Afghani and Pakistani Pashtuns

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Nazia Pashtuns themselves never really formulated a proper policy for their language. How shameful is it when Bilour (who I am no fan of) considered pashto as a language for the province and rightly criticized urdu, and a so called pashtun parliamentarians were against it. Dagha da Pakhtaano hal dae. The reality is that the division of pashtuns/afghans in 1893 was a huge set back. Until and unless we are not properly united, or at least have an autonomous province within Pakistan, all these hopes of standardizing pashto, or history etc are a long long way off.

BTW we are all pashtuns/afghans. Passports do not matter. Also, Afghans from Afghanistan and pashtunkhwa rightfully criticize Pakistan. It has adopted (along with Americans) one of the most destructive policies against pashtuns. They do not hate Pashtuns though or pashtunkhwa, most of the time when they hate on pakistan, it is east of the attock, not Pashtunkhwa.

[Master Khan]

Well they shouldn't be in Punjab in the first place.

[kunar1990]

I don't hate pashtun on the other side of the border. What I can't stand is pashtuns refusing the fact that we all are Afghans! I cannot stand pashtun who want pakistna and not our unity - who don't want us to become one again!!!

Har sa chi woki - kuna pa sra tabai ham kede, no pakhtun pakhtun dai ow panjabai panjabai dai. Yow dasi wakht wo chi panjabian zmung da babagano gholamanan wo - nan saba da hamagho babagano masyan da panjabiano chaplosi kawi - afsos afsos.

[Master Khan]

I don't hate pashtun on the other side of the border. What I can't stand is pashtuns refusing the fact that we all are Afghans! I cannot stand pashtun who want pakistna and not our unity - who don't want us to become one again!!!

Har sa chi woki - kuna pa sra tabai ham kede, no pakhtun pakhtun dai ow panjabai panjabai dai. Yow dasi wakht wo chi panjabian zmung da babagano gholamanan wo - nan saba da hamagho babagano masyan da panjabiano chaplosi kawi - afsos afsos.

Wrora Don't worry, The day will come when Pashtun unit.
Kho munga Punjabian Gholame nakoi

[Dinosaur Khan]

Unlike Balochs, there is no military or political struggle going on by pakistani pashtuns to get independence or join afghanistan. which clearly indicate that pashtuns are much assimilated and integrated into pakistan.
Believe me if pashtuns ever decide to break away from pakistan, they can easily do it unlike hard struggling balochs or bengalis in 1971. But they are not motivated to do so.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Unlike Balochs, there is no military or political struggle going on by pakistani pashtuns to get independence or join afghanistan. which clearly indicate that pashtuns are much assimilated and integrated into pakistan.
Believe me if pashtuns ever decide to break away from pakistan, they can easily do it unlike hard struggling balochs or bengalis in 1971. But they are not motivated to do so.

Jodigul, you act as if Pashtuns can even do this. Look at it this way, our areas are now engulfed in a proxy battle, and the Pakistani state put forward talibanization which stunts any legitimate national movement. So now how will ask for your rights when on one hand they brought up agents and are taking your society and on the other you have f-16s bombing your areas. Actually pashtuns/afghans have moved to start thinking about their rights. Look at it this, 10 years ago, most pashtuns would not blame the army or intel agencies, now many are aware of the actions of ISI/MI,etc. You can't expect people to jump on a nationalist bandwagon...these things take time.

Pashtuns, I would say, are far less assimilated than they were say in the 90s. In fact do a little research yourself jodigul. Check out FATA, PATA and other areas of Pashtunkhwa. Then go across attock. You will see that there is a wide gap.

Also, just read back to recent history. Bosniaks, and croats were more assimilated in Yugoslavia than we pashtuns are in pakistan. They all spoke the same language, relatively similar cultures, attitudes, foods, etc. However, when the state collapsed (Yugoslavia too had a large army, and huge bureaucracy), people were engulfed in a civil war.

[Dinosaur Khan]

Pashtuns are inclined more towards religoun than pashtun nationalism, and it is natural not installed.
Talibans are not anti-pakistani and still they shake pakistan to very core. operations in Waziristan cost thousands of soldiers, even more than in indo-pak wars. If all pashtuns take arms, it will be a matter of weaks of collapse of pakistani state.

[Dinosaur Khan]

I agree with you that pashtuns are now less assimilated in pakistan than they were in 90s. The reason is increase in education, awareness, media and military operations. But still the change is not that significant or expecting.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Pashtuns are inclined more towards religoun than pashtun nationalism, and it is natural not installed.
Talibans are not anti-pakistani and still they shake pakistan to very core. operations in Waziristan cost thousands of soldiers, even more than in indo-pak wars. If all pashtuns take arms, it will be a matter of weaks of collapse of pakistani state.

Jodigul, religion is not the same as talibanization. Faqir i ipi was religious, but he was against the concept of Pakistan. Its not the issue. The issue is that our society has been sidelined in a very different way these past 10-15 years. Now you are seeing direct ramifications -> war, refugee life, bombings, etc. Then you will see the long term aspects of such policies. Taliban are all not one entity, and as far as the state is concerned a portion of them are anti-state..so either way you look at it, its an us v them concept. Either the state or TTP right?
Jodigul, like I just said, you can't hide away the ramifications of policy...the assimlation has been grossly stunted, it will take lots of financial and political will to bring pashtunkhwa back to what it was in the 90s, and even then it was nothing compared to panjab or sindh. Also, pashtun nationalism or whatever movement is dependent on the situation of Afghanistan. When Afghanistan lost its army and state in the 90s, pashtun nationalism weakened if not lay dormant...once that state is back to stability, you will see shifts. Shifts in trade, investments and job opportunities for Pashtuns.

[Dinosaur Khan]

Jodigul, religion is not the same as talibanization.

I think a Talib is nothing but extreme version of a religous pashtun.

According to your thoughts, in between pakistanization and talibanization , which is more lethal and poisonous to pashtun nation? and which one be get rid of first?

[BLS_1919v2.0]

I think a Talib is nothing but extreme version of a religous pashtun.

According to your thoughts, in between pakistanization and talibanization , which is more lethal and poisonous to pashtun nation? and which one be get rid of first?

Well look at it this way....without the state agencies then there wont be talibs. Cut the snake at its head.

[Dinosaur Khan]

Well look at it this way....without the state agencies then there wont be talibs. Cut the snake at its head.

State agencies have surely reproduced this snake but now this snake is capable of acting on its own.
If pashtuns get freedom from pakistan, their new country will have to face powerful talibans and chances of taliban success are great. Then our life will revolve around beards, whips and hadood.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

State agencies have surely reproduced this snake but now this snake is capable of acting on its own.
If pashtuns get freedom from pakistan, their new country will have to face powerful talibans and chances of taliban success are great. Then our life will revolve around beards, whips and hadood.

I don't think so. The only reason the taliban that you know today are here is due to Pakistan's strategic game, and those that created their own talibs were in retaliation to Pakistan sharree game. So what would possess them to support them anymore? You have to understand taliban although all showing allegiance to Mullah Umar are fragmented into many groups...so once the snake is cut, no one in the region has any interest in keeping them going? Who would want to keep them there?

Also, BTW if taliban is as powerful to snap back at its master, do you think Pakistan could eliminate them anyways? Is that even a cogent scenario.

[Pakhtunzai]

Well they shouldn't be in Punjab in the first place.

wrora the main reason some pakhtuns are in punjab is because of business and money..this is the main reason my family have ended up there too.

[JAMALUDEEN]

Sallamuna Khalko. Ok, let me start this by asking a question, "Why do Afghani Pashtun hate Pakistani Pashtun so much?" If not the Pakistani Pashtun, why the citizens of Pakistan? It seems as if we Pashtuns are so much into our own "Pashtunwali", or "Pakhtunkhwa" or what ever you want to call it, that we don't even care about other people, forget people, but not even our own Muslim brothers and sisters.

Back to topic: From childhood, Ive been watching Pashtun videos, and indeed we are the worriers of all times. But the awful part is, when I scroll down to see the comments, there is so much hate. So much hate from Afghanis to Pakistanis, and from Pakistanis to Afghanis. The question is, Why? We are all MUSLIMS... Id like to here your opinions, please share your thoughts. Thank you.


@Admin: Feel free to change location of thread.

Your views are mostly contradictory.