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    Well, I think I will retire from the political realm and turn my discussions in a direction more suited for me. I think we ought to collect, us physicians, and although I am sure there is some Pashtoon Physicians organization out there, we ought to connect here.

    I am sure something like this already exists here so I am sure Ill be laughed at and told "been there, done that, etc."

    I suggest we discuss

    1) If anyone here needs guidance on acquiring residency, sitting for the USMLEs, MCATs, or just plain getting into medical school we discuss those things together.

    2) To extend on 1, Perhaps those of us in the field can take on a younger "buddy" as they call it here and provide mentorship. Since there are may be a skewed ratio of the sexes in terms of how may folks are males/females, there should not be animosity to this buddy system extending to males and females exchanging advice.

    We can help these individuals with personal statements, coursework, research project acquisition advice etc. at the medical school, residency, and fellowship levels. Those of us that have done research and are departing a project can try to connect these buddies to potential mentors and subsequently have them carry on the work and possibly benefit with the networking, publications, and recs they may get.

    If we have past research mentors with open lab spots, we can try to help get our buddy into these positions.

    3) We can discuss interview experiences and offer guidance in this regard

    4) We can talk to foreign grads from both sides of the Durand line and try to see if we can hook them up with folks that can provide tangible benefits and guidance. My brother in law is a tribal that attended Khybar and is in residency. He can likely offer more guidance from a foreign grad perspective on how to get into the system. What I mean by tangible is that I have noted how long and hard it is for the foreign grads and how money consuming and intricate a process it is to go through the steps, acquire the VISA, and then sit for the boards. These folks need some boarding options while they undergo this process. I've noted the high failure rates on Step 2 CS as well and we can try and coach the candidates on the odd idiosyncracies of the system here (e.g. offering the tissue to the crying patient during the exam etc.)

    5) We can attempt to coax our brethren into academic medicine and attempt to convey this mindset to our native lands.

    6) As time goes on, and our careers progress, we need to try and advance the medical systems in places like Khybar and Nangrahar to advance in the direction we have here. No medical student there should feel he is not prepared for the American boards. We American grads need the support of the foreign grads to eventually set up this pipeline and to help change the systems there. I have heard from folks who have tried that the oligarchy plaques the medical system there as well and folks are resistant to change. They will certainly not accept an American Pashtun trying to alter the landscape in this way either. You are our link.

    More to come later. But at least we can hold a doctors jirga online here and identify one another.

    ** I seriously encourage folks, male or female, secular or religious, communist or capitalist, if they are considering a career in medicine and have specific questions to raise their voice if they want this to progress.
    Last edited by BarakzaiAbdali; 12-16-2010, 01:27 AM.
    "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

  • #2
    My hope is for this to not become a part of the homework thread or simply a studying tool for the boards, althought there certainly should not be shame should someone not be able to answer something and want some guidance on medical topics. Moreover, its unethical to dispense medical care online and provide diagnoses when we have not seen an individual for a physical exam. This should not turn into an online treatment forum, otherwise we will get bogged down in further unethical adminsiteration of medical advice without proper history and physicals etc. to supplement the advice. Unless urgent advice is needed, in which case advocacy should be made that the patient with grandfather with chest pain or "the worse headache of their life" go to the nearest Emergency Room.
    "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

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    • #3
      Also in case it comes up, the reason I posted this threat here as opposed to under "healthcare" is that I am sure the youngins come here to the education thread more often and the guidance we want to provide ought to be towards coaxing more young Pashtoons into medicine. I want to advertise my career path to these people and encourage them to come to medicine in the droves. I prefer to catch them when they are young and to keep their attention.
      "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

      Comment


      • #4
        Sir your thread is great, thank you for it....I am not that much good academically so i have no plan for USMLE, but my friends are dreaming to reach america, i will tell them about your thread.
        regards

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Luffy View Post
          Sir your thread is great, thank you for it....I am not that much good academically so i have no plan for USMLE, but my friends are dreaming to reach america, i will tell them about your thread.
          regards

          Does not matter, you should still consider it. It does not take what my bro in law tells me is called "a topper" to make it here. In fact, most of those guys end up screwing their chances by sounding arrogant and not understanding how the American system works, which is a combination of merit coupled to business style patient and colleague centered diplomacy. When those guys walk in with their "gold-medallions" and no research and CV that is lacking, any attempt at an observational rotation or some sort here in the states, they end up not interviewing well and and end up in a hole. Dont get me wrong, I still consider them extremely capable, but they just have to alter their style a bit and understand that the American system values the best of the best, but also wants people who can show compassion to their colleagues AND their patients. If I can get those guys to understand that, they can certainly help themselves and others out.

          I know some folks who re-directed their studies fully toward the USMLE and basically found a way to not focus on the irrelevent material that was being taught there. It takes a period of intense study, but it is doable.

          It takes, time, a little money (organizations of various pakistani physicians appear to be better organized at helping poor students from those countries than their Afghan counterparts and do exist- so there is hope), some comittment, and a whole lot patience, but people do it every day.

          For yourself, I think its important to start re-directing your interests away from politics and turn medicine into a wife of sorts for yourself. At the student level, you need to turn all your energies towards learning about differential diagnoses (step 2 stuff), clinical acumen, basic science knowledge (step 1) , and treatment protocols.

          I actually plan on not posting under the political thread for a while. I generally make massive attempts to avoid political discussions because they end up being unfruitful. We neither have the power nor the voice to change a darn thing yet. Im currently on my month break (tail end of it though) so I let myself go a little in regard to the religio-political posts, but in general it is vain talk.

          Turn your complete attention to medicine, make niyaat about helping others with it and keeping your hands clean from the bloody ways of politics and conflict, pray to the God of Gabriel, Ibrahim (A), Musa (A), Isa (A), and Muhammad (S) and then cast the dice!
          "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

          Comment


          • #6
            passed USMLE part 1... might sit part 2... my main focus is passing PACES and MRCP2
            Frater aliquis in fide nec fratrem humanitatis


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            • #7
              I will be needing help with my medical school apps this May

              i guess will need help with my personal statement

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              • #8
                I am also thinking of how I can combine my political goals with a medical career.

                Im very drawn to international politics, and I don't know how I will manage both. At the end of the day, I may just get the degree, and enter politics.

                I don't want to be a statistic in this world.

                Any suggestions.

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                • #9
                  I agree with u sir, i think i am wasting my time on politics.
                  I will think about USMLE, i have some financial issues but i wil manage it some how.
                  Sir i want to seek some help regarding academics from you. Here i read only one book and prepare some specific stuff for exams. E.g learning pharma especially adverse effects of drugs has become headace for me. How is pharma studied in american system? Can u give me links of proper sites regarding pharma, patho, medicine and surgery for students both clinical and basic sciences.
                  Regards

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                  • #10
                    The problem with Pashtuns is that they are not focusing in their area of specialization and may be that is why they have problems in excelling and attaining a distinguished position in their fields. Having said that political consciousness about our national interests is one thing every literate and illiterate Afghan/Pashtun should be aware about as it directly affects our lives, careers, economics, customs, traditions, norms and society at large.

                    There is no contradiction in achieving excellence and safeguarding our national interest as an Afghan/Pashtun nation. If you are ready to withdraw from your rights as an Afghan then your very expertise are of no use neither to you nor to your nation as you will be a commodity whose price will be decided by the market of other nations who will sell you to others or use you for their vested interests in the name of religion or any other sacred term.

                    I would recommend to Barakzai wror focusing in establishing a world class medical college and teaching hospital in Kandahar to impart the technology and knowledge to the future generations according to int'l benchmarks.

                    Luffy and other youngsters instead of investing their energies first in medical and then opting to go for civil services should make up their mind to continue medicine in case they have passion for medicine. The other option of becoming a part and parcel of the same exploitative system which strengthens the imperialism of our enemies and our enslavement will not be fruitful in the long run as examples like Rustam shah momand and Roedad khan etc have shown to a fair extent.
                    Last edited by pir_Rokhan; 12-16-2010, 08:59 PM.
                    Pir Rokhan

                    http://Pashtoonkhwa.blogspot.com

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                    • #11
                      Yar Bacha, da Luffy matha dasai un-ethical shan doctor khkari...not very fit for medical profession until he takes an extensive training in ethics and morality....
                      Last edited by Toramana; 12-16-2010, 09:50 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Dreamer View Post
                        passed USMLE part 1... might sit part 2... my main focus is passing PACES and MRCP2
                        I recognize those as exams that are for the British/irish systems no? Some of this depends on how you felt like you did on Step 1 and whether your degree is european vs from Pakistan/Afghanistan.

                        From what it appears, having an european degree from Britian from say Cambridge, or the Royal College or even schools in Ireland are equivalent nearly to the AMG (American Medican Grad) status in the application pool. In this situations you remain competitive with two digits as low as 90 or perhaps equivalency of 225 or so with the for specialities like Internal Medicine. These same grads also generally can consider applying for surgery.

                        The Pakistan/Afghanistan pool can be a bit more limited unless they generally emulate their colleagues in Aga Khan in terms of how they supplement their application. First and foremost the scores matter tremendously and a 99 two digit score is essential with about a 235 ro 240 being a baseline requirement on the steps 1/2. Step 3 is something that more and more programs are asking for because of the visa situation these days. So pursuing the USMLE with great vigor is an essential first step.

                        For the a straight shot the "easy route" possibility into the American System generally remains Internal Medicine, Family Medicine, and Pediatrics. These fields are generally the easiest to find a spot in due to the massive amounts of spots that exist that go unfilled even after the regular match. The work needed to get simply a spot versus a good spot at an academic center is the issue here. If one wants to get a spot in an NYC inner city program that generally ends up being easier, but you are pretty much limited in your career options thereafter at: staying in Internal Medicine as a Hospitalist (not a bad deal at all these days with the growing need and pay due to ACGME residency work hour regulations that are growing and the good shift style work and lifestyle) or a Family Practitioner. I still think both fields are very valuable and I salute those that are brave enough to take on the burdgeoning primary care in the the US. However, competitive folks tend to shun it and think it insufficient. For some reason, everyone with even a little persian blood, like ourselves, gravitates to cardiology.

                        Where the paths toughen and become competitive for the Pakistani/Afghan Grads is in attempting access to solid Internal Medicine residencies in institutions like say, Emory Medical, UCLA, Stanford Univ, etc, General Surgery, and of course the extremely competitive and difficult to attain even for the American grads specialties of: Opthalmology, ENT, Ortho Surgery (rarely if ever happens), and nearly any solid Gen Surg residency. However, it is becoming more and more possible, but sacrifice is necessary. The Aga Khanis appear to be making inroads and are set up by their school to understand how to take on the system. I will delve into this more in the future, but the basics of the formula FOR THESE COMPETITIVE routes (this does not necessarily apply to the simple get into residency approach) appear to be:

                        1) Solid USMLE performance + 2) Solid performance on American observational rotations (another subject we can talk about in the future) to get letters of recommendation with + 3) Research + 4) Becoming adept at the interview process and having easy going conversations with your future American colleagues.

                        It is, 3), research, above that most Pakistan/Afghan fulbright grads shun, but that is possibly their link into the more competitive specialities if they are willing sacrifice some time and understand that humility and pain are involved. For instance, students from University of Tehren will come in, and in a period of 2 years commit to taking their steps and engage in basic science or clinical research, get to know some good clinicians, do some strong work and possibly publish, do some observation rotations and then apply. I know a few who got into Internal Medicine at top level American program that allowed them to subsequently match into cardiology. The Agha Khanis are understanding this and going to Hopkins to do ENT/Basic Opthalmological research etc and are now getting strong interviews in these fields. But these students that I met on my travels are willing to make sacrifice and take on 2 year research projects and work hard as hell.

                        Finally, a field that some Pakistanis and Afghans appear to shun are is Neurology. I wonder why? I know in their home countries it is viewed as on par with psychiatry, but guys, here in the states this field is accessible and cutting edge. Neurology is where cardiology was in the 80s/90s and waiting to be opened up with cutting edge research and interventional procedures.
                        "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

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                        • #13
                          Anyhow, it is nice to know Barazkzai Saib will be establishing a hospital in Kandahar...modern type...I know an expert Radiologist (Ph. D.) intending to establish a modern lab in Pukhtunkhwa...I think if these splintered efforts come togethor, that will make a difference....

                          I have heard Rahman Medical Center has now launched Rahman Medical College...

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by unknownprince View Post
                            I will be needing help with my medical school apps this May

                            i guess will need help with my personal statement
                            A good set of personal statement examples is found in FIRST AID for the MATCH. I do not recommend foolishly memorizing that book the way that some of the foreign grads do. Its more of a reference text.

                            I utilized an example of a personal case that I saw. Quiet often telling a narrative is the best way to work the personal statement for the general residency application to medicine. The subsequent fellowship personal statements are shorter and the point.

                            I was doing a medical school rotation at a veterans hospital and I noted the common humanity that linked me and my dieing patient despite our divergent backgrounds.

                            What I noted that foreign grads from our areas, especially the Afghan fulbright folks do not emphasize the unique backgrounds we have. Our heritage is at the forefront of the American scenery today. On the applications themselves they ask not nationality, but ethnicity. That was really what I was also trying to impart to the Khybar folks, that being an Afghan is a unique and wonderful trait that gives us an equally unique perspective from which to write and from which to speak at interviews. The rare cases that are seen in the foreign medical schools, like end stage TB and tropical/rare Infectious Diseases that we rarely see here should be something you guys capitlize on.
                            "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

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                            • #15
                              Abdali sahib, this is such a great thread.

                              I am in my second year of Pre-Medicine. I am taking all of my Biology, Chemistry, Physics, and Calculus classes. Right now, i work in a hospital thats near my campus. I work with the nurses and get plenty of experience with it.
                              My major is Biology and i am also doing a minor in Psychology.

                              Next month, i am going for a job at a lab, hopefully.

                              I want to go to medical school, inshallah, and become a Pediatrician. Its what i have been wanting for so long.

                              I have serious plans of going to Afghanistan and working in a hospital for 6 months-1 year after graduation. There is a lady my father knows who works at the Nangarhar Medical University, she is an OB/GYN there. My point is, i want to use my goals and help back home as much as I can. In the future, i do want to open a clinic along with my father.

                              Now i am on winter break, and i have started studying for MCATs. I think its better to start studying little by little in a few years advance.

                              So now that i am done blabbering, i do want to know your thoughts on PA school, i am using that as a backup plan.

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