Any yall know about wanetsi pashto?

[toughpashtun]

I think you're mistaking "stronghold" for mere presence. There wasn't anywhere near the amount of presence to call it a stronghold until about a decade and a half ago.

Read the URL I pasted. It said that ethnic Pashtuns increased in population, via both internal migration, as well as Afghan migration (settled refugees). The article talks about how the demographics have changed.

I don't think there is much strength in this arguement.The Afghan refugees surely have added to the Pashtun population, but the number of Afghan refugees is still quite low compared to the original Pakistani pashtuns living there.As for internal migration, this is the first time I am hearing about it.
More knowledgable members will be able to elaborate.

[Samandri]

I think you're mistaking "stronghold" for mere presence. There wasn't anywhere near the amount of presence to call it a stronghold until about a decade and a half ago.

Read the URL I pasted. It said that ethnic Pashtuns increased in population, via both internal migration, as well as Afghan migration (settled refugees). The article talks about how the demographics have changed.

As you have made a new claim that Pashtuns are recent settlers in Zhob, Loralai, Quetta etc so please prove to me (with the help of sources) that these areas were abodes of Balochis or Brahuis not long ago

[toughpashtun]

As you have made a new claim that Pashtuns are recent settlers in Zhob, Loralai, Quetta etc so please prove to me (with the help of sources) that these areas were abodes of Balochis or Brahuis not long ago

Samandri rora, since the thread is actually about Wanetsi Pashto, I have two questions for you.
Basically,are Sinjawi(ziarat district) and Harnai district the only areas where Wanetsi is spoken?
Which tribes speak Wanetsi?

I was under the impression that in Loralai also Wanetsi is spoken,but when I found out (by watching different videos of that area) that they speak pure Pashto there,not Wanetsi.

[Elite Pakhtun]

As you have made a new claim that Pashtuns are recent settlers in Zhob, Loralai, Quetta etc so please prove to me (with the help of sources) that these areas were abodes of Balochis or Brahuis not long ago

I don't think there is much strength in this arguement.The Afghan refugees surely have added to the Pashtun population, but the number of Afghan refugees is still quite low compared to the original Pakistani pashtuns living there.As for internal migration, this is the first time I am hearing about it.
More knowledgable members will be able to elaborate.

Neither of you seem to be comprehending what I'm saying. North Balochistan, while may have had some presence of Pashtuns, has in the recent past experienced a significant increase. Enough that it's now a stronghold. If you can't comprehend this, theres not much I can do for you. I never said anything about Brahuis being displaced etc. It's a sparsely populated province... people can migrate without displacing. If you need sources, I'll paste the same thing again.

The Londoner : Are Balochis Becoming A Minority In Balochistan?

My point here is simply to show that, in the recent past, migration has been north to south. This is obviously in reference to the original dialect stuff, where it was claimed that the north was colonized.

[Samandri]

Samandri rora, since the thread is actually about Wanetsi Pashto, I have two questions for you.
Basically,are Sinjawi(ziarat district) and Harnai district the only areas where Wanetsi is spoken?
Which tribes speak Wanetsi?

I was under the impression that in Loralai also Wanetsi is spoken,but when I found out (by watching different videos of that area) that they speak pure Pashto there,not Wanetsi.

As Sanjawi was once part of Loralai so in old records Loralai's name appears in connection with Wanechi......I dont think Wanechis live in nowadays Loralai

Wanechi is a branch of Spin Tarins.....according to the traditional genealogy, Wanechi was one of the three sons of Spin Tarin

[Samandri]

That's most likely because you are from Peshawar Valley or surrounding areas.
I had never heard of "pai" until I met Peshawris lol

While going through the etymological dictionary of Pashto few days ago, i found that Avestan word for milk is "Paiiah" from which obviously our Pai is derived

[Shapur]

While going through the etymological dictionary of Pashto few days ago, i found that Avestan word for milk is "Paiiah" from which obviously our Pai is derived

Which dictionary is that?

[Samandri]

Which dictionary is that?

Georg Mergenstierne's

[Farahshah]

Neither of you seem to be comprehending what I'm saying. North Balochistan, while may have had some presence of Pashtuns, has in the recent past experienced a significant increase. Enough that it's now a stronghold. If you can't comprehend this, theres not much I can do for you. I never said anything about Brahuis being displaced etc. It's a sparsely populated province... people can migrate without displacing. If you need sources, I'll paste the same thing again.

The Londoner : Are Balochis Becoming A Minority In Balochistan?

My point here is simply to show that, in the recent past, migration has been north to south. This is obviously in reference to the original dialect stuff, where it was claimed that the north was colonized.

The thing is balochistan isn't actually balochistan. It was named balochistan at the the time of partition by british. Very recently right. The nothern part including the quetta city belonged and still belongs to pashtun. The name quetta itself is a pashto word. It's anceint name was shalkot and is said that the city quetta and the sorrounding area was given by a pashtun king or governer to his daughter in shal (in old times pashtuns would give shal or shawl to his daughter as walawar). Kot means fortress (kotta) in pashtu. Hence the name shalkot and after that was changed into quetta. In quetta majority of population is of pashtun. Next brahvi (brahvis are intermixed group pastuns and baloch) then comes baloch. Baloch being dwellers of desserts, never belonged to mountaineous area. Few of them have migrated towards mountaneous areas very recently. The reason of balochis being in minority isn't pashtun migration as these balochis pakistanis and british propagate. It is just that they have always been few in number as compared to pashtuns. The history of southern pashtun areas itself verifies the fact that the land was always pastun property. People of nothern balochistan hate to call the areas balochistan and want to be part of kpk. Trust me on that. I live in pashtun diaspora of balochistan n i hate it too. I'm not being hateful or anything toward baloch or any other ethnic group. I just hate the way these british propagade us as greedy and barbaric immigrants living in stolen lands.

[Farahshah]

Source of Pashto language is a matter with differing opinions, depending on the person. Some say Avestan, some say Arik, some say Saki, some say other things (Hebrew, etc).

Could you provide us the source of these Avestan words? It would help us conclude this easier.



I think this is merely a coincidence, and not proof of anything. I will give it to you though. It is a good coincidence.

The English word "bad" is also "bad" in Pashto (pronounced slightly different). Also "da"/"de" and "the" are somewhat similar in sound and usage. Ossetian "ta" "ma" (usually it's "zama", but sometimes we say "ma" as shortform) and "num" overlap exactly with Pashto.

There was a thread which had this avestan word comparison. It had a number of words which overlapped with Kheen dialect moreso than the kandahari dialect. Unfortunately that thread is deleted. No idea why. It's not like there is a bias here.

Also, Avestan would be root for Farsi words as well, many of which Pashto has borrowed. Georg Morgenstierne believes Pashto's root is actually Saki, not Avestan.



Please provide proof of this "colonization of the northern areas". I dispute this claim. It sounds a bit humorous, but I'm interested in this topic. Would love to learn more about it.

Reference to Pactyans among Gandhara has been documented. Also, why would dialect change to something completely distinct? Wouldn't it be more logical if it was closer to, idk, Punjabi/Hindko instead?



Not an original Pashto word. Derived from some farsi thing (which itself has transformed over time).





No, hair is [/COLOR]varesåsca [varesa] in Avestan.

Source of these Avestan words are requested, once again.



Are you sure? I don't believe he ever said this. There's no reference outside of PF.



Olaf Caroe is well respected. He makes reference to Pactyans being mentioned by Herodotus, among other things. Not sure he said anything about original dialects. Can you provide the source where mentions George's claims on the dialects?

I would recommend looking through this paper: http://pu.edu.pk/images/journal/engl...I_jan_2016.pdf

It's fairly comprehensive.

There's no doubt the fact pashto is indeed one of the decendant of avestan language along with ossetic, yaghnobi,m and wakhi. All of the languages are miscatorgarized under old persian. The ari and saki were not different language they were according to some different accents of avestan language like dari and tajiki are of persian. And pashto is decendant of arik not saki. But then as you said it's a matter of different opinions. The language today is complicated and has evolved so much that it can't be traced to it's actual ancestor so easily.

No it's not a coincidence. Avestan has an words with 'xsh' sound which is 'sch ښ' of pashto. This is pronounced 'sch' not 'sh ش'. in sothern accent but 'kh' in nothern. Somewhere the pronounciation 'khsch' is in the dictionary as well.
There are many avestan words which consist of 'sch' alphabet and are used in modern pashto and persians have confused it with simple 'sh ش'.
For example. Raoxshna of avestan is raoschaana in pashto (raokhana in nothern) and roshan in persian. Xschaitahe (schaista or khaista in pashto shaista in persian meaning radiant) xshcapan (schpa or khpa in pashto shab in persian) .

Pashto being direct decsendant of avestan language would never stoop to borrowing it's ancestral words from other languages. Use commonsence here. Why would pashto borrow its 'own' words from persian who has no relationship whatsoever with avestan. Old persian adopted many avestan (the official religious language of ancient iranians )words and passed it to persian.
Like pouvra, pashto pra n poura persian poura or re. zar (zar in pashto and persian as in gold but zharh or zarh in pashto zard in persian when is considered yellow. Aap (ab in old persian and moderns persian as well) gatha (gatha in sanskrit in persian geet) par (the same in persian dunno if pashtun use it too the word means feather), tapayi (tavd tavu and tabba in pashto tapesh in persian., tanu (tan tanna in pashto tan in persian) suxra (sur in pashto surkh in persian), stoish (stai stayena in pashto, stayish in persian. There's another avestan word stu or stui which is more closer to pashto stai) gaosh (ghuwazh or ghuwag in pashto gosh in persian)and zaor (zor in pashto and persian as well). Gam (Gam in pashto gadam/gam in persia) darouga (darogh darwogh dorha in pashto darogh in persian) etc. And i'd like to add samandari's words to the list as well.
If you want refetence to all that search joseph peterson's avestan dictionary.

North was never colonized. That's bull. Truth is just like avestan had different accents pashto had it too. Logically, there were always pashtuns in the south and pakhtuns in the north and both of them spoke the same language. The dialects have been as old as pashto itself. Or may be they are as old as avestan.

[salman47]

There's no doubt the fact pashto is indeed one of the decendant of aryan language along with ossetic, yaghnobi, wakhi and pamiri. All of the languages are miscatorgarized under old persian. The ari and saki were not different language they were according to some different accents of avestan language like dari and tajiki are of persian. And pashto is decendant of ari not saki. But then as you said it's a matter of different opinions. The language today is complicated and has evolved so much that it can't be traced to it's actual ancestor so easily.

No it's not a coincidence. Avestan has an alphsbet 'xsh' which is 'sch ښ' of pashto. This is pronounced 'sch' not 'sh ش'. in sothern accent but 'kh' in nothern. Somewhere the pronounciation 'khsch' is in the dictionary as well.
There are many avestan words which consist of 'sch' alphabet and are used in modern pashto and persians have confused it with simple 'sh ش'.
For example. Raoxshna of avestan is raoschaana in pashto (raokhana in nothern) and roshan in persian. Xschaitahe (schaista or khaista in pashto shaista in persian meaning radiant) xshcapan (schpa or khpa in pashto shab in persian) . Gam (Gam in pashto gadam/gam in persia) darouga (darogh darwogh dorha in pashto darogh in persian) etc

Pashto being direct decsendant of avestan language would never stoop to borrowing it's ancestral words from other languages. Use commonsence here. Why would pashto borrow its 'own' words from persian who has no relationship whatsoever with avestan. Old persian adopted many avestan (the official religious language of ancient iranians )words and passed it to persian.
Like pouvra, pashto pra n poura persian poura or re. zar (zar in pashto and persian as in gold but zharh or zarh in pashto zard in persian when is considered yellow. Aap (ab in old persian and moderns persian as well) gatha (gatha in sanskrit in persian geet) par (the same in persian dunno if pashtun use it too the word means feather), tapayi (tavd tavu and tabba in pashto tapesh in persian., tanu (tan tanna in pashto tan in persian) suxra (sur in pashto surkh in persian), stoish (stai stayena in pashto, stayish in persian. There's another avestan word stu or stui which is more closer to pashto stai) gaosh (ghuwazh or ghuwag in pashto gosh in persian)and zaor (zor in pashto and persian as well). And i'd like to add samandari's words to the list as well.
If you want refetence to all that search joseph peterson's avestan dictionary.

Nothern was never colonized. That's a bull. Truth is just like avestan had different accents pashto had it too. Logically, there were always pashtuns in the south and pakhtuns in the north and both of them spoke the same language. The dialects have been as old as pashto itself. Or may be they are as old as avestan.

Wow!! Very interesting!!
Also add to the fact that 'Parsi' is recovering many lost words from 'other' Iranian languages(esp. Pashto, because it is very old and has less changes fortunately)...
E.g. 'pas'(after/later)[natively used in Pashto, dont know about other Iranian languages] is a new word added to Iranian Parsi to replace 'ba'ad'(Arabic).

[Farahshah]

Wow!! Very interesting!!
Also add to the fact that 'Parsi' is recovering many lost words from 'other' Iranian languages(esp. Pashto, because it is very old and has less changes fortunately)...
E.g. 'pas'(after/later)[natively used in Pashto, dont know about other Iranian languages] is a new word added to Iranian Parsi to replace 'ba'ad'(Arabic).

Well yes there are so many avestan words in persian and urdu that are found in pashto as well. What grates on my nerves is that everywhere on internet they consider those words persian. Even they do acknowledge that pashto is indeed evolutionalised form of avestan. I hate it when etymologist call our language either indic or persian. Truth be told its neither.
The word pas is indeed a pashto word. In greek it is piso or peso (which means back or return. It is used in other form as well. For that you have to look into greek dictionary) in avestan it's passa. In pasto its pass. It is found in latin and spanish as well but with different pronounciation form and slightly different meaning.The word wapas is pashto as well. 'Wa' is pashto prefix used in present perfective form of verb. The word 'pata' (adress or way) is pashto too. It is derived from pantha meaning way path or trace in avestan. The english word 'path' is derived from it too. But due to the confusion created by artificial languages like urdu n hindi and yes sanskrit pastuns confuse these words and use it the way non pashtun use it.
I don't know much about kurdish. But i believe most of the 'persian' words that consist of alphabets (ع. ص.ق.ظ.ذ etc)are actually kurdishi. Cuz kurdishi is more closely related to arabic and hebrew than persian and that those alphabets didn't originally belong to persian but were borrowed from arabic.

[salman47]

Well yes there are so many avestan words in persian and urdu that are found in pashto as well. What grates on my nerves is that everywhere on internet they consider those words persian. Even they do acknowledge that pashto is indeed evolutionalised form of avestan. I hate it when etymologist call our language either indic or persian. Truth be told its neither.
The word pas is indeed a pashto word. In greek it is piso or peso (which means back or return. It is used in other form as well. For that you have to look into greek dictionary) in avestan it's passa. In pasto its pass. It is found in latin and spanish as well but with different pronounciation form and slightly different meaning.The word wapas is pashto as well. 'Wa' is pashto suffix used in present perfective form of verb. The word 'pata' (adress or way) is pashto too. It is derived from patha meaning way path or trace in avestan. The english word 'path' is derived from it too. But due to the confusion created by artificial languages like urdu n hindi and yes sanskrit pastuns confuse these words and use it the way non pashtun use it.
I don't know much about kurdish. But i believe most of the 'persian' words that consist of alphabets (ع. ص.ق.ظ.ذ etc)are actually kurdishi. Cuz kurdishi is more closely related to arabic and hebrew than persian and that those alphabets didn't originally belong to persian but were borrowed from arabic.

Your point on 'Wapas' is interesting, though I stopped using it in favor of 'Berta'(only Pushtana use it thats why)... Dunno maybe I will search into it.
Also yes, many of the alphabets in Pashto/Parsi are absolutely useless, e.g. ح، ع، ق، ث، ص، ض، ط، ة، ذ، ظ، ء !
Also can you recommend me some literature on Native Pashto Words and Pashto words being loanwords in other languages? [trying to purify my Pashto you know]

[Charsi Malang]

The Pashto word for eyes as far as I know is "stargey". However I have heard the word "lemu" used as well.

Does anyone know what that is all about? Or am I going wrong somewhere?

[Farahshah]

Your point on 'Wapas' is interesting, though I stopped using it in favor of 'Berta'(only Pushtana use it thats why)... Dunno maybe I will search into it.
Also yes, many of the alphabets in Pashto/Parsi are absolutely useless, e.g. ح، ع، ق، ث، ص، ض، ط، ة، ذ، ظ، ء !
Also can you recommend me some literature on Native Pashto Words and Pashto words being loanwords in other languages? [trying to purify my Pashto you know]

Well i can. There is this page کره پښتو زده کړ on fb where pure pashto is taught. They also teach you the modern terms and expressions as well. They have very recently introduced their mobile app with the same title. I reccomend this pg to everyone. Also,You can download pashto dictionarirs on the internet. I have multiple dictionaries almost four of them. :D
Literary work. Well i'm not much into pashto literature. All of the poets use arabic loan words immensely.
I know the word 'berta' i use it too (as i'm of southern pashtun area) but you can't always use the word 'berta' for 'return'. Besides the word pas is used in many other ways as well. Like ot is used in the sense of 'follow' as well. Like 'za hm pasi derzama' and like 'te ye (or tey) hm pasi waka' etc.