Where are Muslims and Pashtuns in the list

[ScimitarXEdge]

The concern about environmental issues, climate change, pollution, desertification , deforestation ,contamination and other ecological disdorders and aberrations is appreciable but preferring rain forest to the modern life with banks and other institutions is equal to nullifying the whole progress human being made after stone age. I have seen humans living in the rain forest of Brazil and they live in a wild , uncivilized way , may be happy but this is not what human should live as they are a bit better in their lives than animals or plants.

The moderate way is scientific and technological advancement plus taking care of the mother earth. Developed world is conscious of this fact and is trying to control the climate change, ozone depletion and other environmental problems.

Ironically this is the third world or the underdeveloped or developing world which is more polluted and one can feel the diference between the streets of Africa, south Asia and the Western europe and North America.

Nobel prize is necessary to encourage the scientists and scholars. Its like the trophy a sportsperson receives on her or his achievement.

One reason we see much pollution in this worlds is because we have an Open Air System, adverse changes in Atmospheric Quality in different regions due to different pressure/density gradients and their shifts due to human interference end up transferring themselves to other regions or affect their gradients and sinks.

The Third world is becoming polluted yes, but they are actually the LEAST percentage contributors. The G8 Nations Combined account for 80-90% of Environmental Degradation Globally, either within their borders or externally through various industrial investments world wide in various forms. Most third world pollution is a product of Capitalistic ventures for industrializing, both for cheap labor and laxed Environmental Concerns due to political pressures on poorer nations and Market dependency (all of which is artificially imposed by the way). Also there is a great deal of Toxic Dumping being done in Third World countries which originates from developed countries; also apart of the "agreements" they implement. And even third world Nations, for example in Pakistan and India, who have a foreign dependent industrial market, end up dumping things all in their backyards; by these investors from so called "Developed Nations". That isn't to say it isn't being done in developed Nations; Developed Nations have gone into underground dumping, which has proven to have dramatic ecological consequences.

The idea that Rain Forest Cultures are somehow living in some inferior condition is I'm afraid to say a largely Hollywoodized fantasy as well as the idea that it somehow nullifies Human Progress from the Stone Age is a misrepresentation. Firstly the concept of progress being used here is flawed; progress is being argued by circular premises, is is only viewed as nullifying progress because we view Industrial/Capitalist/G8 Societies as the measure of Progress. But What makes it so? Progress loosely implies "movement towards betterment/well being"; but we find the global effects of G8 standards as largely destructive on every level imaginable; this is not how I would measure progress. As stated earlier, the lifestyle of rainforest is what in part contributes to the intricate ecological balances which sustain our entire planet. Trivializing it is undermining it's real significance. I'm not arguing that we all live in the rainforest, I am however arguing that the way G8/Industrial societies operate is detrimental to human well being and planetary well being if we want real progress we need to return to ecologically harmonious patterns of life which we had before the interference of Imperialists/Capitalists and the like. It wasn't a utopia but it sustained us. Right now we can barely even sustain ourselves.

While it's true that there is this new global consciousness regarding ecological and environmental concerns; it's motivation is not to restore the Environment to it's most proper state but how we can sustain our current status quo. The reality is, we can't; the G8-based lifestyle is unsustainable. There are solutions of course; but the most effective and promising solutions would be in direct conflict with Industrial Society. The reason being is that it would require large scale forestation of formerly deforested regions which would require the dismantling of most present Industrial Infrastructure in places like North America. The alleged "Moderate Solutions" are not very moderate at all, because it will still have high energy demand, something even with breakthroughs in Alternative Energies, they cannot provide and also the rapid consumption/production makes land use extremely scarce. There are promising solutions with Nanotechnology, but the actual developmental current which would make nanomachines capable of doing such large scale work is extremely slow, we may not have that much time; We would need Nanomachines which completely alter physical states of matter in gas-solid deposition in large scales. Even if we develop such means we can no longer operate industrial society the way it has been, we would have to use science and technology in small scales.

I disagree that we need things like the Nobel Prize; if scientists are motivated by shallow things like prestige and pride, they're not really motivated by loftier pursuits like knowledge and benefitting mankind. I'm a believer that knowledge should be it's own reward.

[Badlun]

This is useful discussion. I appreciate the longing for the pure nature, the utopia and the state of the world before the Industrial revolution. This is to go back and cover a distance in centuries. We have to live again in 1500s or back.

If we compare the human development index now and in15th century we find more longevity, less diseases, less plagues, less wars , more ease and better life standards as a whole. I will prefer to live in todays world to the life before industrial revolution. The solution is both this progress and less environmental hazards. Modern science is working on it. Laws are more strict. Industries are not allowed near inhabited areas. Technology based on the use o CNG, Ethonol, electricity , hydrogen is less pollutant. Family planning is now a norm. Pollutaion bomb is coming under control.

Lets hope for the best and live happily with development and save our planet at the same time. This is a challange for humanity and science will enable us to face this challange. The solution is not leaving all development but having it with with responsibility and sustainibility by better management practices and optimum resource utilization.

Nobel Prize is recognizing some one talent and achievemnt. I dont see any thing bad if we motivate and encourage great efforts.

[ScimitarXEdge]

As much as I admire your zeal; I believe you're missing the point entirely.


Modern Industrial society is fundamentally unsustainable and it's destructive; it will eventually lead to it's own demise; and that will make every plague seem like a tear drop. No amount of regulations, changed policies or alternative solutions can help because the problem is the lifestyle itself, and this lifestyle is manufactured by our misuse/overuse of technology. "Ease" and "Longevity" have put us in a condition which is a completely unnatural state that go against our intrinsic drives and ecological relationships. That is evidence enough that ultimately such an approach is self destructive and is setting up conditions worse than a plague.

There will never be a utopia, whether a technological one or nature centered one; but that's not the goal, the goal is returning to a condition which is ecologically balanced and therefore conducive to our natural drives and in turn our ecological relationships to Nature. This is simply not achievable in the current paradigm of industrial society because they're two opposing forces. It will destroy itself; then the only option will be to return back to a more Nature-centered life. If I had that option now I'd definitely take it. But right now the world is under threat, so those who understand this problem need to confront it directly and defeat it.

Recognizing efforts is not necessarily a bad thing, in fact it's a good thing; but we don't need some type of special Prize or glamorization to make into a status symbol. For those who truly seek Knowledge, then Knowledge itself is it's own reward.

[graveyardofempires]

noble prize is nothing but a way to monopolize on knowledge and give some type of medal to some of the worst people alive.

they gave one of these to Obama for killing Afghan muslims.

why even discuss this non sense while we dont even recognize the "noble" prize as legimate.

[Badlun]

I would dare to repeat my stance that I prefer development with ecological responsability to going back to pre industrial revolution era. First its not possible second its not desirable.

I wonder why we are so much rejectionists that not a single Pashtun here lamented the act that we dont have a single nobel prize winner scientists. Instead we started challanging the institution of nobel prizes. How long we ll take refuge in this escapism and blaming others or our own pitfalls!

[ScimitarXEdge]

It's not only possible; it will happen within a couple of generations anyways; The type of society is not sustainable for human civilization to maintain for much longer. We won't have much choice left.

And whether it's desirable or not is just a facet of conditioning, some people see it as undesirable because they have been habituated with various civilizational scare tactics; but really the process alienated us from our inner drives and disposition; we need to reacquaint ourselves with who we really are, not look upon it with fear. When we can view ourselves honestly, it will not only be desirable but necessary.

You can't have something which operates on large scale ecological interference and then claim to operate on ecological responsibility. It's internally in conflict.

The reason why no one laments the Nobel Prize, is because there is no validity to lament over it. This is also why we challenge it; why should people feel bad for something which under critical analysis isn't valid to begin with. This is not escapism from pitfalls at all, because lacking a Nobel Prize is not a pitfall to begin with. In fact it is highlighting the escapism from the civilization decay which is masked by Nobel Prizes.

[Badlun]

I appreciate the concern for the mother nature and I agree that nature and environment are to be protected human being may lead a happy life. We shall have a discussion some where on the issues of environment and industrization and its negative efefcts. i really admire the way you present your case. However I am a staunch believer in science, technology and development. But we need people like you who reminds us of the negative aspects of the use of science. Optimist invented aeroplane while pessimist invented parachute and that we should have the horse power of pessimists but the brakes of pessimists.

All the nobel prize scientists are not evil doers.The contributions of science in the fields of medicine, human development, natural resources development, computer, aeroplanes, communication, agriculture, food, live stock, minerals, art, cinema, entertainment , internet, tourism and other fields is remarkable and denying this crystal clear fact is denying the sun in the sky.

This is really very dangrious that Pashtuns instead of becoming scientists and winners o international prizes reject such prizes or the achiements of science and scientists. This is a very gloomy picture. We all love to live in Europe and America but we dont want to make our own lands Europe and America. We want this poverty, pollution and misery for our fellow Pashtuns but ourselves enjoy the luxuries in the developed world. This a total paradoz and pure obscurantism.

[ScimitarXEdge]

This isn't about being a pessimist or optimist; but simply honest and realistic. It's not simply the negative effects that are the issue; it's the fact that this way of life isn't what we are meant for on a fundamental level. It's corruption and such corruptions are oppression, not just of the Earth, but of animals and humanity as well.

We don't love to live in Europe or America; we're here due to being compelled by constant interference and damaging the natural way of life people had and imposed dependence on their institutions, hence why we see poverty, pollution and such the world over.

What we want is not to live in luxury; but understanding that everything has manipulated to be subjugated by these institutions, we must defeat it internally to liberate our planet from their hold and restore everything to proper balance. This requires using certain contemporary means and processes not because it's the better way of living, but because that is the only way to undo the damage it has done.

we're not denying these developments; what we deny is the intrinsic merit of outside of the context of an artificial way of life that institutions such as Capitalism and Imperialism have imposed.

Poverty, pollution and misery as we see today is a direct result of this imbalance with Nature that people who believed that technocratic industrialization would be a solution have allowed to be engendered. Before that Pashtoons and other types of people lived simple , clean lives and were able to support and sustain themselves without any heavy dependency on magnified scale of resources.

[IamDZJ]

we are an underdeveloped nation scattered all over the globe. surely we don't have any scholars inventors or scientists in this list but we are also not sure who made this list, how old it is and if their names were omitted on purpose.
the current generation, the previous one or the one before that might not have given us much but none of them abandoned their families for peace of mind, self discovery or self fulfillment. those luxuries are sacrificed for family values that has us stick to each other regardless of the amount of crap we have been through for the last 30 years or more. success in life is not always measured by academic achievements.
if you are not an afghan then i suggest you go and search our history a bit. go live 30 or more years of what we have been living and then come back and talk to us about progress and achievements..
if you are a muslim, an afghan or a pakhtoon then i want to know what your excuse is for not being on that list. whatever makes your reason a lot more excusable than that of the rest of us??? stop mocking us by making us seem like a bunch of lazy barbaric animals who don't value education or strive for the betterment of our people and their future. we are a lot better than that.