The Great Osho ...He changed me completely. Let us know him and discuss his ideas.

[ډګروال]

there you have it Mujib

osho is just another sufi

[Mujib]

Brother Badlun,

Based on what is attributed to him, it seems Osho was not a Muslim. What, then, does he offer that Muslim spiritual masters don't?

The ideas you have presented are not unique to Osho. Other people and groups also claim that Sufism is beyond Islam, or that Sufism is a core (spirituality) that does not need a form (formal religion). Sufis have always rejected this idea. Spirituality cannot be without formal Islam. God created us not only as spirits, but as spirits and bodies together. Formal worship and obedience of the body should be in harmony with the worship and obedience of the spirit. Without formal religion and law, anyone can claim anything. Tomorrow some other new age spiritual guru can rise and say, for example, that spirits must feed on spirits to grow, and so we must consume other humans. Without formal practice and law, what is there to stop such a teaching?

Again, Sufis have always rejected the idea that Islam and Sufism can be separated, or that law and spirit can be separated. I am sure you know of Sayyidina Junayd al-Baghdadi (ra). He said about Sufism that it is controlled by the Qur'an and Sunna: "our science is controlled by the Book and the Sunnah." Mawlana Rumi (ra) said the same thing:

man banda-ye Qur'an-am, agar jan dar-am
man khak-e rah-e Muhammad-e Mukhtar-am
gar naql kon-ad joz in, kas az goftar-am
bezar-am az-o, w-az-in sokhan bezar-am

The Qur'an and the Rah-e Muhammad (Sunna of the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace) are the foundations of Sufism. New age spirituality types ignore these teachings of Mawlana Rumi (ra) and other Sufi masters.

[Mujib]

there you have it Mujib

osho is just another sufi

Is your agitation with Osho or Sufism? Did you miss this part of Osho's words that Badlun quoted: "Once a learned Mohammedan came to me and asked, 'You are not a Mohammedan, then why do you speak on Sufism?'"

Pay attention to the question. The learned Muhammadan (Muslim) knows that a non-Muhammadan cannot speak on Sufism.

[ډګروال]

Is your agitation with Osho or Sufism? Did you miss this part of Osho's words that Badlun quoted: "Once a learned Mohammedan came to me and asked, 'You are not a Mohammedan, then why do you speak on Sufism?'"

Pay attention to the question. The learned Muhammadan (Muslim) knows that a non-Muhammadan cannot speak on Sufism.

dont act liek you are some sort of victim here.

what the hell is a mohamadan?

badlun claimed he is a sufi and also thinks that osho is sufi.

about sufis : you are right i do have problem with alot of rituals done by some sufis such as bowing down to graves,believing that prophet(pbuh) is alive inside the grave,condoning massacres of muslims and condemning muslims for defending their rights.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Let us refer to this criminal now not as Osho, a title he took for himself to rectify and cover up his misdeeds... but rather as a criminal court would - Chandra Jain.

Chandra was even so far gone so as to call himself a great buddah of the age.

One can directly read about the crimes Chandra's followers inflicted on simple people of the state of Oregan. Luckily, there were federal files documenting how Chandra took advantage of the typically tolerant people of Oregon. Anyone living in the US can testify that Oregon being a coastal locale has a reputation of accepting many people.

Chandra even took advantage of youngsters who were trying to find meaning in their lives post Vietnam.

One example clearly is the smoking gun that showed Chandra (aka Osho) collaborated with the criminal Sheela and approved her actions.

One commune member raised Sheela's misdeeds to him and the federal files document Chandra's direct response:

"But her conduct troubled other Rajneesh leaders.
KD complained in a letter to the guru that the insults were impairing efforts to build the commune. The guru's response was blunt: You're a coward. KD swallowed the insult and kept his place at the inner circle of the ranch. Later, he used his insider knowledge to get a lenient plea deal for himself -- and to help send Sheela to prison."

Another nice sentence showing Chandra's planning and goal of ripping off these people is here:
"Those obstacles undermined Sheela's power in the sect, derived in large measure from her promise to build a sprawling utopia. The guru pressed her relentlessly to sweep the hurdles away. Millions of dollars were at risk if their American dream failed."
http://www.oregonlive.com/rajneesh/i...mune_goes.html

Then Chandra decided to initiate even more chicanery when he saw Oregonians getting ready to hoist him out back to his mud hut in India where he could continue his scams:
"Yet the guru they worshiped, Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, pushed for even more extreme acts.
His chief of staff, Ma Anand Sheela, shared with her inner circle that the guru was fed up with Wasco County's attitude. He wanted his people to get a seat on, or even get control of, the county's board of commissioners. That would at least give the commune a direct voice in its fate."

http://www.oregonlive.com/rajneesh/i...u.html##Static

All in all, Chandra, alias Osho was a vagabond on par with militant secularists who seek to hoist his teachings onto the Afghans who would probably laugh Chandra out of their cities and do tor makh of his face and tar and feather him and then put him a donkey.

Truly their endorsement of Chandra shows that the militant secularists are far gone and detached from reality.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Remember everyone who is a Muslim, from now on, call him Chandra, or Chandra Jain. Or simply Sheela's Boss Man.

[Badlun]

Brother Badlun,

Based on what is attributed to him, it seems Osho was not a Muslim. What, then, does he offer that Muslim spiritual masters don't?

The ideas you have presented are not unique to Osho. Other people and groups also claim that Sufism is beyond Islam, or that Sufism is a core (spirituality) that does not need a form (formal religion). Sufis have always rejected this idea. Spirituality cannot be without formal Islam. God created us not only as spirits, but as spirits and bodies together. Formal worship and obedience of the body should be in harmony with the worship and obedience of the spirit. Without formal religion and law, anyone can claim anything. Tomorrow some other new age spiritual guru can rise and say, for example, that spirits must feed on spirits to grow, and so we must consume other humans. Without formal practice and law, what is there to stop such a teaching?

Again, Sufis have always rejected the idea that Islam and Sufism can be separated, or that law and spirit can be separated. I am sure you know of Sayyidina Junayd al-Baghdadi (ra). He said about Sufism that it is controlled by the Qur'an and Sunna: "our science is controlled by the Book and the Sunnah." Mawlana Rumi (ra) said the same thing:

man banda-ye Qur'an-am, agar jan dar-am
man khak-e rah-e Muhammad-e Mukhtar-am
gar naql kon-ad joz in, kas az goftar-am
bezar-am az-o, w-az-in sokhan bezar-am

The Qur'an and the Rah-e Muhammad (Sunna of the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace) are the foundations of Sufism. New age spirituality types ignore these teachings of Mawlana Rumi (ra) and other Sufi masters.

Dear Mujib
If we consider Sufism as spiritualism and all human beings as creatures of one God then a non Muslim can be a sufi and vice versa.
Religion can differentiate between Muslims and non Muslims but Sufism is beyond this discrimination.

On this subject we have a detailed discussion here

http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?t=35781

I would love to have your insight in this thread.

[Mujib]

dont act liek you are some sort of victim here.

I'm sorry - you've lost me. What are you talking about?

what the hell is a mohamadan?

A Muhammadan is a Muslim.

about sufis : you are right i do have problem with alot of rituals done by some sufis such as bowing down to graves

Bowing down to graves has nothing to do with Sufism. Associating Sufism with bowing down to graves and other such things is part of the smear campaign of the enemies of Sufism.

believing that prophet(pbuh) is alive inside the grave

All Ahl al-Sunna (Sunnis) believe that prophets are alive; this is part of our `aqida. The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) informed us of the life of the prophets after death.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Mujib believes that the sahaba burried a Prophet alive. Great.

[$hiva]

Sufis have brought more people to Islam than any orthodox clerics or use of force. Most of the people in Indian subcontinent and east Asia were converted by Sufies, not to mention many in the west.

Sufism is for those who know the basics of Islam and wish to gain higher learning. Basic Islam is for basic everyday Muslims, Sufism is an elite form of Islam -- and no, one does not become a Sufi by calling oneself a Sufi.

[Khorosani]

Sufis have brought more people to Islam than any orthodox clerics or use of force. Most of the people in Indian subcontinent and east Asia were converted by Sufies, not to mention many in the west.

Sufism is for those who know the basics of Islam and wish to gain higher learning. Basic Islam is for basic everyday Muslims, Sufism is an elite form of Islam -- and no, one does not become a Sufi by calling oneself a Sufi.

In the west, i've found most people who are doing any serious dawah are people who are more salafi minded. Sufis are doing dawah, but salafis by a long shot are putting in more effort in the dawah. I'm not against anybody i'm just calling a spade a spade.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Sufis have brought more people to Islam than any orthodox clerics or use of force. Most of the people in Indian subcontinent and east Asia were converted by Sufies, not to mention many in the west.

Sufism is for those who know the basics of Islam and wish to gain higher learning. Basic Islam is for basic everyday Muslims, Sufism is an elite form of Islam -- and no, one does not become a Sufi by calling oneself a Sufi.

Vishnu, islam is not like your religion where there are different casts. Islam is standard for all mankind.


This is proper sufism:

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Dear Mujib
If we consider Sufism as spiritualism and all human beings as creatures of one God then a non Muslim can be a sufi and vice versa.
Religion can differentiate between Muslims and non Muslims but Sufism is beyond this discrimination.

On this subject we have a detailed discussion here

http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?t=35781

I would love to have your insight in this thread.

Only those ignorant of Sufism thinks of Sufism will view it as a discrimination; because if someone knows Sufism; they'll know that the real meaning of Muslim is the true and original state of man. If someone is complacent with being a Non-Muslim then they're ignorant of the original state and Sufism's goal is to restore us to the pure state of being.

[$hiva]

This is proper sufism:

Haq Ali Ali Mula Ali Ali - YouTube

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Haq Ali Ali Mula Ali Ali - YouTube

Yes sufis are undercover shias who worship Ali.