Islam is just a religion like any other religion

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

I thought she was, because she mentioned to Afghanlady, that she might have misunderstood a verse.

Thank you, shlombay.

Do you have any argument for your convictions or its just your faith based on some misunderstoof verse of QURAN?

[muhsina]

Dear MWMWM
I would urge you to believe in whatever you believe but please read my post again and again.You need help buddy.
You see dreamweaver and adobe photoshop is one thing which you are good at but you need to honestly atleast understand what is being said. No more arguments till you prove that ISLAM is superior from nuetral sources for reasons I have mentioned in my post. If you cant then accept all religions are equal.
Thank you.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Dear MWMWM
I would urge you to believe in whatever you believe but please read my post again and again.You need help buddy.
You see dreamweaver and adobe photoshop is one thing which you are good at but you need to honestly atleast understand what is being said. No more arguments till you prove that ISLAM is superior from nuetral sources for reasons I have mentioned in my post. If you cant then accept all religions are equal.
Thank you.

Why would I need neutral sources?

Is not the fact that all religions claim superiority enough to show that they are not equal. What other proof do you want? That was your own argument. no?

So, how is it possible to find neutral sources? Then, the next request of yours will be to find other neutral sources that prove other religions correct. This will go in circles.

Do you see the flaw in your logic?

Don't let pride get in the way?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

ofcourse not. She is one of the most educated members on PF but she is not Muslim.

notice the pattern? She thanks Gulalai, Muhsina and they all said Islam is not the truth. I noticed this about her back in March. I spoke with a few other people who she is close with and they all verified my claims.

Abu Jahl was known as Abul Hakam.

I don't have problems with Qrratugai believing whatever it is that she wants, but her views are not Islamic.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Muhsina khore,

Why don't you ask Qrratugai why she is a Muslim. This should also solve the issue.

She must be a Muslim because she thinks it to be better than other religions. no?

So, Qrratugai, come forward and tell us why you are a Muslim. You will be helping your friend, a lot.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Muhsina Khor,

You are right from a non-Muslim point of view they are all wrong equally.

but Qrratugai is a Muslim who wants to one day even writes about Islam and for her to say the same unIslamic thing like you did is unacceptable. She says she is Muslim. Being Muslim means following the Quran and believing the Quran is superior to the Vedas.

the minute you say Quran is more powerful than Vedas Islam can never equal any Religion. Because we are biased as Muslims we follow Islam.

Beautiful point.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

If all religions are not equal then why does Qrratagai call herself a Muslim, Muhsina?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Muhsina, you ridiculed us for believing in Islam and calling ourselves Muslims because we believe it to be superior. Yet, you have failed to pose the same question from your friend: why does she call herself a Muslim and not "all-faiths" instead.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Meemwawmeemnoon, If she doesn't want to answer she is probably not Muslim like her buddies I guess. Just let it be, the questions you are asking her will force her views to be contradicted. I know what you are doing and she doesn't want to fall into the trap cause she knows her claims were wrong. Doesnt the silence mean anything to you?


As to the topic from a non-Muslim point of view I agree. From a Muslimah like myself I can write a book on how I disagree.

You are wise my beloved sister. I wish I could give more "thank yous."

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

This thread really showed who Qrratagai really is. I never thought that I would doubt her being a Muslim, despite disagreeing with her on many issues. NEVER...

I just thought we were disagreeing on the intricate aspects of the some issues.

I am so shocked and awed...

I know this is but a forum, we don't know each other, but to pollute Islam with semantics because of a good command of English is really heart-breaking.

Don't waste your energy and time, go and invest your energy and time somewhere more productive. You could never bring Islam down, not even from within.

Irshad Manji is the scholar on Islam now, in the West. Islam is still standing, she has not been able to bring it down, just as Salman Rushdie was not able to. We could go back into history, and no one has been able to bring it down.

Don't try...

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

يُرِيدُونَ لِيُطْفِؤُوا نُورَ اللَّهِ بِأَفْوَاهِهِمْ وَاللَّهُ مُتِمُّ نُورِهِ وَلَوْ كَرِهَ الْكَافِرُونَ

[61:8]They desire to extinguish the light of Allah with the breath of their mouths, but Allah will perfect His light, even if the disbelievers hate it.

هُوَ الَّذِي أَرْسَلَ رَسُولَهُ بِالْهُدَى وَدِينِ الْحَقِّ لِيُظْهِرَهُ عَلَى الدِّينِ كُلِّهِ وَلَوْ كَرِهَ الْمُشْرِكُونَ

[61:9] He it is Who has sent His Messenger with the guidance and the Religion of truth, that He may cause it to prevail over all religions, even if those who associate partners with God hate it.

[Khan Gul]

I asked you what proof do you have that your religion is superior [which means that if you cant provide one it means all are equal] so you quoted the verses of quran. I told you that it is illogical to quote from your own source as the other person will not believe in your source so you have to adopt some nuetral or areed upon way to prove that your relgion is superior and if you cant prove it that means all the religions are on the same footiung and hence you should not brag about your relgion. To that you are drawing some conclusion which no sane person who knows abc of logic will corroborate.

So prove that your religion is superior from nuetral sources [not quoting your own source [quran] otherwise accept that all religions are equal.

Muhsina,
I feel Qrratugai is a good human being and a good Muslim and that my friends were too quick to pass judgments.
Now, regarding your post above, perhaps you fail to realize that the debate was between Muslims. One claiming all religions to be equal while others refuting this claim. So, your post would have made sense if the debate was between agnostic/atheist and Muslims. Anyway, from a believer’s point of view Shlombay has answered you beautifully. Let me quote him again:

“Islam from a believers point of view is superior because we have faith and believe in it. If I'm not Muslim I will like Muhsina say they are either all right or all wrong why? Cause I think they are all equally unimportant.

but since I am a Muslim and I Follow Islam I can never say they are all equal.”
Why I believe Islam is superior to all other world religions is because I am a Muslim and I must believe this to remain a Muslim. Secondly, Muhsina, again from a believer's point of view, there are only three integral views of the world: the religious, the materialistic, and the Islamic. All variety of ideologies, philosophies, and teachings from the oldest time up to now can be reduced to one of these three basic world views. The first (Christianity) takes as its starting point the existence of the spirit, the second (materialism) the existence of matter, and the third (Islamic) the simultaneous existence of spirit and matter. If only matter exists, materialism would be the only consequent philosophy. On the contrary, if the spirit exists, then man also exists, and man’s life would be senseless without a kind of religion and morality. Islam is the name for the unity of spirit and matter, the highest form of which is man himself. The human life is complete only if it includes both the physical and the spiritual desires of the human being. All man’s failures are either because of the religious denial of man’s biological needs or the materialistic denial of man’s spiritual desires.

Keeping in mind the main point, we can say Islam means first to understand and to admit the primeval dualism of the world and then to overcome it. As Islam coincides with the very essence of life this is the reason why we say Islam is not equal to but superior to all other world religions.

[Roshina]

Why I believe Islam is superior to all other world religions is because I am a Muslim and I must believe this to remain a Muslim.

Secondly, Muhsina, again from a believer's point of view, there are only three integral views of the world: the religious, the materialistic, and the Islamic. All variety of ideologies, philosophies, and teachings from the oldest time up to now can be reduced to one of these three basic world views. The first (Christianity) takes as its starting point the existence of the spirit, the second (materialism) the existence of matter, and the third (Islamic) the simultaneous existence of spirit and matter. If only matter exists, materialism would be the only consequent philosophy. On the contrary, if the spirit exists, then man also exists, and man’s life would be senseless without a kind of religion and morality. Islam is the name for the unity of spirit and matter, the highest form of which is man himself. The human life is complete only if it includes both the physical and the spiritual desires of the human being. All man’s failures are either because of the religious denial of man’s biological needs or the materialistic denial of man’s spiritual desires.

Keeping in mind the main point, we can say Islam means first to understand and to admit the primeval dualism of the world and then to overcome it. As Islam coincides with the very essence of life this is the reason why we say Islam is not equal to but superior to all other world religions.

Thank you for your explanation! THIS is what I was looking for, a reason for a Muslim to claim that Islam is superior to all others (though, of course, followers of other religions, especially in theological studies who know what they're talking about and who have studied the whole superiority versus inferiority of certain religions over others in depth, will justify that theirs is superior for reasons X, Y, and Z -- which is exactly what makes them all equal, since it's a belief and not a universal fact. And since it's not a fact, it doesn't prove one religion's superiority over others, since all can argue this, but it's the argument the believers of that religion can use to justify the imagined superiority of their own religion).

Again, manana for the explanation! Khwdey mo jwandee lara!

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Thank you for your explanation! THIS is what I was looking for, a reason for a Muslim to claim that Islam is superior to all others (though, of course, followers of other religions, especially in theological studies who know what they're talking about and who have studied the whole superiority versus inferiority of certain religions over others in depth, will justify that theirs is superior for reasons X, Y, and Z -- which is exactly what makes them all equal, since it's a belief and not a universal fact. And since it's not a fact, it doesn't prove one religion's superiority over others, since all can argue this, but it's the argument the believers of that religion can use to justify the imagined superiority of their own religion).

Again, manana for the explanation! Khwdey mo jwandee lara!

Here we go again.

That is not what Khan Gul meant.

If you are going based on studies, then Existence of God is not a universal fact.

There are people who deny His Existence through logical arguments and there are people who accept His Existence through logical arguments.

So, are you saying that that those who believe that God exists and those who don't believe that God exists are equal?

The fact of the matter is that God does exist, it is a universal fact. A UNIVERSAL FACT. He exists and He has revealed Himself by revealing a book in which He has literally spoken. The Quran is the literal word of God. In it He has said that Islam is the only religion in His sight.

Now, for you to say that all religions are equal would mean that you would have to:

1. Reject that the God of Islam is the correct God.
2. If the God of Islam is not the correct God, then the Quran is false.
3. If the Quran is false, then it is a false claim that it is making by claiming that Islam is the only religion acceptable in the sight of Allah.

Come on...get a grip on yourself.

The fact that a Muslim claims that Islam is right and a Hindu claims that Hinduism is right and Jew claims that Judaism is right is proof enough to show that they are not equal.

Khan Gul made it clear that, by quoting Shlombay, that as per those who reject religion they are all equal. If you believe that all religions are equal, which you have the right to, it means that you reject religion. Otherwise, it would be contradictory for you to adhere to one and not all of them. Those who reject religion are honest. They could careless for religion, hence, all religions are equal to them: no religion appeals to them.

Just so you know, Khan Gul did not say that all religions are equal. Don't flatter yourself.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

My question to you, Qrratugai, do you believe that Allah is the real God?