Pashtuns say Pashto has always been discriminated against in Afghan society

[ScimitarXEdge]

You must be thinking you are a bigheaded pashtun nationnalist but in fact you are an ISI agent. Some times wearing cloths of Islam sometimes other things.

That's just a warped and fallacious fantasy world that you've invented for yourself to disguise that you hate Pashtoons and are an ethnocentric Tajik Nationalist.

I have never portrayed myself as a Pashtoon Nationalist; I shun all forms of ethnic Nationalism or Chauvinism , whether Pashtoon, Tajiks, Arab, Turk or anything else. You can even find posts on here where I defend Dari/Persian culture from criticisms. If your basis for calling me Nationalist or ISI Agent is because I exposed Massoud for being a homosexual rapist who had liaisons with the Russians, that's weak logic. Since Russian Generals and American CIA are the ones who have given us evidence on that. These guys were Massoud's best friends.

[کیش]

That's just a warped and fallacious fantasy world that you've invented for yourself to disguise that you hate Pashtoons and are an ethnocentric Tajik Nationalist.

I have never portrayed myself as a Pashtoon Nationalist; I shun all forms of ethnic Nationalism or Chauvinism , whether Pashtoon, Tajiks, Arab, Turk or anything else. You can even find posts on here where I defend Dari/Persian culture from criticisms. If your basis for calling me Nationalist or ISI Agent is because I exposed Massoud for being a homosexual rapist who had liaisons with the Russians, that's weak logic. Since Russian Generals and American CIA are the ones who have given us evidence on that. These guys were Massoud's best friends.

Can I see this evidence about Massoud? For good measure.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Can I see this evidence about Massoud? For good measure.

Charlie Wilson's War: The ... - Google Books


and here

Crisis Confronting Afghan Women ... - Google Books

[کیش]

that is evidence of Massouds lieutenants, but is their any evidence on Massoud himself?

[ScimitarXEdge]

common sense? lieutenants aren't raping people unless their commanders are and giving orders for it. If he didn't have control over his men's behavior and engage in it; how is it then he's a commander?

[Paikaar]

that is evidence of Massouds lieutenants, but is their any evidence on Massoud himself?

Even this evidence is fictional. Massoud would shoot dead anyone amongst his ranks.

Lets analyze this "Novel"
First these men rapes a Russian soldier and the blond young westerners are terrified!! Puts night vision goggles on. Sleeps with weapons.!!

No Westerner , travelled with his gun and even that deep into AFG afghanistan. Even those travelling to bordering regions of afpak, they would disguise themselves as journalists and aid workers, while they were actually secret agents.

But this bad litenant then gets himslef killed to protest the British, what a dramatic scence.

Her further on says that was the AFGHAN code of honor, hospitatlity and revenge!! wait thats pashtunwali, massoud's people are not pashtuns.
He says he raped the soldier to seek revenge??!!! Again this contradicts MR Phd smxter... lol account. Why would a Russian agent (massoud) seek reveng from Russians and rape them. Why would they keep POWs if they were siding with the Russians.

page no. 199 of this same book: When a pashtun wants to make love with a woman his first choice is a Tajik man.! How do you explain this MR Not-homosexual guy lol

All this crap had been created by ISI who according to this book, majority of its officers were pashtuns, the enemies of massoud but friends of Gulbuddinn. So what this Smxextrr says is what he is told by the ISI officers.

Massoud' litenants?? Meaning second in command or probably the major commanders, who got himself killed protecting a westerner. THIS NEVER HAPPENED AND IT IS NEVER DOCUMENTED IN ANY SOURCE so doesn't he name him? Coz t
Which one of your accounts is True? wait... none


Here is a true account of one of the numerous

This guy never made it to Panjsher, Just like the Rambo 3 when he goes to Khost and on one side it it khost and a stone's throw is says "this is panjsher valley and meets massoud!! aparently. with a moustche and turban !! They even didn't now how massoud looked but given his popularity they woud use to publicise their movie, same like this NOVEL of Charlie Wilson

[Paikaar]

Even this evidence is fictional. Massoud would shoot dead anyone amongst his ranks.

Lets analyze this "Novel"
First these men rapes a Russian soldier and the blond young westerners are terrified!! Puts night vision goggles on. Sleeps with weapons.!!

No Westerner , travelled with his gun and even that deep into AFG afghanistan. Even those travelling to bordering regions of afpak, they would disguise themselves as journalists and aid workers, while they were actually secret agents.

But this bad litenant then gets himslef killed to protest the British, what a dramatic scence.

Her further on says that was the AFGHAN code of honor, hospitatlity and revenge!! wait thats pashtunwali, massoud's people are not pashtuns.
He says he raped the soldier to seek revenge??!!! Again this contradicts MR Phd smxter... lol account. Why would a Russian agent (massoud) seek reveng from Russians and rape them. Why would they keep POWs if they were siding with the Russians.

page no. 199 of this same book: When a pashtun wants to make love with a woman his first choice is a Tajik man.! How do you explain this MR Not-homosexual guy lol

All this crap had been created by ISI who according to this book, majority of its officers were pashtuns, the enemies of massoud but friends of Gulbuddinn. So what this Smxextrr says is what he is told by the ISI officers.

Massoud' litenants?? Meaning second in command or probably the major commanders, who got himself killed protecting a westerner. THIS NEVER HAPPENED AND IT IS NEVER DOCUMENTED IN ANY SOURCE so doesn't he name him? Coz t
Which one of your accounts is True? wait... none


Here is a true account of one of the numerous

This guy never made it to Panjsher, Just like the Rambo 3 when he goes to Khost and on one side it it khost and a stone's throw is says "this is panjsher valley and meets massoud!! aparently. with a moustche and turban !! They even didn't now how massoud looked but given his popularity they woud use to publicise their movie, same like this NOVEL of Charlie Wilson

A brief history of Afghanistan - Google Books
This book tells a very different story about Massoud.
Mr gholjai

[ScimitarXEdge]

Paikaar; this isn't a "novel" it's a historical account from CIA Agents who worked with Massoud;

to quote a Persian saying "You can't hide the sun beneath two fingers"

[Albani_Rahmat_Kabulzada]

your stories are totally unture.
have you been to Afghanistan?
people fom all ethnicities can speak pashto and pashto is the national language the national anthem is in pashto and ends with Allah u akbar,the military commands,ranks are in pashto,univeristies,schools,are in pashto,you are just wasting your time trying to disprove the reality.

maybe in the past dari was mor ein use but things are changing for better and soon durrand line will be finished and pukhtunkhwa will eb part of afghanistan just sit back and watch.

That´s not fully true. The official national anthem is in Pashtu but the non-Pashtuns adore the Dari version and the military ranks are also in own Dari language. It starts with Askar, Sardar, ... Turan, Dagarwal.... and ends with english ranks like Bridj Janral to Marshal.

[Albani_Rahmat_Kabulzada]

But one thing more...It is true that Pashto in Afghanistan doesnt have a status at par with that of Dari...And never ever it would have that status until Pashtuns have their own center of cultural and linguistic gravity where urban sohpisticated middle class contribute to the development of Pashtun culture and language.

Such two centers may be one extending from Kabul (probably excluding Kabul) all the way to Peshawar via Jalalabad...

The other may be Kandahar all the way to Quetta via Chaman...

Jalalabad self is not a Pashtun centre. The regional province yes, but the city not. Qandahar, Quetta and Peshawar can become centres but for Quetta we need to be very carefully. Baluch brothers have an eye on the region

[Albani_Rahmat_Kabulzada]

Why the hell should you HAVE to learn a foreign language to be accepted in your own army?? oh i forgot because afghanistan has so many DISTINCT DENSE PERSIAN REGIONS they dont recognise pashto right? were as 70% of afghanistan speak Dari. My brother is engaged to a family from Helmand and there family ALL know Dari..why is this? go figure

Possibly working for a Dehwari or Deqan?? They all speak Dari and Pashtu but are Dari origine.

[Albani_Rahmat_Kabulzada]

Charlie Wilson's War: The ... - Google Books


and here

Crisis Confronting Afghan Women ... - Google Books

Come on dear brother, Massoud had among his men even high ranking Pashtuns. The two books you provided are not accurate. The first book does no where mention anything and the second book is written, obvously, by a Pashtun nationalist woman. I know her and her works on Pashtuns and how many fantasies she developes. Get serious. Majority of Pashtuns hate Massoud because he and Anwari broke the Pashtuns´ neck to rule, a rule that lasted from 1747 to the day of his activities and that of his family along the Kohdamanis. But you guys forget that Massoud´s mother was a Pashtun, too. I am self half Pashtun. My mother is from Paktia and my father from Kabul. If you ask me if it was OK what Massoud did to the sellout people than I would say yes it was OK and if you would ask me if it was OK that he and his family´s activities ended the Pashtun ''hegemony'' on so called minorities I say yes it was OK, too. Why? One and the main reason was that the royal house self invited foreigners to the country. It started with Amanullah Khan making deals with Russia and ended with fighting against Gulbuddin and Pakistan. But just be serious. If Massoud would have been a pure Pashtun you guys had celebrated him already as a new Baba e Millat, right? Unfortunately, you like it or not, many of the Dari-zubans you hate so much have Pashtun wifes. Qanuni, Ismael Khan, Dostum´s mother is an Alizai, Massoud´s brother, Spanta, mother of Bachi Saqqau Habibullah Kalakani (even married a royal Muhammadzai woman) ... all of them have/had Pashtun wifes/mothers but noone talk about them. If Darizubans really hate Pashtuns why they marry Pashtun women? You should better know that non-Pashtuns suffered greatly under Pashtuns from the times of Dost Muhammad to day and they do not want more any Pashtun ruling them. That is understandable. They experienced the past and do not want to fall back to the old days. F.ex. many Pashtun tribes did not pay any taxes but non-Pashtuns had to pay. Many regions and lands of them were overran by Jaji, Mangal, Tochi and Zadran tribes who drove them out from their native countries and Pashtuns in the north started to colonize their regions. You would do the same if Tajiks or Uzbeks do the same in your regions. They were not allowed to express their feelings freely, organize themself as an own nation or speak their own language. They were oppressed. The Taliban era was just the sweetbitter taste of their experiences. You need to understand that. The same way Pashtuns do not want anyone stand over them, they do not want anyone dictating them anything, specially not who they are or what language they speak and what they have to do.

[Toramana]

Come on dear brother, Massoud had among his men even high ranking Pashtuns. The two books you provided are not accurate. The first book does no where mention anything and the second book is written, obvously, by a Pashtun nationalist woman. I know her and her works on Pashtuns and how many fantasies she developes. Get serious. Majority of Pashtuns hate Massoud because he and Anwari broke the Pashtuns´ neck to rule, a rule that lasted from 1747 to the day of his activities and that of his family along the Kohdamanis. But you guys forget that Massoud´s mother was a Pashtun, too. I am self half Pashtun. My mother is from Paktia and my father from Kabul. If you ask me if it was OK what Massoud did to the sellout people than I would say yes it was OK and if you would ask me if it was OK that he and his family´s activities ended the Pashtun ''hegemony'' on so called minorities I say yes it was OK, too. Why? One and the main reason was that the royal house self invited foreigners to the country. It started with Amanullah Khan making deals with Russia and ended with fighting against Gulbuddin and Pakistan. But just be serious. If Massoud would have been a pure Pashtun you guys had celebrated him already as a new Baba e Millat, right? Unfortunately, you like it or not, many of the Dari-zubans you hate so much have Pashtun wifes. Qanuni, Ismael Khan, Dostum´s mother is an Alizai, Massoud´s brother, Spanta, mother of Bachi Saqqau Habibullah Kalakani (even married a royal Muhammadzai woman) ... all of them have/had Pashtun wifes/mothers but noone talk about them. If Darizubans really hate Pashtuns why they marry Pashtun women? You should better know that non-Pashtuns suffered greatly under Pashtuns from the times of Dost Muhammad to day and they do not want more any Pashtun ruling them. That is understandable. They experienced the past and do not want to fall back to the old days. F.ex. many Pashtun tribes did not pay any taxes but non-Pashtuns had to pay. Many regions and lands of them were overran by Jaji, Mangal, Tochi and Zadran tribes who drove them out from their native countries and Pashtuns in the north started to colonize their regions. You would do the same if Tajiks or Uzbeks do the same in your regions. They were not allowed to express their feelings freely, organize themself as an own nation or speak their own language. They were oppressed. The Taliban era was just the sweetbitter taste of their experiences. You need to understand that. The same way Pashtuns do not want anyone stand over them, they do not want anyone dictating them anything, specially not who they are or what language they speak and what they have to do.

Hi Kabulzada, welcome...and I can understand your point i.e., no matter how kind and benign you as a majority are to a minority, no one likes the self-assigned "elder-brotherhood" role of the majority. All people like to be considered and treated as equal. It is in human nature. The point is, political rights should be guaranteed by the constitution not by the good/benign intentions of an individual or community having assigned himself/itself the role of the elder brother.

That is the point I have emphasized i.e., there is no way you can restore the old Pashtun-centeric (perceived or real) order in Afghanistan. At most what can be done is, a balance of power can be achieved in which every community considers itself an owner and share-holder. And that is what Pashtuns should aim at. They should focus on themselves and on the broader Pashtun unity, integration, and development.

Ahmad Shah Massoud made a mistake that he tried to exclude Pashtuns once he was able to grab Kaabul. I think that was not politically wise of him. But again that was a civil war kind of situation with little room for political negotiation.

But anyhow, this is Afghanistan's internal matter. And I am not qualified to make any suggestion or comment (sorry for the comment).

[Toramana]

Jalalabad self is not a Pashtun centre. The regional province yes, but the city not. Qandahar, Quetta and Peshawar can become centres but for Quetta we need to be very carefully. Baluch brothers have an eye on the region

I disagree...Jalalabad has the potential to be at least a middle rank city (has population density, sufficient territory, networked to adjoining areas e.g. Kunar, Laghman, probably also Paktiya...besides there is a main highway/tradeway connecting Kabul to Karachi passing through it...So it can be a regional transit as well as a local hub).

About Quetta also, I disagree. Quetta is a pre-dominently Pashtun city. Baluch leadership knows it and has accepted that reality. It was the center of British Baluchistan whereas Qalat was the state of the Baluch people.

[Albani_Rahmat_Kabulzada]

Hi Kabulzada, welcome...and I can understand your point i.e., no matter how kind and benign you as a majority are to a minority, no one likes the self-assigned "elder-brotherhood" role of the majority. All people like to be considered and treated as equal. It is in human nature. The point is, political rights should be guaranteed by the constitution not by the good/benign intentions of an individual or community having assigned himself/itself the role of the elder brother.

That´s the point. Non-Pashtuns were not equal to Pashtuns and the Taliban regime just devided the society much deeper along the ethnical and linguistical line. Taliban replaced high educated Tajiks tough they never ever had visited a school. The ministre of education was f.ex. a former donkey-seller. They forced their own attitudes on other people by force. Forbidde them to celebrate their own identity and culture. Dari was forbidden in the public. Pashtu became the lingua franca in the country. And that´s a thing the non-Pashtuns do not want to face again and therefore they will do anything to prevent any Taliban or their-like people from power. To the time of Abdurrahman Khan f.ex. non-Pashtuns took their destiny self to their hands but with Abdurahman Khan Pashtun ultra-nationalists and islamic extremists arised and tried to diminish the non-Pashtuns from any influence, neverlessness the ruling Pashtun house kept ''Tajik'', ironically.

Ahmad Shah Massoud made a mistake that he tried to exclude Pashtuns once he was able to grab Kaabul. I think that was not politically wise of him. But again that was a civil war kind of situation with little room for political negotiation.

But Massoud had to grab on Kabul. Massoud had even supporters among the old Parcham and Khalqi elitists. The Parchamis, called as ''Bacha-ha-y e Kabul'', the Khalqi´s a long arm of Pakistani Pashtuns with sense for socialism, both parties had members who favoured for Massoud. It was general Frozan, a high ranking Tajik or Uzbek general of the army who cooperated with Massoud and many other high ranking officiers. Hadn´t Massoud tries to grab on Kabul, Kabul would be today a province for every kind of foreigners or the city self wouldn´t exist more. Hizb-e Wahdat, Dostum´s party and ISI with their men such Gulbuddin had all interests to install themself there. That Kabul kept Kabul is because of Massoud. Beside that, Kabul was and is to large part a Tajik province and city. 80% of the province live in the city where majority are Tajiks. So he did it also from a ethnical point. To defend them. The claim Massoud wanted to power for himself of for his own party is a lie and ISI propaganda like everyother propaganda that can only created by ISI. Arabs have realized and love today Massoud, only Pakis don´t. When the Mujaheddin came to power they called every fraction to a round table and everyone got a sit. Gulbuddin, Sayyaf, Khalili, Ismael Khan... all of them and some of them even wanted to bring foreign influence to the parliament, such as ISI, Wahabits, Pashtuns from Pashtunistan, Arabs and settle them there. The war did not finish because of ethnocentrism among our Pashtun brothers. I don´t insult you but that is a fact. It was Gulbuddin who ran toward Peshawar and propagated against ''Bachi Saqqaw'' (also read the book the Pashtun fascist Ismael Yun wrote under the pseudonym Ashraf Afghan under the title Bachi-Saqqaw-i Dowomi'' (The Second Waterbearer)). Now tell me, is that OK? I always read and listen to Pashtuns who have nothing good to say about Massoud just because either they do not know anything about the political struggles on that time or because of Massoud´s ethnicity. No matter which factor is the reason both lead to one assumptation and that is that Massoud was fought ''from power'' because of his ethnicity. Isn´t that true? Deep in your hearts you know I am right. Wouldn´t have been there Massoud and the rest of te fractions, today possibly Pakistan had already annected Afghanistan as a fifth province. And we all know that the Taliban are Pashtun nationalists and that Talibanism is primerly a Pashtun movement to esablish itself in Kabul under the banner of a Pashtun identity that failed through the non-Pashtuns the last 2half centuries.

Unfortunately I tried to post three videos which interests Pakistan have in Afghanistan but the forum does not work with me.

I disagree...Jalalabad has the potential to be at least a middle rank city (has population density, sufficient territory, networked to adjoining areas e.g. Kunar, Laghman, probably also Paktiya...besides there is a main highway/tradeway connecting Kabul to Karachi passing through it...So it can be a regional transit as well as a local hub).

If you think so. The school books, the books for university, the medical school all of them are teached in from Iran brought Persian books.

About Quetta also, I disagree. Quetta is a pre-dominently Pashtun city. Baluch leadership knows it and has accepted that reality. It was the center of British Baluchistan whereas Qalat was the state of the Baluch people.

Quetta is dominated by Pashtun brothers but it is not a Pashtun city. By logic, it is a multi-ethnical and multi-cultural city with Pashtuns, Uzbeks, Hazaras, Tajiks, Baluchs, Sikhs, Hindus, Panjabis, Jats and so on. I was there 6 month long. Quetta becomes today a bulk, a fortress or a stronghold of Urdu. Sad enough. And Baluchs claim on Quetta, too.