Kite Runner Debate thread

[kakargirl]

Where's the proof it was in tribal areas? The only people i hear this from are Farsiwans from the north who participate in such a filthy act (Frontline: Bacha Bazi)

You didn't answer what a Talib is, but i will for you:

Talib طالیب is one who seeks knowledge. since Talib is a Masculine noun, it's takes it's Direct plural (an), which turns to Taliban. Also, it's oblique form you add an (o) which turns it to Talibano.

Your comments on Bacha bazi are based in pure and unadulterated ignorance. You are obviously the garden variety farsiban who appears to want to blame your dog's death, your mom's diminished paycheck, the creation of Satan, and all other ills on the doorstep of the ISI.

Had you done even a little reading on the history of Bacha Bazi you would have blushed at how stupid you look right now.

Eugene Schuyler discussed the roots of Bacha Bazi lie in Turkestani countries (i.e. where your roots are).

He discusses directly visualizing this phenomena in the 1870s:

"These batchas, or dancing-boys, are a recognised institution throughout the whole of the settled portions of Central Asia, though they are most in vogue in Bokhara and the neighbouring Samarkand. In the khanate of Khokand public dances have for some years been forbidden."

"These batchas are as much respected as the greatest singers and artistes are with us. Every movement they make is followed and applauded, and I have never seen such breathless interest as they excite, for the whole crowd seems to devour them with their eyes, while their hands beat time to every step. If a batcha condescends to offer a man a bowl of tea, the recipient rises to take it with a profound obeisance, and returns the empty bowl in the same way, addressing him only as Taxir, 'your Majesty', or Kulluk 'I am your slave'. Even when a batcha passes through the bazaar all who know him rise to salute him with hands upon their hearts, and the exclamation of Kulluk! and should he deign to stop and rest in any shop, it is thought a great honour."

Here is the link to the primary source with the quotes on page 132:

http://books.google.com/books?id=oLh...page&q&f=false

He goes on to describe that the Mullah class actually stepped in and banned this practice that was in vogue in your sick neck of the woods in Bukhara/Samarkand.

His book is called Turkestan and deals extensively with the sick roots of this practice coming straight from your homeland.

In the future, before you dare to claim that the tribal people started this practice bring us a primary classical source. Otherwise, keep your mouth shut.

excellent post wror, you put every word perfectly .

[Albani_Rahmat_Kabulzada]

Where's the proof it was in tribal areas? The only people i hear this from are Farsiwans from the north who participate in such a filthy act (Frontline: Bacha Bazi)

You didn't answer what a Talib is, but i will for you:

Talib طالیب is one who seeks knowledge. since Talib is a Masculine noun, it's takes it's Direct plural (an), which turns to Taliban. Also, it's oblique form you add an (o) which turns it to Talibano.

First of all, Bacha Bazi is not related with northern Afghanistan and have it´s root primerly in the south and eastern Afghanistan and beyond it´s border to Pakistan. It is a fact that such a filthy act was always part of tribalists. Tribalist people of the past were f.ex. the Ghaznavid Turks. Mahmud Ghaznavi had loved Fayaz. Murad II, the sultan of the ottoman of the baylik tribe loved many young boys. ... Bacha Bazi and homosexuality was even mentioned before 09/11 in Afghanistan and even before the soviet intevene. The first one who mentioned it was Al-Biruni describing the customs of the region´s people, followed by Jouzjani in his udud-al-halam. Than the Mughals mentioned it, too and last but not least the colonialists of South-East Asia.

http://articles.sfgate.com/2010-08-2...t-hamid-karzai

http://www.digitaljournal.com/articl...Sexual_Slavery

http://www.afghanistan-blog.de/?p=4348

http://www.bouhammer.com/2010/01/and...ove-thursdays/

http://silkroadsandsiamesesmiles.com...homosexuality/

That´s a new phenomena in the north. We can not deny much of the deficites in our society. We just cut off ourself. So why not stopping in and talking about it in the public to bring shame to those who do such an unhumanily and unislamic thing. However, discussing such issues means also that these will bring many sensitive things with them. So we should try don´t losing respect to eachother. Losing respect will break the discussion on this and we won´t be succesful to prevent such stupid customs from our culture and society.

[Albani_Rahmat_Kabulzada]

"When the Afghan state broke down and the Soviets arrived, the Persians helped the Hazara arm, organize and throw the Pashtuns out of Bamiyan."

There are no Pashtuns in Bamian. Only Ismaeli Tajiks. The rest of your text is your own interpretations. The Hitler stuff was reality. During the WWII the Pashtun elitists were strongly influenced by Nazi Germany and tried to propagate a pure ''Aryan'' race. The Afghan Mellat party was one of their main movements and the roots to many evil acts in Afghanistan. Baba Farhad came to Afghanistan from Germany with the same ideas Nazi Germani backed, including the propaganda of ''purity''. Maybe you should ask Khaled Husseini self what he thought when he wrote the book. And even if he is a Qazalbash (he never claimed or told that anywhere) he is half Pashtun. So why should he insult his own mother? But your assumptation that the good Pashtun is only those who speak Dari is based on Kabuli Pashtuns feelings. The educated and westernized ones. That´s why many of them speak only Dari. Are Tajiks guilty for that? Are you serious?

"These batchas, or dancing-boys, are a recognised institution throughout the whole of the settled portions of Central Asia, though they are most in vogue in Bokhara and the neighbouring Samarkand. In the khanate of Khokand public dances have for some years been forbidden."

These were my words. The Uzbek rulers, specially the Mangit of Bukhara were famous of beeing pedophile. Then, Uzbeks were tribalists, unlike today. BUT WHY SHOULD WE CARE ABOUT OTHERS WHEN WE SELF ARE INFECTED BY SUCH DIRTY CUSTOMS?? DO WE REALLY SEEK FOR AN EXCUSE ON OTHERS BY POINTING FINGERS ON THEM WHY WE HAVE SUCH A DIRTY CUSTOM, TOO???

[Albani_Rahmat_Kabulzada]

@kabulzada,

Bachabazi is not even a pashtun word, its a parsi word. read what BarakzaiAbdali has posted and he gave you a reference. you stupidly claim that bachabazi only happens in tribal societies while everyone with half a brain can see its not true. Bachabazi happens everywhere i mean in europe, north south america, africa and the whole world. There are peadophile rings everywhere, the sex of the victim doesn't matter. Anyone who tries to say that bachabazi is restricted to one area or ethnicity has an agenda.

BTW, if you think think that Bachabazi is new to the north i.e "parsiwans" then can you tell me why persian literature is filled with love for young boys and homosexuality?

I give you a very pro persian iranian source, have a look
Encyclopædia Iranica | Articles

Timuktu Brother,

you are 100% right. It´s a Dari word but it is also a new phenomene. But this word exist also in Pashtu. Bacha and Bazi. Bacha Bazi is also not the real word of the custom. It´s a new invented word. The thing is that it is widespreaden in tribal societies compared to non-tribal societies like the western ones. Among Turks, Indians, Mongols, Arabs .... in the middle-age it was widespreaden among these people, just the people did not talk about it. It was never bounded on any ethnicity. Even in the modern states pedophelia is a common thing and happens evryday somewhere.

BTW, if you think think that Bachabazi is new to the north i.e "parsiwans" then can you tell me why persian literature is filled with love for young boys and homosexuality?

You mean Maulana and Attar? That was the love of a pupil to his teacher and guidance. You mean Saadi? Saadi was praising the beauty of beeing young. Only people who do not understand really this language would claim such stupid things. But I do not deny that it exists in the Persian literature, specially in Iran, but also do in Pashtu literature. Feroz Kunduzi sings mostly Pashtun poems who praised males and ''their lovely round butts''. And unlike your claims, there are not much Dari poets of the middle age who wrote such verses and not many and it is a differnet to write about it or do it. Indeed, homosexuality was even in ancient times a common practice in our societies and always was and always stay but is that an excuse (at least for pedophiles) that we have such customs in our society? We are Muslims, believe in God, Islam, Qoran, it´s prophets. We are not people of Ghomorrha and Sodom. So we should think how we can prevent such acts against children, that would also include to forbidde 80years old men to marry 12years or younger old girls.

[graveyardofempires]

Timuktu Brother,

you are 100% right. It´s a Dari word but it is also a new phenomene. But this word exist also in Pashtu. Bacha and Bazi. Bacha Bazi is also not the real word of the custom. It´s a new invented word. The thing is that it is widespreaden in tribal societies compared to non-tribal societies like the western ones. Among Turks, Indians, Mongols, Arabs .... in the middle-age it was widespreaden among these people, just the people did not talk about it. It was never bounded on any ethnicity. Even in the modern states pedophelia is a common thing and happens evryday somewhere.

You mean Maulana and Attar? That was the love of a pupil to his teacher and guidance. You mean Saadi? Saadi was praising the beauty of beeing young. Only people who do not understand really this language would claim such stupid things. But I do not deny that it exists in the Persian literature, specially in Iran, but also do in Pashtu literature. Feroz Kunduzi sings mostly Pashtun poems who praised males and ''their lovely round butts''. And unlike your claims, there are not much Dari poets of the middle age who wrote such verses and not many. Indeed, homosexuality was even in ancient times a common practice in our societies and always was and always stay but is that an excuse (at least for pedophiles) that we have such customs in our society? We are Muslims, believe in God, Islam, Qoran, it´s prophets. We are not people of Ghomorrha and Sodom. So we should think how we can prevent such acts against children, that would also include to forbidde 80years old men to marry 12years or younger old girls.

you are going way out of your limite
this is a pashutn forum and if you are here to spread your anti pashtun bias than you need to get banned like the ones before you.

bacha bazi is a farsi and that explains it all.

one fo the famouse bachabaz was rumi.

[Nokia_Apridy]

Premezda ............Afghanistan ka sanga Kamyab sho da Film da ta soch kray da ?...

[graveyardofempires]

Premezda ............Afghanistan ka sanga Kamyab sho da Film da ta soch kray da ?...

kamyab shoo lol
der kam haqel saray yee noo.

da film kabul ke banned shooo

[graveyardofempires]

^
lol

[Nokia_Apridy]

kha bya Al jazera wala ghol khuralo.........da Khalid interview ka....??

[Albani_Rahmat_Kabulzada]

you are going way out of your limite
this is a pashutn forum and if you are here to spread your anti pashtun bias than you need to get banned like the ones before you.

bacha bazi is a farsi and that explains it all.

one fo the famouse bachabaz was rumi.

Is Bacha and Bazi not adoptet by Pashtu from Dari? Rumi was not homosexual. He had even a wife and children. He was a Sufi.

In tribal societies everyone knows each other and it is very shameful if one engages in such an act as bachabazi, the whole tribe would be dishonoured.

I do know that homosexuality was quite common in ancient greece and Alexander the great himself was a bisexual. With the formation of greco-bactrian empire and greco influence on central asia, its possible that wide acceptance of homosexuality was brought to central asia by the greeks where it was very common and not a bad thing. i am not disputing that.

No brother, homosexuality is very old in human society. It even exists among animals. I guess that it is even biological. Don´t ask me why and how.

Can you plz give me any instances of pashtun poets praising homosexuality or bachabazi.

The great Abdul Rahman Baba f.ex. who self was influenced by Maulana. He ran away with a boy he called by himself ''Majnoon''. Also Khushal Khan Khattak had some poems adoring boys. However, one does not need to have a literature to see that there is existing homosexuality in our society. There are many thousands of articles on Google written about Afghanistan and that problem. We need more people like you and we wouldn´t have any problems. Neither with our own nor with our neighbours.

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

Kabulzadah this isn't tajikam.com where u can
Make up whatever u want

We have people here who will make u look
Very stupid

Don't be confused by some of the dumber
Posters

U stupidly claimed like an uneducated fool
That pedastry started in pakhtun areas and then gave
No proof

U were then provided proof of Persian and
Turkic links to it

This isn't YouTube where u and other khorasanis
Make fake accounts and lie like cowards

Pakhtuns are Hospitable and u are more than
Welcome to stay and if anyone insults u other pakhtana
Will defend ur rights

But dont come here to lie because were gonna catch
Ya biitch azz in that lie. There are academics and professionals here
...real educated types

Lol@this clown saying the ghaznavid Turks were tribal. They were slaves.
Where the janissaries tribal too? Lol

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

According to kabulzadah if my last name is sanzarkhel and I'm from Quetta
I'm more inclined to bang boys then if my last name was ibrahimi from mazar

[Albani_Rahmat_Kabulzada]

Dear Amir, I am a humanist, even an idealist, not an ethnocentric man. I was never on that site, nor I will visit that site. I saw some videos of them on Youtube and they devide Afghanistan and it´s people. That´s against my family. So please don´t attack me dear brother for doing nothing.

Lol@this clown saying the ghaznavid Turks were tribal. They were slaves.
Where the janissaries tribal too? Lol

Turks were always tribal. The Ghaznavids were made of many Turkish tribes that supported Alp-Tigin. the word Ghaznavid is not a tribal name but a regional name taken from Ghazank (Ghazna).

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Dear Amir, I am a humanist, even an idealist, not an ethnocentric man. I was never on that site, nor I will visit that site. I saw some videos of them on Youtube and they devide Afghanistan and it´s people. That´s against my family. So please don´t attack me dear brother for doing nothing.



Turks were always tribal. The Ghaznavids were made of many Turkish tribes that supported Alp-Tigin. the word Ghaznavid is not a tribal name but a regional name taken from Ghazank (Ghazna).

Divide? Quit playing coy. You are about as genuine as a dog in heat. Regarding your commentary about me lying regarding Hosseini's ethnicity, he told me this directly and has no qualm about it whatsoever.

Regarding the movie Osama, you know damn well it is not based on a true story 1 bit or 1 byte. He named it Osama and released it closely after 9/11 to cash in.

"Hosseini was born in Kabul as a member of the Qizilbash clan."

He affirmed this and spent time comfortably in Tehran with his brethren there.

http://www.eons.com/groups/topic/106...haled-Hosseini

[kakargirl]

Divide? Quit playing coy. You are about as genuine as a dog in heat. Regarding your commentary about me lying regarding Hosseini's ethnicity, he told me this directly and has no qualm about it whatsoever.

Regarding the movie Osama, you know damn well it is not based on a true story 1 bit or 1 byte. He named it Osama and released it closely after 9/11 to cash in.

"Hosseini was born in Kabul as a member of the Qizilbash clan."

He affirmed this and spent time comfortably in Tehran with his brethren there.

http://www.eons.com/groups/topic/106...haled-Hosseini

wror my father is proud of what you said to him on his face, hosseini is a drunk who writes propaganda against pashtuns to make us look bad how low can one stoop just make dollars .