslim minority in Pakistan most of whom you forced to flee from here. Such was your religiou tolerance.

DID you even read the history ? it was decided that the hindu minorities in Pakistan and the muslim minorities in India would be allowed to relocate or did you foget about that ?

That was n't some blessing of Pakistan. Even during the British rule there had been famous player like Hashim khan, famous actors like Dilip kumar, Madhobala etc.(but of course no knightedhood winners like your famous muslim leaguers). So Pakistan proved no miracle for Pashtuns.

yes it wasnt because we dont distinguish on the basis of ethnicity. We see a pakistani where you see a Pashtun.

I highly suspect this claim of yours that Pakistan an erstwhile enemy of Pashtun/afghans all of a sudden has turned into a well wisher of them.

Pakistan was never there enemy, had it been so there wouldnt 7 million afghans in Pakistan today. Pakistan despite its economy has pledged more than 500 million dollars worth of project into Afghanistan

[khyaal]

Rustam shah momand is not a politician, he was an ambassador to Afghanistan during Taliban regime.

And Talat Masood is your favourite retired Army Lt.General and a strategic analyst.

[Talal]

^ Definition of Taliban

The Taliban, also Taleban, is a Sunni Islamist political movement that governed Afghanistan from 1996 until they were overthrown in late 2001 during Operation Enduring Freedom. It has regrouped since 2004 and revived as a strong insurgency movement governing at the local level and fighting a guerrilla war against the governments of Afghanistan, Pakistan, and the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF)

~ Wiki

Show me something that classifies Taliban as a nationalistic movement and why the hell a nationalist movement for Pashtuns be headed by an arab lol