What are real Pakhtana values?

[unknownprince]

agreed.

There is a growing number of people who are returning towards Islam and their culture.

There is no need to target them for that,

If people think shaking bodies and dancing is progress, I think that is backwards

[emkhan]

kakargirl, you dont worry these all have no respect for others niether they get from others.
They are following the western way of life, thats why they are blind.
They are on exile from their pukhtun culture... Nobody id ready to keep these girls among themselves thats why they are OUT.

[unknownprince]

I know in California, there are pashtun girls who wear mini-skirts and boys who who make their eyebrows so thin like women do.

But this is a small number.

Astagfurillah, there is also a blatant dating scene (going out to movies, shaking bodies on the streets) going on, but this again is limited to the few weirdos.

[Catya Sher]

^Funny!
This is really important that you guys are stepping in to expose the reality of what's going on with the liberal women on this Forum.

Their COARSENESS is shown by the way they speak here and how they treat
nice girls like Kakargirl or Qunduz.

For, it's really necessary that the world see that the bulk of vocal women here on PF ---
HATEFUL SOULS bearing huge chips on their shoulders against good, righteous members ---
do NOT in any way represent the culture of Afghans/Pashtuns or anyone at all of integrity and quality.

I do know that there are some silent women members who feel this same way but may not wish to
fight publicly the flow of venom.

So you men have to assert yourselves on the behalf of all, silent observers and those who bravely try to
defend themselves in posts, such as Kakargirl does.

[unknownprince]

Originally Posted by Roshina
For a "true" Pashtana, Kakargirl guley, you sure are too insecure. Someone will express disagreement with you, and you'll threaten to leave. I can't recount how many times you've actually done this.

Just live with the fact that all Pukhtuns don't live the same way you do -- and neither do they want to, if they don't already do it. You can think that that makes you more authentic, more real, more true, etc., that's fine; you don't, however, have the power to make others feel inferior as Pukhtuns just because they practice Pukhtunwali differently than you do. (I honestly don't even think you choose to live your kind of life, because your posts scream frustration with the lifestyle your brothers have chosen for you, but that's none of my business, so I won't comment further. I do wish you happiness and peace, though.)

"frustration"?
"insecurity"?

Look who is talking?
Miss. I-wanna-rebel-against-patriarchy-by-puffing-white-clouds-from-a-phallic-object.

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah. Heard it all before.

"Why does my mom let my brother be free to do whatever but restricts my movements? Why does pashtun society not allow women to go live alone for the sake of education? Why am I the object of my brother's ghairat?" you whinny lil sissy..

you are just hating on her because she is the kind of girl your parents wish you were!

ms.feminism from the 60s here to rewrite "afghaniyat"...

really good post. This is exactly how I feel on this 'I wanna rebel" type of attitude I think is self-destructive. What is the alternative to a pashtun way of life. I think every women in the world would love to be protected, but no other culture affords this to them.

Women here in the west are objectified beyond limits, and they think that walking around half-naked is the definition of feminism?? Men call them the worse names. Women in the West need freedom too from being only considered as objects that dance on TV like Lady Gaga.

[Catya Sher]

I also thought that Alchemist's post was so perceptive.
Espeicially this line:
"you are just hating on her because she is the kind of girl your parents wish you were!"

Where is the female member who would write a school paper on this subject to explore the concept further?
It's SO on target.
I know when I used to stay with friends from college for Thanksgiving vacations, their parents would directly say to the daughter :
"Why are you not like her? She occupies herself helping out, but you are lazily sitting there ; she has a lot of plans and motivation but you are lackadaisical " etc.
The daughters hated hearing that and hence held a little grudge.

Clearly here it's WAY worse, as these are not friends of kakargirl but
veiled enemies.
As she implied, the saccharinely lovey dovery words of Ferocious
drip with condescension ....

.....or is it snake venom ?!

Alchemist caught too what others missed about that cigarette.
I knew that avatar was truly disgusting but i couldn't think of why -- !

[Roshina]

I'm utterly fascinated by something here. Note the kinds of response that Kakargirl is receiving. The positive ones--i.e., you're great; keep it up--are coming only from Pukhtun men and from non-Pukhtun women. (I wonder what that suggests.) The non-supportive ones--i.e., thank you for your opinion, guley, but not all Pukhtun women wanna live your way--come from Pukhtun women only. (I wonder what that means, too.)

No, that's not to say that other people's opinions, especially Pukhtun men's, don't matter. I think they are as important as Pukhtun women's, when it comes to how we should live our lives. But I find the observation very interesting, and I think it has something seriously important to offer those of us who wish to look a bit deeper into the matter of why Pukhtun women, wherever they are, live the way they do.

And, Kakargirl guley, I strongly suggest you stop viewing yourself as a victim. You're not a victim unless you start acting like one. Name one person here who has called your or your views or your lifestyle backward. I have re-read every single post in this thread and in all the ones where you whine about how people think you're backward or cave girl just because you are a "strict traditional Pukhtana," but I've never found any such post. Must you view yourself as a victim? And must you defend yourself so much? But why? If people don't understand why you are the way you are, let it be; you don't understand them either, so it's all mutual.

Kindly accept the fact that different Pukhtuns prefer different things for themselves. No one here, from what I've seen, has told you to adopt their style ... have they? In fact, most have made it a point to remind you that by all means, do as you see fit, but just don't go around bashing the ones who disagree with your preferences.

In the long run, what I think about you and what you think about me and what others think of others doesn't matter at all. So don't take these things so seriously that you feel offended. There's far more to life than whether someone covers her face or not.

[kakargirl]

roshina im not a victim but i dont want people staying quiet either i called my self those things because iv seen them some where i dont have to mention where but someone on here knows what im talking about. so speak your minds .

[Catya Sher]

Darkina
In FACT, many of you are absolutely NOT "Pukhtun women" -
it's time to "out" the many fakes over here !!!

So that argument doesn't WORK.

Try again.

Further, the above is an attempt to negate the views of men, be they
Pashtun or any particular group.
Why ? Because the men have authority and their opinions MATTER.

The tactic of Ms. Darkina here is simply to shoo them off such threads as this.

That is the overall tactic of the
Feminist movement: to make men cower before women and
be eternally on the defensive.

I say, let them speak clearly their minds, as they have shrewd observations
as amply demonstrated by the men here on PF and this thread in particular!

[emkhan]

I'm utterly fascinated by something here. Note the kinds of response that Kakargirl is receiving. The positive ones--i.e., you're great; keep it up--are coming only from Pukhtun men and from non-Pukhtun women. (I wonder what that suggests.) The non-supportive ones--i.e., thank you for your opinion, guley, but not all Pukhtun women wanna live your way--come from Pukhtun women only. (I wonder what that means, too.)

No, that's not to say that other people's opinions, especially Pukhtun men's, don't matter. I think they are as important as Pukhtun women's, when it comes to how we should live our lives. But I find the observation very interesting, and I think it has something seriously important to offer those of us who wish to look a bit deeper into the matter of why Pukhtun women, wherever they are, live the way they do.

And, Kakargirl guley, I strongly suggest you stop viewing yourself as a victim. You're not a victim unless you start acting like one. Name one person here who has called your or your views or your lifestyle backward. I have re-read every single post in this thread and in all the ones where you whine about how people think you're backward or cave girl just because you are a "strict traditional Pukhtana," but I've never found any such post. Must you view yourself as a victim? And must you defend yourself so much? But why? If people don't understand why you are the way you are, let it be; you don't understand them either, so it's all mutual.

Kindly accept the fact that different Pukhtuns prefer different things for themselves. No one here, from what I've seen, has told you to adopt their style ... have they? In fact, most have made it a point to remind you that by all means, do as you see fit, but just don't go around bashing the ones who disagree with your preferences.

In the long run, what I think about you and what you think about me and what others think of others doesn't matter at all. So don't take these things so seriously that you feel offended. There's far more to life than whether someone covers her face or not.

your avatar pic is not compatible with your views and thinking.
kakargirl is true pashtoon girl. The rest are pseudo pashtoon girls who are on exile from their pashtoon society and dont know anything about their values.
Their everything is for show off and sale....

[kakargirl]

I'm utterly fascinated by something here. Note the kinds of response that Kakargirl is receiving. The positive ones--i.e., you're great; keep it up--are coming only from Pukhtun men and from non-Pukhtun women. (I wonder what that suggests.) The non-supportive ones--i.e., thank you for your opinion, guley, but not all Pukhtun women wanna live your way--come from Pukhtun women only. (I wonder what that means, too.)

No, that's not to say that other people's opinions, especially Pukhtun men's, don't matter. I think they are as important as Pukhtun women's, when it comes to how we should live our lives. But I find the observation very interesting, and I think it has something seriously important to offer those of us who wish to look a bit deeper into the matter of why Pukhtun women, wherever they are, live the way they do.

And, Kakargirl guley, I strongly suggest you stop viewing yourself as a victim. You're not a victim unless you start acting like one. Name one person here who has called your or your views or your lifestyle backward. I have re-read every single post in this thread and in all the ones where you whine about how people think you're backward or cave girl just because you are a "strict traditional Pukhtana," but I've never found any such post. Must you view yourself as a victim? And must you defend yourself so much? But why? If people don't understand why you are the way you are, let it be; you don't understand them either, so it's all mutual.

Kindly accept the fact that different Pukhtuns prefer different things for themselves. No one here, from what I've seen, has told you to adopt their style ... have they? In fact, most have made it a point to remind you that by all means, do as you see fit, but just don't go around bashing the ones who disagree with your preferences.

In the long run, what I think about you and what you think about me and what others think of others doesn't matter at all. So don't take these things so seriously that you feel offended. There's far more to life than whether someone covers her face or not.

i answered what manzareh wror asked do i think people are liberated i said yes , so if that got dragged out i had to answer its not defending my self its elaborating why i think that, its not hard to guess roshina what that means it means on the forum the women are like you which you should be happy about ,and some are quiet but not like you ,but in reality in the real world we still have women like me conservative women who make up the majority .

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Roshina, that is the thing though right? I mean you are an American Pashtun and can understand what my sisters describe to me as the unending clashes between the hijabis and the nonhijabiis and the reckless language that goes back and forth (e.g. "q-tip head... ninja... easy... etc." So instead of bringing the girls together, you guys are undoing your gains by lashing out at eachother. I think it was Hillary Clinton that once noted that the biggest threat to feminist advancement comes from women themselves and not men due to the lack of a unified front (even in the workplace). I see this same sort of behavior at work where nurses and female doctors nearly claw eachothers eyes out.

The evidence based challenge, and I have tried to go through the evidence to no avail... is to find a single statement where Kakargirl has targeted any of the girls here with her statements.

That is what I find troubling... if Kakargirl singled one of you out and said: "Hey ho, put on the burkaa, I am a superior entity to you." then I would see where you are coming from with a counter strike. But in all of her collected statements to date, she never mentions a single girl's name on here. She just vouches for her own identity.

And then, for some reason that I do not get, you guys all gang up and start trying to throttle her because you assume she is speaking about you. Maybe its my bias per our blood relations... but I do see some sort of odd responses there.

I mean look at the debate between her and roadrunner... it only went personal after ~ 100 messages. Even then, when kakargirl made a statement regarding how she lives her life, its not like roadrunner took her commentary as an affront to the way his sisters live their lives.

And its a sad shame, because you should be welcoming a younger girl into your fold and trying to make her feel comfortable speaking her mind instead of assuming she is targeting you.

To date, she has not stated a single thing privately to me regarding any ill will toward the females.

But out of all the women here, the one that is repeatedly attacked is her.

[Roshina]

My observation still holds true, it seems. And I still think it's very interesting. Very.

Note the kinds of response that Kakargirl is receiving. The positive ones--i.e., you're great; keep it up--are coming only from Pukhtun men and from non-Pukhtun women. (I wonder what that suggests.) The non-supportive ones--i.e., thank you for your opinion, guley, but not all Pukhtun women wanna live your way--come from Pukhtun women only. (I wonder what that means, too.)

[Alchemist]

I'm utterly fascinated by something here. Note the kinds of response that Kakargirl is receiving. The positive ones--i.e., you're great; keep it up--are coming only from Pukhtun men and from non-Pukhtun women. (I wonder what that suggests.) The non-supportive ones--i.e., thank you for your opinion, guley, but not all Pukhtun women wanna live your way--come from Pukhtun women only. (I wonder what that means, too.)

No, that's not to say that other people's opinions, especially Pukhtun men's, don't matter. I think they are as important as Pukhtun women's, when it comes to how we should live our lives. But I find the observation very interesting, and I think it has something seriously important to offer those of us who wish to look a bit deeper into the matter of why Pukhtun women, wherever they are, live the way they do.

And, Kakargirl guley, I strongly suggest you stop viewing yourself as a victim. You're not a victim unless you start acting like one. Name one person here who has called your or your views or your lifestyle backward. I have re-read every single post in this thread and in all the ones where you whine about how people think you're backward or cave girl just because you are a "strict traditional Pukhtana," but I've never found any such post. Must you view yourself as a victim? And must you defend yourself so much? But why? If people don't understand why you are the way you are, let it be; you don't understand them either, so it's all mutual.

Kindly accept the fact that different Pukhtuns prefer different things for themselves. No one here, from what I've seen, has told you to adopt their style ... have they? In fact, most have made it a point to remind you that by all means, do as you see fit, but just don't go around bashing the ones who disagree with your preferences.

In the long run, what I think about you and what you think about me and what others think of others doesn't matter at all. So don't take these things so seriously that you feel offended. There's far more to life than whether someone covers her face or not.

stop whining.

srsly.

[ScimitarXEdge]

My observation still holds true, it seems. And I still think it's very interesting. Very.

Your observation does appear to hold true; but what is really the maker or breaker here; is what are the nuances as to why that is. This is something I think needs to be explored before we can qualify the observation as meritable.