AٰLCOHOL: Should be Allowed for Pashtuns

[IamDZJ]

by the time we get to jinat, we have already redeemed ourselves. as unknown said, the wines that are promised to us in heaven and the wine that is created by human beings is assumed to be the same thing.
should or should it not be available to pashtuns?? it already is available to pashtuns. i think what you mean to say is that the consumption of it should be allowed in public. i think that would make for a good challenge however it could ruin our society further. at least now they do it in their homes and stay there...

[Shehbaz Khan]

The topic seems some thing funny but I think it carries a very deep notion that why Alcohol is allowed in Heavens but not in this world. If some thing is bad then it should be bad here and there. Here only a sip is forbidden but there we have canals of wine and alcohol!

Now, what do you know about the Alcohol of Paradaise, Jannat? As many scholars say that the particular alcohol that we will be having there will not be having any side affects. That won't be able to intoxicate us. We won't loose our sense or conscious by having that alcohol.

Murder, telling lie, corruption etc are evils and not allowed neither here nor in hereafter then why alcohol is allowed in one world but not in the other world. I cant digest it.

Yes, they are all crimes and you see thats why you don't find that there. But now you also have to look at the fact that what will be the need of Murdering, telling lies or corruption etc in paradaise? People over here in this world do such evil acts for a reason whether good or bad they justify their crime. Some want power, some require wealth. So there in paradise there is no need for such things as everyone will be getting equal rights and enjoying equal status.

Also I cant understand why in Quran there are contradictory verses about alcohol. As it was forbidden for Muslims to attend to prayers while intoxicated (4:43). Then a later verse was revealed which said that alcohol contains some good and some evil, but the evil is greater than the good (2:219). This was the next step in turning people away from consumption of it. Finally, "intoxicants and games of chance" were called "abominations of Satan's handiwork," intended to turn people away from God and forget about prayer, and Muslims were ordered to abstain (5:90-91).

Now, Islam is a logical religion. You see there was a society where Alcohol was common very common. Everybody used to have alcohol and roam around like that so Islam wanted them to get away from this evil. So it went step wise. Like if a kid today wants to be a doctor you can't directly send him to the Medical College.. First he has to pass the secondary level than the intermediate level and finally the medical college. So here also Islam is going step wise towards the solution first telling them not to touch alcohol or don't go towards prayers while they are intoxicated. If you see in context you will come to know that this verse was revealed when a Sahabi (I guess it was Hazrat Ali RA) was drunk and he was offering Salaah so he recited a verse wrongly. So Allah revealed that when you are intoxicated you should stay away from prayers. The Ahadith say that many Sahaba totally left Alcohol after this verse was revealed. Than Allah (swt) tells them that stay away from Alcohol as it's evil. There is some good in alcohol as for medical purposes (I don't know science) it's used but still it's evil and you should stay away from it, hence making their minds not to touch alcohol and stay away from it and finally Islam is banning it and sealing it's way so that tomorow nobody can give an excuse by saying that all the intoxicated things are prohibited.

Every word of Quran is to be followed then if some one does not drink before prayers but drinks later then is it not acting upon the Quran!
Does it mean excess of every thing is bad but in a controlled way alcohol may be allowed!

Also I have read that Muslims don't drink alcohol, with the exception of those who are of the Hanafi school of thought in Sunni Islam, and they abstain from wine but drink vodka and non-grape-based alcoholic drinks.

Yes every single word of the Quran needs to be followed therefore one must not even think about having alcohol. Islam says follow the Prophet PBUH, Now can you quote an incident when the Prophet PBUH Na-uzubill-Ah had alcohol? NO!! So this clearifies your doubts about the issue I suppose.

I don't know much about the Hanafi School Of thought as I am not too much into the sects but I know one thing not a single school of thought allows any type of Alcohol. If someone is taking alcohol it's his/her personal choice for which surely they will be punished on the day of judgement.

[Shehbaz Khan]

Da che za nasha nasha yam da zama da weeni josh day,
Ka sharaabo ki nasha way nu botal ba gadedo ..

I love the way they use 'Sharab/Alcohol' in Pakhtu Poetry !!

[کیش]

Osho
Theirs a Hadith in Bukhari tats explains the reason why it got banned. It had to do with the prophets uncle, Hamza. All try to find it for yea.

[unknownprince]

Islamic practice can be backed up by not only moral principles, but scientific and psychological principles too.

[ScimitarXEdge]

The topic seems some thing funny but I think it carries a very deep notion that why Alcohol is allowed in Heavens but not in this world. If some thing is bad then it should be bad here and there. Here only a sip is forbidden but there we have canals of wine and alcohol!

Murder, telling lie, corruption etc are evils and not allowed neither here nor in hereafter then why alcohol is allowed in one world but not in the other world. I cant digest it.

Also I cant understand why in Quran there are contradictory verses about alcohol. As it was forbidden for Muslims to attend to prayers while intoxicated (4:43). Then a later verse was revealed which said that alcohol contains some good and some evil, but the evil is greater than the good (2:219). This was the next step in turning people away from consumption of it. Finally, "intoxicants and games of chance" were called "abominations of Satan's handiwork," intended to turn people away from God and forget about prayer, and Muslims were ordered to abstain (5:90-91).

Every word of Quran is to be followed then if some one does not drink before prayers but drinks later then is it not acting upon the Quran!
Does it mean excess of every thing is bad but in a controlled way alcohol may be allowed!

Also I have read that Muslims don't drink alcohol, with the exception of those who are of the Hanafi school of thought in Sunni Islam, and they abstain from wine but drink vodka and non-grape-based alcoholic drinks.

No because the ruling on that verse has been made "mansoukh" (abrogated) by the previous verse that you have written.

Secondly in my school of thought "Mu'tazilah" the concept of wine consumption is mutashabbah (allegorical), and not literal, it refers to spiritual ecstacy or Jadhb, not sukr. the wine of the Earth is sukr, the wine of Heaven is Jadhb. It essentially means we will be fulfilled spiritually our souls will be content by our intimate connection to Allah 'izza wa jal. The reason this allegory was used was because people strive so hard to pursue wine because of it's properties, but wine is destructive and degrading; where as in heaven they have something better and fulfilling without those destructve properties and greater benefits.

In the other Schools of thought, the wine is literal but it's not the wine of the Earth as well, it's not done for intoxication but apart of a relaxed and content life. Just a creature comfort without any of the normal properties of earthly wine.

So the comparison is not accurate since the wine of the Earth, violates our human nature because it's an intoxicant, the wine of heaven is compatible with our nature, because it will be heavenly. That's the traditional view. My view " Mu'tazilah" has a different approach.

[Badlun]

Sharab me na skhal pa dunya ke da janat pa tama
pa zankadan ke ye rata wey che dozakh ta ba zey !!!

Personally I am not a drunkard or using any intoxicant or drug and have never smoken through out my life but I want the jadhb here in this world too. If in the hereafter the alcohol does not have intoxication then why its called sharab or khamar or wine. That can be simply called as grape juice which also we have here in this world and is not at all forbidden. Then why this much enticing description of wine in the heavens.

Also I dont believe that any part of Quran is mansookh or abrogated as its illogical that Quran once says one thing and then reejct it next. yes context can change an dwe can have different injunctions for the same thing.As how Quran can claim that wine or alcohol has some benifits(may be used) and then it totally make it forbidden.

Also one should not drink before prayers but Quran allows you without prayers times. Quran could make it haram in one go and not step wise as it made other things haram even those were also very much embedded in that society. Also I dont see any command which explicitly make alcohol haram as it make other things haram like pork.

Also i am confused how Hanafi fiqa make noin grape alcohol as permissible.

[Shehbaz Khan]

^ Read my post !! Thank You !! I am usually not into religious discussions but may be that is able to clearify your doubt a bit !!

[Badlun]

I read the post and the response was based principally on that post but I still have these doubts and will love to have further clarification.

[Shehbaz Khan]

Well put your further doubts on the forum If I could answer I will, else someone else if they could will love to clearify !!

[Badlun]

1. If in the hereafter the alcohol does not have intoxication then why its called sharab or khamar or wine. That can be simply called as grape juice which also we have here in this world and is not at all forbidden. Then why this much enticing description of wine in the heavens.

2.Also I dont believe that any part of Quran is mansookh or abrogated as its illogical that Quran once says one thing and then reejct it next. yes context can change an dwe can have different injunctions for the same thing.As how Quran can claim that wine or alcohol has some benifits(may be used) and then it totally make it forbidden.

3.Also one should not drink before prayers but Quran allows you without prayers times. Quran could make it haram in one go and not step wise as it made other things haram even those were also very much embedded in that society.

4.Also I dont see any command which explicitly make alcohol haram as it make other things haram like pork.

5.Also I am confused how Hanafi fiqa make non grape alcohol as permissible

[Shehbaz Khan]

1. If in the hereafter the alcohol does not have intoxication then why its called sharab or khamar or wine. That can be simply called as grape juice which also we have here in this world and is not at all forbidden. Then why this much enticing description of wine in the heavens.

Well, Why it's called Sharab/Khamar than I don't know, may be it was just to attract the people. And may be over there it's the same thing with more benefits and less evils. Like if you see (I don't remember the refrence) many of the Arabs eat twice in a day and for the same reason Quran/Hadith (Don't remember refrence) says that the official meal timings in paradise will be twice a day. though there will be no specific timing of eating any time you wish for something it will be there .. So it is for the people that see avoid this thing here you will have it in the hereafter.

2.Also I dont believe that any part of Quran is mansookh or abrogated as its illogical that Quran once says one thing and then reejct it next. yes context can change an dwe can have different injunctions for the same thing.As how Quran can claim that wine or alcohol has some benifits(may be used) and then it totally make it forbidden.

Alcohol can be used in many ways for benefits like medicines etc. So Quran saying that it does have benefits is not wrong. Plus if you know that If some medicine contains Drugs etc and those are vital for you than you can have them. So same is the case of wine like if it's vital for your life or it's the only thing available that can save your life than you can surely have it.

3.Also one should not drink before prayers but Quran allows you without prayers times. Quran could make it haram in one go and not step wise as it made other things haram even those were also very much embedded in that society.

I gave you the context of this in my last post Re-Read it

4.Also I dont see any command which explicitly make alcohol haram as it make other things haram like pork.

There are many toxicated things nashi like Chars, Bang, Podar and Sharab so Quran cannot name all of them so it said all the intoxicated things are Haram

5.Also I am confused how Hanafi fiqa make non grape alcohol as permissible

I dont know anything about sects dear .. I thank God I don't know about it .. Yet I suppose that Hanafis are the ones following Imam Abu Hanifa? If yes than I never heard them saying that a specific type of Wine is allowed!!

[Manzareh]

1. If in the hereafter the alcohol does not have intoxication then why its called sharab or khamar or wine. That can be simply called as grape juice which also we have here in this world and is not at all forbidden. Then why this much enticing description of wine in the heavens.

There are trees in heaven (but not like the trees in the earth) but there still called trees, There are fruits in Heaven (but not like the fruits of the earth) but they are still called fruits..its the same with alcohol..and the obvious reason its called Sharab/Khamar when refering to the heavenly sharab/khamar because you would not understand what it is if it was called "ghjruyat" for example, the closest thing in this world is sharaab/khamar.

2.Also I dont believe that any part of Quran is mansookh or abrogated as its illogical that Quran once says one thing and then reejct it next. yes context can change an dwe can have different injunctions for the same thing.As how Quran can claim that wine or alcohol has some benifits(may be used) and then it totally make it forbidden.

if you take a pile of human waste and put it under a microscope id bet there will definatly be some "beneficial" stuff in it someware, theres benefits in everything. there are more bad things in alcohol then the benefits, alcohol is permitted for medical use, the same way we are allowed to eat swine if we 'need' to. the secound point is this were you think the quran or islam has changed its mind, obviously at the time were islam did not forbid alcohol Islam wasnt complete, when the whole quran was revealed islam that was the day Islam was perfected (to us)

3.Also one should not drink before prayers but Quran allows you without prayers times. Quran could make it haram in one go and not step wise as it made other things haram even those were also very much embedded in that society.

Think of it logically, what would be the point in telling people not to drink alcohol when CORE Islamic ideologies and commands have not been told to the people, when your childs hand is going towards the fire you tell him to pull it back BEFORE you tell him not to do it again or WHY he shouldnt do it again. you cant tell some1 not to drink in islam when you havent told them who Allah is first.

4.Also I dont see any command which explicitly make alcohol haram as it make other things haram like pork. .

ofcourse it explicitly says Alcohol is Haram:

"They ask you regarding wine and gambling. Say, in both of them is major sin" - Surah Baqarah

5.Also I am confused how Hanafi fiqa make non grape alcohol as permissible

Alcohol is Haram. full stop

[TaMiKa]

Alcohol is so fun. You should all try it. Probably give most of you some life. Seriously, some of you really need to chill, hav a drink and crunk.

[IamDZJ]

think of it this way. work is work and leisure time, leisure time. earth is earth and heaven, heaven. what you are asking for is for employs to be allowed to drink on the job site.
adam was not sent to earth so he could drink whenever he wished to do so. as a muslim you should know and agree with the fact that alcohol is forbidden in islam and if you are not a muslim then there is no point in carrying an argument about it.