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**Alchemist** · 01-20-2011, 01:32 PM

you want a trophy to feel special?

here is a cookie:

**Catya Sher** · 01-20-2011, 07:04 PM

Well, Doris Lessing one of the Nobel winners on the list,
WROTE a book about the Afghan refugees in 1987 called
"The Wind Blows Away Our Words".

It wasn't sensationally great. But it did help to bring international
attention to the Afghan war at that time with the Soviets.

She did feel strongly about the refugees, as shown by her statement about her subsequent book, The Fifth Child:

"Mrs. Lessing, too, was disturbed by the book, and by the pain she felt in writing it - ''so much pain, not all of which I can explain.'' She has spent much time thinking about why. ''I'm sure that everybody feels a kind of permanent anguish about what's going on in the world,'' she said, attempting to explain her reaction. ''This is such a common emotion. I think we even get used to it. Every time we pick up a newspaper there's something. It seems to me that one feels all the time a kind of anguish, a rage, of helplessness.
''I was in Afghanistan recently, and was looking at the refugee camps in Peshawar, in Pakistan - do you know the refugees are still coming out of Afghanistan? - which was just the most terrible thing I've ever seen,'' Mrs. Lessing said. ''Because I wasn't just looking at refugee camps in Peshawar. You suddenly remember that this is Mozambique, Eritrea, Tigre, I mean I can go on and on. You actually see this mass suffering -people living in holes in the ground, millions of people in conditions like these - and it's not something for which you can say, 'Oh, dear, what a pity,' and then go away..."

Now why were the countries mixed up on the list, the ones which say [Edit] -
Turkish novelist Orhan Pamuk listed as Ukrainian, for example.

There WERE some Palestinians and Egyptians who received Nobel Laureates.
A lot of Russians.

**ScimitarXEdge** · 01-20-2011, 09:40 PM

There are actually a few Muslims in the list like Ahmad Zewail and Abdul Salam is you consider him an actual Muslim, depends on your view, but no Pashtoons

But with that said, what consequence is being on the list which is manufactured only to patronize the works of a civilization which has done more harm than good to our planet?

Beneath the over inflated assertions of prestige, it's all an exercise in human arrogance and vanity; no enlightened person would care about such shallow displays of pomp.

If I ever have the opportunity to achieve the Nobel Prize, which is highly possible considering the work I'm doing; I would reject it so the world realizes what it really is, much ado about nothing.

**Wrayun** · 01-20-2011, 11:46 PM

A bunch of like minded people get together, pat each other on the back, and give each other awards. That is the noble prize. They didn't give on to Gandhi when alive and Bacha Khan, because only those who sucked up to Europe, get's these awards. There is no award for Che, or any other person that fought for the freedom of their people against the European cancer. They give these awards to Iranian, Arab, and Chinese dissenters. That's says enough.

**fzpz** · 01-21-2011, 12:15 AM

Al Gore?

Anyways they should give one to any chinese leader who all have taken over 600 million souls out of poverty, and given hope to a nation of over 1 billion. But no, rather an insignificant dissenter gets one.

**Roshina** · 01-21-2011, 12:18 AM

I lost all respect I ever had for this whole concept of the Nobel Prize (peace, literature, science, whatever else there is) after President Obama got one. Like, what the hell was up with that?!

So I personally don't take it seriously. However, I understand its significance worldwide. Just remember that it's always a biased decision made by a group of biased folks who know very little about the world-- they must, if they could think of Obama worthy of one when we've got thousands of people fighting for peace and justice all over the world.

**Badlun** · 01-21-2011, 07:35 AM

In the hundreds of names there are few Muslims mainly from Bnagladesh , Pakistan and Egypt(I think total 4). No one is Pashtun.

Instead of questioning the institution of Nobel Prize and its winners why not we ponder over the following for a little introspection and self improvement in a reformatory spirit
1. Do we have an alternative for Nobel prize if we are not satisfied from the criteria of Nobel Prize
2. Do we have few names of internationally known scientists, inventors, writers and others if we dont consider the winners of Nobel prizes as deserving ones

The purpose of this post is positive that Pashtuns and Muslims may struggle in the right direction to register their names in the echelons of science and other fields of modern knowledge.

**Wrayun** · 01-21-2011, 08:12 AM

Originally posted by osho View Post

In the hundreds of names there are few Muslims mainly from Bnagladesh , Pakistan and Egypt(I think total 4). No one is Pashtun.

Instead of questioning the institution of Nobel Prize and its winners why not we ponder over the following for a little introspection and self improvement in a reformatory spirit
1. Do we have an alternative for Nobel prize if we are not satisfied from the criteria of Nobel Prize
2. Do we have few names of internationally known scientists, inventors, writers and others if we dont consider the winners of Nobel prizes as deserving ones

The purpose of this post is positive that Pashtuns and Muslims may struggle in the right direction to register their names in the echelons of science and other fields of modern knowledge.

Brother, scientific advancement goes hand in hand with economical advancement. Forget Pukhtoons or Muslims here, how many Africans, South Americans, East Asians are on the list?

When your stomach is full, and live under fairly secured circumstances, scientific innovation will naturally happen. When the Muslims were rich, secure, their empire strong they were translating knowledge from around the world, advancing in mathematics, astrology, biology, invented the Scientific Method, the numerics that you use every day without which you can't even balance your checking account (try using roman numerals), the binary language (without it no computer base tech is possible), the algorithmic system, discovery of microorganisms (discovery of germs, diseases)...even the theory of evolution was suggested by Muslims before Darwin. The works of Akhwan Al Safa, were availible to Darwin in Europe when he came up with his theory of evolution. The Akhwan suggested that man developed from fish, to lower animal ape, and to a human being.

You can't look at Muslims, particularly the Pukhtoons, who have been through decades of instability, war after war, and expect them to be engineers. You need a secure, calmer atmosphere to fly kites and watch apples fall from trees....and ponder on them. Under war, and duress, thats not logically possible.

If Ahmed Shah Baba was as greedy as the Queen of England, and the ambitions of Afghans were as big as the colonizing British, one can only imagine how wealthy we would be by raping and pillaging the world.

**ScimitarXEdge** · 01-21-2011, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by osho View Post

In the hundreds of names there are few Muslims mainly from Bnagladesh , Pakistan and Egypt(I think total 4). No one is Pashtun.

Instead of questioning the institution of Nobel Prize and its winners why not we ponder over the following for a little introspection and self improvement in a reformatory spirit
1. Do we have an alternative for Nobel prize if we are not satisfied from the criteria of Nobel Prize
2. Do we have few names of internationally known scientists, inventors, writers and others if we dont consider the winners of Nobel prizes as deserving ones

The purpose of this post is positive that Pashtuns and Muslims may struggle in the right direction to register their names in the echelons of science and other fields of modern knowledge.

The problem I have with your statement is that it can be reversed; Instead of pondering why there are no Pashtun nobel laureates; perhaps we should question the construct of the Nobel Prize.

My father was discussing with a close friend of his an Indian Physicist, who was Hindu. His work was going to win the Nobel Prize, but he was rejected. Why you may ask? The British petitioned and rallied against his name being chosen for the Nobel Prize because this particular scientist was an Anti-British, Pro-Indian Independence Militant. He was apart of many Radical Indian Nationalist groups who were collaborating with the Germans and Japanese against the British Imperial presence. While I'm not patron of Nationalistic causes in general nor do I consider myself an ally of India or Hindus for that matter, I am a patron of Truth and Justice. Albeit this example is dated and perhaps we can argue the zeitgeist that formulates the thinkof these institutions may have been rectified to some degree; What situations like this demonstrate is that such standards and symbols of status are not measures of human betterment/progress but rather oriented towards trying to reaffirm and maintain the Global Status quo. Essentially tools to justify certain types of hegemony.

We are looking at the issue from the wrong angle; we're too overwhelmed by some manufactured measure of validity. Progress , scientific or otherwise isn't a pretigious list of names, Progress is Living in a way in the world where our Planet and everything on it is guarded as Sacred and not merely a tool for exploitation under the guise of scientific advancement. None of the Nobel Prizes in the world has stopped that; which comes to show the level of Advancement their achievements have really given to us.

We need to look at things differently; not by prizes but actual Merit.

**Badlun** · 01-22-2011, 08:14 AM

I agree that scientiic advancement is concopitant with economic advancement and vice versa. Hence the solution is that we should be economically advanced first and for the economic advancement we should learn those who are already economically advanced and they are G8, thus a model or us. There is not a single Muslim least Pashtun country in the G8.

I also agree that spiritual advancement and non material criteria of progress is also essential and thats why I like OSHO but we must strike a balance between material and non material, mundane and spiritual, physical and meta physical, abstract and concrete, Platonic and Aristotelian, para psychoilogical and psychological, sensual and extra sensual.No body can deny the usefulness of science and technology inspite of some of its negative aspects.

On the question of the institution of the Nobel prizes we should have an alternative if we are not satisied from the existing one but or that we must have first some world rate scientists!

**khushal** · 01-22-2011, 12:34 PM

I was surprised that Time Magazine named Einstein as man of the century. Did he change the world more than anybody else. The wright brothers deserve it more than him, and I didnt see them on this list.

@schimtar, they wont give you one unless you really show real interest that you want it, ie swallowing pride and brown nosing.

**ScimitarXEdge** · 01-22-2011, 12:55 PM

Usefulness and Applicability of Science and Technology aside;

It should not be seen as the apex of progress, betterment or even prosperity without addressing the nature/attributes of it's applications first and more over assess whether such were intrinsically valid contributions or only relevant in context to manufactured norms.

We can take the example of Rain Forest people and the corporate banker to illustrate this point. A Corporate Banker will employ numerous scientific or technological innovations to assist his job, advances in computer engineering and software technology allows him to calculate, distribute and process assets at high volume in short time; however, the entire institution he is working to support is either not an intrinsic ecological necessity, a distortion of intrinsic ecological necessities or completely detrimental to fulfilling ecological needs or can be all or some combination of the three. It expends significant resources particularly with energy, materials and landspace; maintains exploitive socioeconomic institutions, is environmentally detrimental, and most of all, and imposes a habitat which alienates human beings from the natural world, thus inducing imbalances.

The Rain Forest people, do not have many known technological advancements and their level of scientific knowledge, although existing is much smaller in scale. However, their lifestyle is generally sustainable and is important for the relationship of various ecosystems. This is important from everything from global climate to energy balance on the planet wide scale. Their lifestyle helps sustain our entire planet.

One may argue that if we believe in the virtue of the Rain Forest life; why don't we leave to live in the Rainforest? The answer is that no Earth System is closed; the sustainability of the Rain Forest life is under threat by the G8 Nations; we can only stop the G8 system by abolishing the institutions or dismantling them, this can't be done long distance but directly.

Which leads to the last point. Modeling after G8 Nations for economic advancement; the standards of advancement being posited relate to whether or not the mechanism itself is valid, we're defining advancement by criteria which are manufactured and in reality not analogous to our ecological needs; either because they're deviations of our intrinsic drives or they're not compatible with them. The ultimate goal is not for worldly prestige but to better our existence here on Earth; following the G8 to attain something they have imposed as the standard is based on a circular argument and is not conducive to that. This is not a rant against science or technology, because science and technology are merely tools; they're only do what people apply them towards. It is however a critique about humanity's current approach science and technology and whether that is meritable or not.

So our needs is not the Nobel Prize, nor is it creating the "Alternative" to the Nobel Prize; whether it's called Avicenna Prize of Scientific Achievement or Nobel Prize; the pursuit is a vain and superficial one; the real goal as stated is How well we use those resources to live in accord to how our faculties have been developed in respects to the greater body of our Home, The Earth.

**Alchemist** · 01-22-2011, 02:07 PM

^ Nobel Alfred invented the dynamite...enough said.

**Badlun** · 01-22-2011, 02:26 PM

The concern about environmental issues, climate change, pollution, desertification , deforestation ,contamination and other ecological disdorders and aberrations is appreciable but preferring rain forest to the modern life with banks and other institutions is equal to nullifying the whole progress human being made after stone age. I have seen humans living in the rain forest of Brazil and they live in a wild , uncivilized way , may be happy but this is not what human should live as they are a bit better in their lives than animals or plants.

The moderate way is scientific and technological advancement plus taking care of the mother earth. Developed world is conscious of this fact and is trying to control the climate change, ozone depletion and other environmental problems.

Ironically this is the third world or the underdeveloped or developing world which is more polluted and one can feel the diference between the streets of Africa, south Asia and the Western europe and North America.

Nobel prize is necessary to encourage the scientists and scholars. Its like the trophy a sportsperson receives on her or his achievement.

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Where are Muslims and Pashtuns in the list

Where are Muslims and Pashtuns in the list

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