Any yall know about wanetsi pashto?

[Elite Pakhtun]

The fact that it developed later doesn't mean that it's impure or was influence by other languages. It just means that the soft dialect was there first and that the hard dialect evolved from it. Languages naturally evolve and it doesn't only happen because of outside influence, although that can certainly be a factor. Basically the kheen dialect being different from surrounding languages has nothing to do with it being original.

C'mon man. You're reaaaallllly reaching hard now. That is such a strawman

It evolved... from nothing? Wow, that's pretty cool. So some d00d decided one day to replace "kh" with "sh"?

What sounds more realistic?:

• Kheen is original, and as the Pakhtuns migrated southwards (because mountains are blocking them up north), the ones who settled in the south started getting influenced, and thereby evolved via osmosis with their neighboring language: Farsi (which, happens to be at their south west). It should also be noted that Northern Balochistan had a relatively recent influx of Pakhtuns. It wasn't always a stronghold.
• Sheen is original, and as Pakhtuns migrated northwards, they decided to magically change "sh" to "kh". For no reason. Just cuz... ya know, it'll be fun. Let's more than half of us change our dialect because because. That's why they're changing it. Because.

[toughpashtun]

C'mon man. You're reaaaallllly reaching hard now. That is such a strawman

It evolved... from nothing? Wow, that's pretty cool. So some d00d decided one day to replace "kh" with "sh"?

What sounds more realistic?:

• Kheen is original, and as the Pakhtuns migrated southwards (because mountains are blocking them up north), the ones who settled in the south started getting influenced, and thereby evolved via osmosis with their neighboring language: Farsi (which, happens to be at their south west). It should also be noted that Northern Balochistan had a relatively recent influx of Pakhtuns. It wasn't always a stronghold.
• Sheen is original, and as Pakhtuns migrated northwards, they decided to magically change "sh" to "kh". For no reason. Just cuz... ya know, it'll be fun. Let's more than half of us change our dialect because because. That's why they're changing it. Because.

1) Pashtuns migrated northwards,not southwards.There is almost concensus on this.
2) North Balochistan,which includes the Sulaiman mountains, is considered to be the originating place of Pashtuns.
What proof do you have that it recently became a Pashtun stronghold?

[Samandri]

• Kheen is original, and as the Pakhtuns migrated southwards (because mountains are blocking them up north), the ones who settled in the south started getting influenced, and thereby evolved via osmosis with their neighboring language: Farsi (which, happens to be at their south west). It should also be noted that Northern Balochistan had a relatively recent influx of Pakhtuns. It wasn't always a stronghold.
• Sheen is original, and as Pakhtuns migrated northwards, they decided to magically change "sh" to "kh". For no reason. Just cuz... ya know, it'll be fun. Let's more than half of us change our dialect because because. That's why they're changing it. Because.

Tell me the name of your tribe in KP and i might be able to trace the original abode of your tribe through sources

[Traveller]

C'mon man. You're reaaaallllly reaching hard now. That is such a strawman

It evolved... from nothing? Wow, that's pretty cool. So some d00d decided one day to replace "kh" with "sh"?

What sounds more realistic?:

• Kheen is original, and as the Pakhtuns migrated southwards (because mountains are blocking them up north), the ones who settled in the south started getting influenced, and thereby evolved via osmosis with their neighboring language: Farsi (which, happens to be at their south west). It should also be noted that Northern Balochistan had a relatively recent influx of Pakhtuns. It wasn't always a stronghold.
• Sheen is original, and as Pakhtuns migrated northwards, they decided to magically change "sh" to "kh". For no reason. Just cuz... ya know, it'll be fun. Let's more than half of us change our dialect because because. That's why they're changing it. Because.

How does sheen have anything to do Farsi? And languages actually do change for no apparent reason.

[Dilawerkhan]

How does sheen have anything to do Farsi?

Not Farsi, but in Kurdi it is blue. There are many shared words between Pashto and Kurdi which are not found in Farsi, so this suggests that sheen is the original word.

Edit: Other shared pashto-kurdi colors, which I have not heard in farsi are:

Soor
Spee (kurdi) - speen (pashto)

[Charsi Malang]

Not Farsi, but in Kurdi it is blue. There are many shared words between Pashto and Kurdi which are not found in Farsi, so this suggests that sheen is the original word.

Edit: Other shared pashto-kurdi colors, which I have not heard in farsi are:

Soor
Spee (kurdi) - speen (pashto)

My wife has an Iraqi Kurdish friend who speaks Kurdish. Every time she goes to her house she says she's astonished at the similarities between Kurdish and Pashto. She told me quite a few words which we think are unique to Pashto that Kurds also use. I think they even names in the same way as Pakhtana do.... by this I mean adding an "a" after everything. 😉

I was once at work an Iraqi Arab girl was assisting me when I was dealing with an Afghan. Naturally the Afghan and I were speaking Pashto. After he left my assistant asked me if I was Kurdish. I said no, and she said she was pretty sure we were speaking Kurdish. I don't know any Kurdish words, but from what I have heard it seems a lot of people think it's similar to Pashto.

[Elite Pakhtun]

1) Pashtuns migrated northwards,not southwards.There is almost concensus on this.
2) North Balochistan,which includes the Sulaiman mountains, is considered to be the originating place of Pashtuns.
What proof do you have that it recently became a Pashtun stronghold?

If there's consensus, you should have no issue providing sources then.

As for north balochistan... are you sure you're Pakistani? This is pretty well known. The Londoner : Are Balochis Becoming A Minority In Balochistan?

Tell me the name of your tribe in KP and i might be able to trace the original abode of your tribe through sources

Appreciate the offer, but would not be something I'd do in a public post. As well, I'm aware of my lineage's history.

How does sheen have anything to do Farsi? And languages actually do change for no apparent reason.

They sound very similar. The same is not the case for hard/kheen dialect. Farsi is a soft language. Soft dialect is similar sounding to a neighboring soft language... just wonder why.

Your posts are highly foolish. You're saying the fact it sounds nothing like it's surroundings is meaningless (hah!), and that it can just evolve into something totally new, out of thin air, while originating somewhere else (all while ignoring the similarities of the neighboring language with the other dialect).

Tell me about why Herodotus mentioned Pactyans in the area, in the 500+ BC era? Why is there mention of Pactyans as one of the Gandhara tribes? There's a paper I pasted, read it... tell me why linguists believe Pakhto was derived from Pakht, or Bakht, and may be a Bactrian language? All ancient references to Pakhtuns use the "K"/"C" letter i.e. hard dialect vs "S" or "sh".

[Dilawerkhan]

My wife has an Iraqi Kurdish friend who speaks Kurdish. Every time she goes to her house she says she's astonished at the similarities between Kurdish and Pashto. She told me quite a few words which we think are unique to Pashto that Kurds also use. I think they even names in the same way as Pakhtana do.... by this I mean adding an "a" after everything. 😉

I was once at work an Iraqi Arab girl was assisting me when I was dealing with an Afghan. Naturally the Afghan and I were speaking Pashto. After he left my assistant asked me if I was Kurdish. I said no, and she said she was pretty sure we were speaking Kurdish. I don't know any Kurdish words, but from what I have heard it seems a lot of people think it's similar to Pashto.

Thanks, that is an interesting story.......I have heard similar things from 3 or 4 other Pashtuns......

Yes, there are many similar words between Kurdi and Pashto which are not found in farsi. Pashto, especially the Kandhari dialect sounds much more similar to the Sorani Kurdi dialect than to Farsi. Here is a link to a Sorani Kurdi drama Dramay Gardalul 3 Alqay 38 - YouTube

Notice from a distance it sort of sounds like Pashto. There is also a Feyli Kurd tribe called Afghani on the border of Iraq and Iran.


Genetically, both Pashtuns and Kurds are largely derived from Iran Neolithics, Caucasus Hunter Gatherers, Eurasian Steppe groups, and Turkics. Physically and culturally there is also quite a bit of similarity.

However, whichever group contributed those words to both Kurds and Pashtuns must have been a couple of thousand years ago, because both languages have since diverged quite a bit from each other.

[Samandri]

Appreciate the offer, but would not be something I'd do in a public post. As well, I'm aware of my lineage's history.



.

I am asking about your tribe because almost all the tribes in upper KP and upper FATA have migrated from Southern Afghanistan where sheen dialect of Pashto is spoken

[Samandri]

Tell me about why Herodotus mentioned Pactyans in the area, in the 500+ BC era? Why is there mention of Pactyans as one of the Gandhara tribes? There's a paper I pasted, read it... tell me why linguists believe Pakhto was derived from Pakht, or Bakht, and may be a Bactrian language? All ancient references to Pakhtuns use the "K"/"C" letter i.e. hard dialect vs "S" or "sh".

There is no "sh" sound in ancient Greek......moreover the Greek historians of remote regions have not pronounced the names of our regions exactly like the original....for one region, different Greek historians have spelled it differently.....for example a tribe of present day Afghanistan is called "Aspioi" by Arrian (2nd century Greek historian), the same tribe is spelled "Hypasioi" by Strabo (27 BC Greek historian) which is spelled as "Agriaspai" by Greek historian Curtias of later period

[Elite Pakhtun]

There is no "sh" sound in ancient Greek......

There's no "kh" sound either. That's why they used "C"/"K".

[Samandri]

There's no "kh" sound either. That's why they used "C"/"K".

And you do realize that its "Pactyan"........

If you are not telling me your tribe's name, we are done here.

[Elite Pakhtun]

And you do realize that its "Pactyan".......

If you are not telling me your tribe's name, we are done here.

Okay, fair enough.

[toughpashtun]

If there's consensus, you should have no issue providing sources then.

As for north balochistan... are you sure you're Pakistani? This is pretty well known. The Londoner : Are Balochis Becoming A Minority In Balochistan?

1)I do not do a systematic study of these topics so I cannot provide references.However I can assure you that you will find this in many books and articles which discuss this issue.

2)The districts of North Balochistan such as Zhob, Sherani, Musakhel, Loralai, Pishin,Ziarat,Kila Abdullah,Kila Saifullah and Quetta have historically been populated by Pashtuns of tribes such as Kakar,Durrani,Mandokhel and some Ghilzai tribes like Nasar and Sulaimankhel.
The Kakars and Durranis are in majority though.
So it can be said that this area has been a Pashtun stronghold for long.
What this article is trying to say, and what is experienced by many, is that this province of Balochistan contains only about 50% Baloch, rest are either Pashtun or other ethnicity plus the Pashtuns have more dominance in government jobs and important positions and are more prosperous than Baloch.
Nowhere can you find any information that the Pashtuns have only recently began to populate Northern Balochistan.

[Elite Pakhtun]

2)The districts of North Balochistan such as Zhob, Sherani, Musakhel, Loralai, Pishin,Ziarat,Kila Abdullah,Kila Saifullah and Quetta have historically been populated by Pashtuns of tribes such as Kakar,Durrani,Mandokhel and some Ghilzai tribes like Nasar and Sulaimankhel.
The Kakars and Durranis are in majority though.
So it can be said that this area has been a Pashtun stronghold for long.
What this article is trying to say, and what is experienced by many, is that this province of Balochistan contains only about 50% Baloch, rest are either Pashtun or other ethnicity plus the Pashtuns have more dominance in government jobs and important positions and are more prosperous than Baloch.
Nowhere can you find any information that the Pashtuns have only recently began to populate Northern Balochistan.

I think you're mistaking "stronghold" for mere presence. There wasn't anywhere near the amount of presence to call it a stronghold until about a decade and a half ago.

Read the URL I pasted. It said that ethnic Pashtuns increased in population, via both internal migration, as well as Afghan migration (settled refugees). The article talks about how the demographics have changed.