Medical Thread

[Dreamer]

the american system seems so long winded and complex... the british one is far more easier... enter at 18 come out at 23 (providing u pass all ur exams and went straight after A level)

[Dreamer]

Dreamer can you practice in the USA?

only if I pass the USMLE steps 2 and 3.... Ive cleared step 1 with 96th percentile score but did it as a Joke... the exam was pretty easy...

[Michin Khel]

Same is case with Pakistan

You apply for admission in governament medical college on the basis of your F.SC (equalant to A-level) and entry test.

A merit list is issued in which canditates having top merit are selected. In merit 50% quota is for F.Sc marks and 50% quota is for entry test marks.

Medical education in governament institute is very cheap, it has fee of nearly 200 dollars per year.

[Dreamer]

Same is case with Pakistan

You apply for admission in governament medical college on the basis of your F.SC (equalant to A-level) and entry test.

A merit list is issued in which canditates having top merit are selected. In merit 50% quota is for F.Sc marks and 50% quota is for entry test marks.

Medical education in governament institute is very cheap, it has fee of nearly 200 dollars per year.

that is cheap indeed... here in my days it was £1200 a year and free in Scotland... now the govenment had raised fees and so students frm high income backgrounds will have to pay about £9000 a year! still free for Scottish students in Scotland and its been frozen at £3000 a year in wales just those poor students in England

[darwezkhail]

Brother, I only delayed because the answer to your question requires more thought.

So here is the deal regarding what I think is best for you. You have to balance it versus what you think is best for you.

In my opinion, if you are a US citizen, then you ought to try your best to stay within the US and attend school here. Even if you are not a US citizen, the pathway into a US medical school is not as bad if you attend a US undergraduate institution (if you are young enough). There are medical schools here in the states that are open to folks without citizenship, or even green cards, who are meritorious. I had two girls in my class, one from Japan and one from India, without green cards, who went to an American undergraduate school, did all the right things, and ended up getting the MD through an American school.

If your concern is the criteria the US generally sets up for admission (GPA, MCAT, extra curriculars, research accolades) then there are other avenues as well. For instance, if you think that you can improve your CV with a year's worth of post bacclaureate work in a good research project (I can provide a good list of these) and either take or retake the MCAT, some schools may very well be willing to give you an interview and then a shot.

The reason for this stems in some earlier posts where I explained why this is so. Your long term economic advantage and training advantage lie in the US where the protocols are tested and devised. By going through the system fully as an American, you will have many more options open to you here within the mainland US for advanced training. I can give you a practical real world example I just witnessed today. There is a Labenese Christian fellow who graduated from American University of Beirut, an excellent foreign grad school. He went on to go to a local hospital residency, not really renowned for its standing in the US, but he still became chief resident and is very sharp. I was talking to the pulmonary critical care specialist today regarding that individual's matching into the program at the hospital where I work. Her answer was blunt; she said she fought hard for this guy to be there because he is very clinically capable and had saved hundreds of lives as a hospitalist. However, he was up against American grads with research that they had accumulated on their CVs throughout the years and he lost out.

Regarding the European schools; I think you can see from brother Dreamer and his posts that they graduate very competent and capable physicians. Once again though, it comes down to where you want to end up. The issue with going to a UK or Irish school as an American is that you are limited in how high in the ranks you can climb. Brother Dreamer has the advantage because he is a UK born citizen and can eventually become an attending within their system. Their system is beginning to clamp down on foreign grads entering the workforce and the climb to reach the rank of attending is rendered impossible for folks that are not British citizens. I may be wrong there, but I have personal friends that went to Dublin and realized that they had to come back to the states. They would not be able to break through the new "glass ceiling."

In reference to the western schools that are based in the East, the best option out of these for devout Muslims and US citizens is the prestigious Cornell University program in the middle east. You get an American certified degree and can sit for the USMLE board exams (this is what I heard from colleagues at least, I need to confirm this myself).

I assume that the European schools that are middle east based will once again put you at a disadvantage compared to your British born or Irish born collegues should they choose to return to the UK.

If, at the end of the day you decide you want to return to the US, but that your heart is set on the school you noted above as your first choice, then the the European based model will probably prepare you better for the USMLE exams and give you a better chance than other foreign grads.

Regarding Khybar: In every generation there are many devout US brothers that decide that their kids are going to turn out to be "bad people" if they grow up here in the US (I guess that makes me a bad person). Then there are others also do not want to deal with interest and that is why they go to Khybar. The latter issue is a commendable one. They seek only to make Allah (S) happy with them and value akhiraah more than the world. I truly truly love these people with all my heart because they are far better people than me. However, if you decide to go to Pakistan, Aga Khan will prepare you better from what I understand. If you decide to go to Afghanistan, unfortunately, Kabul may prepare you better than Nangrahar. These institutions like Aga Khan have a foot in the door in the West. The US is also starting to create hurdles for returning for those wonderful brothers from Khybar due to the US relationship deteriorating with Pakistan.

The brothers from Khybar are some of the smartest and most capable doctors in the world. They are truly hard working and are like hafizaan of Harrison's Text Book of Medicine. However, their curriculum does not prepare one for the USMLE and their school has yet to integrate the way Aga Khan has, in order to give its students a head up into entering the US market. It has been because of the hard work of some brothers and sisters from there, who have setup networks in the US, that there is an underground railroad type system being built to help these folks (boys and girls) make their way here. Nonetheless, if they lack US citizenship, advancing into the ranks of fellows is like climbing Mt Everest for them and it does not work out except for a select few (however trust me these boys are like the fighters of Waziristan they will eat two pieces of bread and sit in the ward for the whole day until they get their goal accomplished).

American citizens that go abroad to Khybar versus the UK based schools end up limiting themselves in the ways I have posted on previously. They save a few years and a few dollars, but their capabilities to get into competitive residencies and this land strong fellowships is hamstrung. However, if their motivation was for the sake of Allah, I see barakah coming their way as well and I always tell them that Allah runs the world as he wishes. One day, Allah may make them my boss, so I shall never think I am better than they.

Bottom line, here should be your way of doing this: 1) If you can go to an Americans chool. If this is out of the question for either religious reasons or economic or scholastic then 2) Go to the european system you mention and then 3) Go to Khybar if you cannot go to Aghan Khan.

Brother, I only delayed because the answer to your question requires more thought.

So here is the deal regarding what I think is best for you. You have to balance it versus what you think is best for you.

In my opinion, if you are a US citizen, then you ought to try your best to stay within the US and attend school here. Even if you are not a US citizen, the pathway into a US medical school is not as bad if you attend a US undergraduate institution (if you are young enough). There are medical schools here in the states that are open to folks without citizenship, or even green cards, who are meritorious. I had two girls in my class, one from Japan and one from India, without green cards, who went to an American undergraduate school, did all the right things, and ended up getting the MD through an American school.

If your concern is the criteria the US generally sets up for admission (GPA, MCAT, extra curriculars, research accolades) then there are other avenues as well. For instance, if you think that you can improve your CV with a year's worth of post bacclaureate work in a good research project (I can provide a good list of these) and either take or retake the MCAT, some schools may very well be willing to give you an interview and then a shot.

The reason for this stems in some earlier posts where I explained why this is so. Your long term economic advantage and training advantage lie in the US where the protocols are tested and devised. By going through the system fully as an American, you will have many more options open to you here within the mainland US for advanced training. I can give you a practical real world example I just witnessed today. There is a Labenese Christian fellow who graduated from American University of Beirut, an excellent foreign grad school. He went on to go to a local hospital residency, not really renowned for its standing in the US, but he still became chief resident and is very sharp. I was talking to the pulmonary critical care specialist today regarding that individual's matching into the program at the hospital where I work. Her answer was blunt; she said she fought hard for this guy to be there because he is very clinically capable and had saved hundreds of lives as a hospitalist. However, he was up against American grads with research that they had accumulated on their CVs throughout the years and he lost out.

Regarding the European schools; I think you can see from brother Dreamer and his posts that they graduate very competent and capable physicians. Once again though, it comes down to where you want to end up. The issue with going to a UK or Irish school as an American is that you are limited in how high in the ranks you can climb. Brother Dreamer has the advantage because he is a UK born citizen and can eventually become an attending within their system. Their system is beginning to clamp down on foreign grads entering the workforce and the climb to reach the rank of attending is rendered impossible for folks that are not British citizens. I may be wrong there, but I have personal friends that went to Dublin and realized that they had to come back to the states. They would not be able to break through the new "glass ceiling."

In reference to the western schools that are based in the East, the best option out of these for devout Muslims and US citizens is the prestigious Cornell University program in the middle east. You get an American certified degree and can sit for the USMLE board exams (this is what I heard from colleagues at least, I need to confirm this myself).

I assume that the European schools that are middle east based will once again put you at a disadvantage compared to your British born or Irish born collegues should they choose to return to the UK.

If, at the end of the day you decide you want to return to the US, but that your heart is set on the school you noted above as your first choice, then the the European based model will probably prepare you better for the USMLE exams and give you a better chance than other foreign grads.

Regarding Khybar: In every generation there are many devout US brothers that decide that their kids are going to turn out to be "bad people" if they grow up here in the US (I guess that makes me a bad person). Then there are others also do not want to deal with interest and that is why they go to Khybar. The latter issue is a commendable one. They seek only to make Allah (S) happy with them and value akhiraah more than the world. I truly truly love these people with all my heart because they are far better people than me. However, if you decide to go to Pakistan, Aga Khan will prepare you better from what I understand. If you decide to go to Afghanistan, unfortunately, Kabul may prepare you better than Nangrahar. These institutions like Aga Khan have a foot in the door in the West. The US is also starting to create hurdles for returning for those wonderful brothers from Khybar due to the US relationship deteriorating with Pakistan.

The brothers from Khybar are some of the smartest and most capable doctors in the world. They are truly hard working and are like hafizaan of Harrison's Text Book of Medicine. However, their curriculum does not prepare one for the USMLE and their school has yet to integrate the way Aga Khan has, in order to give its students a head up into entering the US market. It has been because of the hard work of some brothers and sisters from there, who have setup networks in the US, that there is an underground railroad type system being built to help these folks (boys and girls) make their way here. Nonetheless, if they lack US citizenship, advancing into the ranks of fellows is like climbing Mt Everest for them and it does not work out except for a select few (however trust me these boys are like the fighters of Waziristan they will eat two pieces of bread and sit in the ward for the whole day until they get their goal accomplished).

American citizens that go abroad to Khybar versus the UK based schools end up limiting themselves in the ways I have posted on previously. They save a few years and a few dollars, but their capabilities to get into competitive residencies and this land strong fellowships is hamstrung. However, if their motivation was for the sake of Allah, I see barakah coming their way as well and I always tell them that Allah runs the world as he wishes. One day, Allah may make them my boss, so I shall never think I am better than they.

Bottom line, here should be your way of doing this: 1) If you can go to an Americans chool. If this is out of the question for either religious reasons or economic or scholastic then 2) Go to the european system you mention and then 3) Go to Khybar if you cannot go to Aghan Khan.

Barakzai wrora, thank you so much for this advice.

RCSI is also my first choice but I would like to have a backup. Their interviews begin in mid January and I was asked to travel there for one. I talked to my dad about it and he disagreed and had me ask them if a phone interview was possible instead, which they agreed to. They said they'd contact me for a phone interview in February which I'm cool with. You still didn't indicate what this signifies brother. I'm new to all this.

Will you please help me with the admissions process for Aga Khan because it seems a little confusing. One problem I have with schools taught by non-native English speakers is the language barrier. I don't want to constantly have to mentally correct grammar mistakes or decipher the intended meaning of something that was improperly written. That's why I opted for the European school which is primarily taught by Europeans who speak English as their native tongue.

I'll still apply to Pakistan though. Some people mentioned they pay as little as $200 a year? Which ones are those? Thanks everyone..

[Michin Khel]

@Derwaizkhel
Nearly 200 dollars are for regular students who get admission on the basis of merit.
If you apply on foriegn seat for khyber then you have to submit atleast 6000 dollars per annum.

[Michin Khel]

Agha khan is a private institute and it has very high fee.

[darwezkhail]

@Derwaizkhel
Nearly 200 dollars are for regular students who get admission on the basis of merit.
If you apply on foriegn seat for khyber then you have to submit atleast 6000 dollars per annum.

Okay, thanks for clarifying that.

I need some help with the application, any volunteers?

[darwezkhail]

Agha khan is a private institute and it has very high fee.

Its fee is still less than half of what American medical schools require.

[abbas]

darwezkhail


i havent kept up to date with this thread, but could i ask whether you have considered applying to a UK institution?
competition is fierce, but we do have a fair few canadian internationals on our course. they reserve spaces for internationals on every course here ( i think), so if you havent considered studying here, i would recommend you give it some thought

[Michin Khel]

Okay, thanks for clarifying that.

I need some help with the application, any volunteers?

You have to apply next year as admissions this year have completed.

[darwezkhail]

You have to apply next year as admissions this year have completed.

Lol... are you sure about that? I was looking at the entry test for Ayub and they cover Zoology and Botany on it. A little unusual.

I guess I will just stick with RCSI... They will accept me insha Allah but its expensive. I was looking for cheaper backup alternatives. I will keep trying. I am not going to let people like Luffy discourage me.

[Michin Khel]

I am not discouraging you, governament colleges have date for every thing. New first year classes have started in the november.
And there is no zoology and botany subjects in our course, who has told you such non-sense.

[darwezkhail]

I am not discouraging you, governament colleges have date for every thing. New first year classes have started in the november.
And there is no zoology and botany subjects in our course, who has told you such non-sense.

I am applying all the way for next fall, Luffy. Lol.

And according to the website, those subjects are covered on the entry test. Well I don't see any deadlines mentioned for Ayub. For Aga Khan, the deadline to receive applications is February 4th, 2011. If anyone is willing to help me with the applications, I would tremendously appreciate it. I am not very familiar.

[Michin Khel]

Oh you were talking about entry test. Entry test cover F.SC subjects so it is in biology ,chemistry and physics. But there is no entry test for foriegn students.
I have never applied for agha khan so i dont know about their admission procedure. Make phone call to them and ask details from them.