Astrology, horoscopes, stars

[Badlun]

Okay, lets see. What is the purpose of Astrology? Do you really believe what they say is true? How accurate is this?

Whats true and whats not true is a long debate. There is nothing absolutely true and nothing absolutely false. Things are relative not absolute. For some one one thing is true for another another thing is true. For christians chritianity is the ultimate truth while for Mulims Islam. Thats why lakum deenukum waleya deen.

Astrology is not Astronomy. This is more an art than a science as Astronomy is. Thus its neither true nor exact. Art like literature or poetry is also not true. Potery or novels or fictions all are not true but it does not mean we ban them.

The purpose of Astrology is just to have common categories of personalities according to their natal charts which is useful as well as interesting but not accurate or exact. Its more a leisure activity than some thing serious or scientific. Its a pass time thats why all newspaers and magazines usually have a section on astrology.

Stars might have some influence on the development of some one´s personality, character, health, love, wealth, business, growth as stars is a strange phenomenon of nature and deep investigation is required that how stars effect our lives as these dim lights far away in the sky in the form of stars may not be useless objects. Like moon has efefct on waves of ocean, similarly stars might have an effect on our lives and this world.

More later(I am doing kind of research in Astrology)

[Palwasha]

Osho, I knew you wouldn't agree with what I posted, but Alhamdolilah another opportunity for dawah I guess. Also please remember I’m not saying any of this for my benefit, neither is this my personal interpretation, but what I have read and understood in my study of Islam. Never anywhere have I read it is acceptable.. this also being based on a article I read.

You want a discussion, here it goes..

The practice of astrology is haraam, as is visiting an astrologist or a fortune teller. Merely listening to his predictions or reading horoscopes is prohibited. This is because astrology is linked with predicting the future, as that’s what it’s used for, therefore those who practice it are considered as fortune tellers.

Those who follow astrology or who seek their horoscope can relate to what the Prophet (SAW) said:

"The Salaah (daily prayer) of whoever approaches a fortune-teller and asks him about anything will not be accepted for forty days and nights." [Reported by Hafsah and collected by Muslim (Sahih Muslim (English Trans.), vol. 4, p. 1211, no. 5440).]

And this punishment is for only approaching or asking a fortune teller, whether you believe him or not.

If anyone is uncertain of the truth of astrology/horoscopes, and is unsure if others beside Allah (SWT) have knowledge of the unseen, then this is a form of shirk, as in the Qur’an it states:

"With Him are the keys to the unseen and none knows it except Him" [Soorah al-An`aa,m 6:59]


"Say: None in the heavens or earth knows the unseen except Allaah." [Soorah an-Naml 27:65]

Furthermore, if one believes the tales of fortune (i.e. the horoscope predictions), then he/she has fallen into Kufr:

Prophet (sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam)said "Whoever approaches an oracle or fortune-teller and believes in what he says, has disbelieved in what was revealed to Muhammad." [Reported by Abu Hurayrah and collected by Ahmad and Abu Daawood (Sunan Abu Dawud (English Trans.), vol. 3, p. 1095, no. 3895).]

This hadith literally refers to the fortune teller, who is in contrast to the concept of Tawheed. This is because he/she believes that people’s personalities and futures are written by the stars – therefore claiming the ability to read and understand knowledge of the physical formation of the unseen.

Also, a lack of Imaan is the supposed reasoning for those who seek out these paths, which represent a vain attempt to escape Qadar (fate).

Allaah’s messenger was told by Allaah to say: "If I knew the unseen, I would surely have only sought the good. But, I am only a warner and a bearer of glad tidings for believers." [Al-Qur'an Soorah al-A`raaf 7:188]

For these reasons mentioned, it is said in Islam that those who believe (i.e. Muslims) should stay away from such acts of Kufr and refrain from involving themselves in these beliefs.

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@ Feroza Banu - Khorey, it was not to voice my opinion but to simply state the Islamic perspective on the issue. It’s also why I said to PM me if anyone disagreed.. and we do care what you think, I would have loved to hear anyone’s opinion on the matter, so thank you for voicing yours.

Shirk is such a incredible sin that I didn’t want the talk of horoscopes to continue. If anyone had any uncertainties they could have PM’ed and I would have re-opened the thread to explain further. Khair, it's not an issue anymore.

[spogmai shaglay]

Salamoona

^thats because there are many pashtuns in india that are not muslims.

doubting somebodys imaan is also a big sin. I hope my friends know this i dont think there is a need to boast about how religious one is all the time.

[Azmatullah]

I don't believe in all this... i won't even bother reading up about my star signs.

[karachipashtun]

Khaney thank you for professionally coming forward. I respect you for that.

Spoghmai, what do you think of Astrology?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

I don't believe in all this... i won't even bother reading up about my star signs.

Safest route!

[Feroza_Banu]

doubting somebodys imaan is also a big sin. I hope my friends know this i dont think there is a need to boast about how religious one is all the time.

i am sorry, but i don't understand what you are saying. please explain your post further... thank you.

i don't know how my statement above could justify this response, i simply stated that alot of pashtun immigrants in India has converted to hinduism and other religion... hence, not all pashtoons in the world are Muslim.

[Badlun]

i understand why as a muslim Khaney would be inclined to close the topic, however i don't believe this was the right thing to do. she can voice her opinion and spread the knowledge she has to those who don't or to those who don't agree with her... but closing a topic means there is no room for someone to ask a question even. the right thing would have been if she had just pointed out how it is against Islam and discussed it with her... and anyone else who is a muslim and thinks it is not shirk...

we all know that a topic can be created over and over again, so closing one does not mean its the end of disucssion of that topic... we all come from different background from different life experiences and knowledge level... the best way is to correct someone and hope that the person will understand... if a person does not agree and asks a question, more effort should be put in making him/her understand...

this new topic is a proof of how Khaney was not able to convince Osho with one post and then bam closed the topic...

anyways, i just wanted to point out... who cares about what i think lolll

Closing a topic is not at all a solution to a problem. You discuss it, argue it, enlighten others , educate others, prove your point and this way you may bring a positive change . Like religious posts of Momin has a very positive impression .The same way we can expect other changes. To ban some thing, to close your doors is not the way as that person can go some where else to open new vistas, on this site or some where else. In this global era you cant restrict people by closing your doors to them.

Moreover this is an open site. Here we have members of the different schools of thoughts, of different religions , of different sects, this way we cant implement our own ideology or approach on all. You can present your case but you cant enforce soem one to accept yours or to ban him or her at all.

If you find an evil, its an opportunity to correct it by education not by closing the doors otherwise the evil will become worse.

Also if astrology is shirk then I am doing this shirk you are not part of this. The maximum you can tell me its a sin and convince me not that you make me speechless. In democracy you will have to give the freedom of expression otherwise the pressed and contained sentiments become voaltile an dbring undesired changes.

This is just a general discussion . I have nothing to with any one personally. We are all members of a family and each family members have its own particular way of doing things. Lets be tolerant and accomodative.

[Badlun]

Khaney

You just declare that Astrology is haram then it may be haram for you but not for me being a muslim and not at all for others who are not Muslims and here we have non Muslims members too. Even members like Momin may not call it Haram and many other muslims too. So this is your or your schoiar arbitrary decision to declare it haram.

second I request you give a definition of unseen. In Quran there are few things like rain, death, child sex, etc which Allah has kept for himself others not. If all unseen are for God then we allshould sleep or become idle an dlet God do every thing becaus ein this world very few things are seen. majoruiy unseen.

Futorology or futuristics is a new science and planning and predicting the future is something unavoidable in this modern era.

You cant compare worshipping stars to just its influence on human life and events. Moreover i dont believe in many hadith which are contradictory to quran or reason or common sense or science or logic so just mentioning an hadith is not sufficient proof for me.

[Palwasha]

Moreover this is an open site. Here we have members of the different schools of thoughts, of different religions , of different sects, this way we cant implement our own ideology or approach on all.

Yes but the majority here are Muslim.

It's also the duty of a Muslim to provide dawah where it is necessary, to stop wrong doing and to even help educate others (especially in Islamic knowledge).

You just declare that Astrology is haram then it may be haram for you but not for me being a muslim and not at all for others who are not Muslims and here we have non Muslims members too. Even members like Momin may not call it Haram and many other muslims too. So this is your or your schoiar arbitrary decision to declare it haram.

Haraam is haraam, there aren't different laws amongst Muslims, the same rules apply for us all.

I don't make the rules, I follow them. So this declaration isn't mine, dear brother. It doesn't matter the opinions of Muslims.. I haven't presented my opinion, simply my argument backed by Islamic evidence (Qur'an & Hadiths); so basically the ruling in Islam

If you can find any Islamic evidence to support your claims, then go for it. As far as I see, this is just your opinion, everything I have posted is Islamic understanding.

If you oppose the Islamic perspective then fair enough, to each their own. However, I'm sorry if this is to your dismay, but the islamic stance is quite clear on this issue. It's one even which the scholars don't differ on.

second I request you give a definition of unseen. In Quran there are few things like rain, death, child sex, etc which Allah has kept for himself others not. If all unseen are for God then we allshould sleep or become idle an dlet God do every thing becaus ein this world very few things are seen. majoruiy unseen.

The unseen is quite literally the unseen.. no not rain, and why you said Allah has kept child sex for himself baffles me? I’m sorry if I have misunderstood, but please explain what you mean.

(Islamic) Definition of the unseen: The term 'unseen' in its wider application is employed to cover everything which is not directly visible or audible. Likewise it also covers all that is not directly accessible through other human sensory faculties. In this respect we may also define the unseen as a domain which covers all forms of existence which lie beyond the direct access of the five senses. The things which belong to this category do not remain permanently inaccessible. They are inaccessible only with reference to a given period in time.

Your points aren’t making sense to me, *how is everything* unseen, why would we have to sleep and remain idle...?

Futorology or futuristics is a new science and planning and predicting the future is something unavoidable in this modern era.

Not necessarily, how is it unavoidable?

You cant compare worshipping stars to just its influence on human life and events. Moreover i dont believe in many hadith which are contradictory to quran or reason or common sense or science or logic so just mentioning an hadith is not sufficient proof for me.

The bold part confuses me.. I don’t get what you’re trying to say..

If you read again, you’ll also notice how I posted Qur’anic ayahs, not just hadiths.

[Roshina]

"Islamic" definition of X :p Funny. 'Cause ISLAM didn't define anything; Muslims did and Muslims do. We just like to attach the word "Islamic" to it to give it an "Islamic" touch!

All these things of "Islamic concept of human rights," "Islamic concept of equality," Islamic concept of modesty," etc. have nothing "Islamic" about them - they're simple the conclusions of certain types of Muslims. And it's not like we choose a variety of definitions: we choose only particular ones, thereby denying ourselves the right to look at another perspective, or ANOTHER explanation of an "Islamic concept of <X>."

[Palwasha]

"Islamic" definition of X :p Funny. 'Cause ISLAM didn't define anything; Muslims did and Muslims do. We just like to attach the word "Islamic" to it to give it an "Islamic" touch!

All these things of "Islamic concept of human rights," "Islamic concept of equality," Islamic concept of modesty," etc. have nothing "Islamic" about them - they're simple the conclusions of certain types of Muslims. And it's not like we choose a variety of definitions: we choose only particular ones, thereby denying ourselves the right to look at another perspective, or ANOTHER explanation of an "Islamic concept of <X>."

You lost me a bit.. but I'll only comment on this.. if you're referring to the definition of the unseen in the post above, then it's not the literal Islamic definition. It's just my choice of words as a heading, as he requested a definition from me.

[Mutakhasis]

The Qur'aan states that the heavens, from the sun to the moon, to the stars above, follow a precise course prescribed for them. The main purpose for these verses are to refute worshiping the heavenly bodies, as osho along with millions of others do. Whether you call it horoscopes, astrology or directly believing these heavenly bodies have an affect on your future, are all a forms of worship

And as the Qur'aan says, if these heavenly bodies follow a set course which allow men to accurately calculate time and provide a means of direction for travel, then how can anybody worship them? They are the ultimate examples of submission

The Qur'aan does not deny the impact of these heavenly bodies on the earth, which is the subject of natural science. Astrology is not natural science, but a purely subjective way to infer certain things regarding human destiny, which in no way can be known through these observations

So these things are simply promoting false hope and deceiving peoples intellect, and it's quite loathing to see people actually defending it. You would rather worship something that has absolutely no affect in your hereafter, from worshiping your Creator who controls these heavenly bodies

People are sick minded and twisted

[inqilab]

Only one star affects us and that is the sun.

If we go one degree close to it, we will fry. If we go one degree further away from it, we will freeze.

Allah has set everything on principles. And He is the controller of all these things.

[Mutakhasis]

These things are introduced to society so they can remain entertained and be given misguided beliefs that everything will be fine while continuing to be idiots. This is called mind control

While reality is they are slaves of men who disregard the One that created them and the women are just objects to be gratified from, there is nothing to be honored by, just fictional entertainment