Medical Thread

[abbas]

great post dreamer. the only thing i would add is you can get in with a 2.2 in your undergrad degree if you apply to st georges, nottingham. you have to sit the gamsat for both of these unis however, and its much tougher then the ukcat (which is pot luck).

i wouldnt advice anyone to look at the medical school rankings and choose their school according to that. it really doesnt matter where you study, in the long run no one really cares.

at high school/undergrad try and get some work experience done. If your straight out of school, then a few weeks here and there should be sufficient. if your doing your undergrad however, it's a lot more competitive as dreamer said. Most of my cohort had several years of experience behind them ( a day a week for 2 years shows commitment), try and get a mixture of placements as well. at the very least you need a few months.

if your applying to the uk, then try and sit your ukcat exam early (at the start of summer). you get your results straight away and it allows you to see where you stand. if you have a particularly poor performance, then it gives you time to prepare for the gamsat (most med schools will want to see you sit ukcat, and a few others will require gamsat. this is at post-grad level however, i think in undergrad they dont use gamsat, and use bmat instead).

In order to maximise their chances, people will usually apply to a mixture of undergrad and post-grad unis (a 2-2 split is usually seen). i would highly recommend against applying to only post-grad courses, at the very least go for a 3-1 split.

[Dreamer]

great post dreamer. the only thing i would add is you can get in with a 2.2 in your undergrad degree if you apply to st georges, nottingham. you have to sit the gamsat for both of these unis however, and its much tougher then the ukcat (which is pot luck).

i wouldnt advice anyone to look at the medical school rankings and choose their school according to that. it really doesnt matter where you study, in the long run no one really cares.

at high school/undergrad try and get some work experience done. If your straight out of school, then a few weeks here and there should be sufficient. if your doing your undergrad however, it's a lot more competitive as dreamer said. Most of my cohort had several years of experience behind them ( a day a week for 2 years shows commitment), try and get a mixture of placements as well. at the very least you need a few months.

if your applying to the uk, then try and sit your ukcat exam early (at the start of summer). you get your results straight away and it allows you to see where you stand. if you have a particularly poor performance, then it gives you time to prepare for the gamsat (most med schools will want to see you sit ukcat, and a few others will require gamsat. this is at post-grad level however, i think in undergrad they dont use gamsat, and use bmat instead).

In order to maximise their chances, people will usually apply to a mixture of undergrad and post-grad unis (a 2-2 split is usually seen). i would highly recommend against applying to only post-grad courses, at the very least go for a 3-1 split.

which medical school are u in/ were in or hoping to get in2?

[abbas]

im at warwick med school. and your background dreamer?

[Admin Khan]

Lala to be fully honest with you. I ask my self this all the time. My own father, who is a doctor himself, does not want me to go to medical school.

Yes i know, spending 12 years of your life and being in $300,000 debt is crazy....and it drives people insane.

However, it all comes down to the individual. Some people see themselves going through all of this, and thinking its worth it. Some will say 'Hell with it.' and just not want to do it.

But Admin khan, there is an alternative option to medical school. And that is PA school.

PA is a physician. Actually, if you go to your doctor, you might not even know if he is a PA, MD, or DO. Since they have the same credentials, but work under a different license.

A PA is a masters program, and most of the time, they do go higher to a PHD in Public Health

PA school is an option to medical school, and a quite smart and more realistic to some folks.

1) PA is in high demand. In the next 5-15 years, they will be looked at greatly, and hired more than MDs.
2) PA school is very limited in the US. There are only 8 PA schools in the state of California. Only 8 throughout this huge state!
3) The program is very picky with its applicants. They want young folks that have great stamina and well sharped minds.
4) You have to have double the experience in health care, more than a medical school applicant. Reason is, PA does not take MCAT, in fact, majority of schools do not take GRE or any other test. They take a high GPA in demand and thousands and thousands of hours of medical experience.
5) Its a 2-3 years program, depending on the school. It is more intense than medical school, because its a shorter time period; however, that means its much more intense.
6) The student debt is *half* of what a medical school student will have.

PA is my backup plan...if in the future, medical school does not work out for me, PA is a great option. I will still be working in a clinic or hosptial. I will still be seeing and treating patients....and i will still be having the same salary as a MD and same respect.

If it was not for Afghanistan and for its people, i will be honest, then i would not put myself through this route.

Laila,

I have never heard of "PA school" but I have certainly heard of PA programs which many, and I mean many Afghans here are enrolled in. Put it this way, in our local mosque at Eid, I met at least 40 Afghans who were enrolled in the PA program. PA program is offered as an undergrad program at local liberal arts colleges here. The program is usually competitive, but surprisingly enough, it is full of Kandaharis. They almost always badmouth doctors, saying that they suffer for 8 years and end up making as much as they do. Since after 4-5 years, as experienced Physician assistants, they will also be getting paid well. You should choose what you like. Money isn't everything. So if your going into the field for the high pay, believe me if you don't enjoy what you do, you won't enjoy the money either. I actually think you enjoy medicine since you always speak highly of it. However, like our respected Barakzai sahab said, first put your feet in the shoes of a doctor. Visit a clinic and see if you enjoy what he does.

Also, I have no clue how you think a PA student has half a medical students debt, Is California that expensive? Most of the Afghans here attend PA school for FREE and they usually get checks as well. So not only do they attend for free, but they get paid 2K per semester for attending via FAFSA AND TAP. Yes, that equates to the basic assumption that they are currently jobless, and that their parents aren't rich. Even without financial aid, tuition here aren't that high. The average PA program here would cost someone 25-30K over the course of 5 years.

[Admin Khan]

Assalam-Alaikum Barakzai sahab,

Another point might be that the PhD is a noble and academic pursuit, but your preceptor can completely limit your time to graduation based on what he subjectively judges to be your progress. He basically dictates the committee in some ways.

Well, I have many friends who were admitted into PhD granting institutions with undergrad degrees, and they ended up graduating in 4 years. Now, they all are successful professors. So like I stated previously, a PhD sounds more plausible to me. I am still not convinced as to why someone would spend a decade becoming a doctor(aside from personal interest?). Is the aftermath really that great? I mean, professors have it good. They are highly paid and have little to no stress. They usually run the show and they most of the time get paid to talk and criticize your opinion.

So when you weigh the time from undergrad to PhD to postdoctoral candidacies and balance that against the MD time + residency + fellowship, the outcome may not be all that different.

Barakzai sahab, the debt is my concern. 200-300K of debt? How long does it take to pay that off? like I said, I am interested in this field but I truly don't know if it is worth it.

*Perhaps Toramana, yourself, and others in the PhD track can comment on how they see the medicine track in comparison to those points I made regarding graduate studies. That way those that are considering hard science graduate studies versus Medicine can be better informed about the pros and cons.

Sure. I don't mean to exert any negative influence on anybody here. If anyone want's to be a doctor with their own free will, I will not only encourage you, but I will mentally support you. However, if you are doing it for the money, you must be kidding me. Being a doctor does not equate to making top money. There are many other career paths that put doctors to shame[as far as money is concerned]. I honestly think taking the PhD route is more valuable in the long run. Your life is more relaxed and you don't get calls at 3AM asking you to run over to the hospital. I respect doctors for what they do, trust me. Doctors and teachers play a crucial role in our upbringing and anyone who offers them a cold-shoulder is simply ignorant, but my opinion and point is after a decade of hard work, Is it truly worth it?

BarakzaiAbdali, you mentioned you are an engineer, and you also mentioned you are a Physician. If you can, may you please elaborate on how you became a Physician with your engineering degree, and how long it took you to be a licensed Physician. I noticed you elaborated on how Med schools accept Engineering degrees, but I also notice Laila stating that Med schools like to see a year of biology, and as you might know very well, Engineers must take a couple of years of science, however, they are in sequences. You can opt out of the Bio sequences and go for the Chem sequences instead etc. Now hypothetically speaking, if someone has not taken any Chem or Bio courses, can he still apply to Med school? He/she might have an engineering degree without a year of Chem or Bio.

[Laila]

Laila,

I have never heard of "PA school" but I have certainly heard of PA programs which many, and I mean many Afghans here are enrolled in. Put it this way, in our local mosque at Eid, I met at least 40 Afghans who were enrolled in the PA program. PA program is offered as an undergrad program at local liberal arts colleges here. The program is usually competitive, but surprisingly enough, it is full of Kandaharis. They almost always badmouth doctors, saying that they suffer for 8 years and end up making as much as they do. Since after 4-5 years, as experienced Physician assistants, they will also be getting paid well. You should choose what you like. Money isn't everything. So if your going into the field for the high pay, believe me if you don't enjoy what you do, you won't enjoy the money either. I actually think you enjoy medicine since you always speak highly of it. However, like our respected Barakzai sahab said, first put your feet in the shoes of a doctor. Visit a clinic and see if you enjoy what he does.

I am sorry if i confused you, but PA program and PA school is used interchangeably. Some schools offer the PA program, and there are some that is only for PA School.

Here there is a private university, its is called Turo Universtiy. It is a PA school. Then in UC Davis, they have the PA program offered....but yeah it is basically the same thing.

PA you are right, it is a Physician Assistant. However, people should not be fooled by the title. In fact, majority of PAs work by themselves, as their own physician. Some do work under a MD supervisor, but not all. It just depends. Actually the ones that work under a MD supervisor, hardly ever see them. They should be treated like MDs as much as possible.
LOL you are so right, PA programs are filled with Afghans nationwide. Many of these Afghan PAs were MD is Afghanistan or Pakistan. So they got into the program with their experience and have the opportunity to work as a physician again.

BTW, the PA title is going to be changed in the future, many have the wrong conception that they are simply a MDs assistant, which is not true.

Also, I have no clue how you think a PA student has half a medical students debt, Is California that expensive? Most of the Afghans here attend PA school for FREE and they usually get checks as well. So not only do they attend for free, but they get paid 2K per semester for attending via FAFSA AND TAP. Yes, that equates to the basic assumption that they are currently jobless, and that their parents aren't rich. Even without financial aid, tuition here aren't that high. The average PA program here would cost someone 25-30K over the course of 5 years.

Yes, the PA schools in California range from $40,000- $60,000 annually. Like it said, its only either 2 year program or 3 year program, depending on the university. And the tuitions throughout the state has gone up 30% from 2009.

My Afghan friends mother just graduated from University of California, Davis PA program. She is in $ 98,000 student debt. However, since she works for an underserved clinic, the government will pay off her debt in 5 years.

I honestly wished California did not have such high tuition, believe me, its a huge burden.


my source: My mother is a PA

[Laila]

Barakzai sahab, the debt is my concern. 200-300K of debt? How long does it take to pay that off? like I said, I am interested in this field but I truly don't know if it is worth it.

Your whole life (literally)

However, some states do offer help in paying it off in 10-20 years, *if* you work in an underserved clinic or hospital.

BarakzaiAbdali, you mentioned you are an engineer, and you also mentioned you are a Physician. If you can, may you please elaborate on how you became a Physician with your engineering degree, and how long it took you to be a licensed Physician. I noticed you elaborated on how Med schools accept Engineering degrees, but I also notice Laila stating that Med schools like to see a year of biology, and as you might know very well, Engineers must take a couple of years of science, however, they are in sequences. You can opt out of the Bio sequences and go for the Chem sequences instead etc. Now hypothetically speaking, if someone has not taken any Chem or Bio courses, can he still apply to Med school? He/she might have an engineering degree without a year of Chem or Bio.

You can major in anything for medical school.

But, you do have to have the required courses completed.

So like you said, if they chose Chem over Bio, they will have to go back and complete one year of Bio with a B or better.

[Dreamer]

im at warwick med school. and your background dreamer?

Barts in London.... graduated 2008

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Laila,

I have never heard of "PA school" but I have certainly heard of PA programs which many, and I mean many Afghans here are enrolled in. Put it this way, in our local mosque at Eid, I met at least 40 Afghans who were enrolled in the PA program. PA program is offered as an undergrad program at local liberal arts colleges here. The program is usually competitive, but surprisingly enough, it is full of Kandaharis. They almost always badmouth doctors, saying that they suffer for 8 years and end up making as much as they do. Since after 4-5 years, as experienced Physician assistants, they will also be getting paid well. You should choose what you like. Money isn't everything. So if your going into the field for the high pay, believe me if you don't enjoy what you do, you won't enjoy the money either. I actually think you enjoy medicine since you always speak highly of it. However, like our respected Barakzai sahab said, first put your feet in the shoes of a doctor. Visit a clinic and see if you enjoy what he does.

Also, I have no clue how you think a PA student has half a medical students debt, Is California that expensive? Most of the Afghans here attend PA school for FREE and they usually get checks as well. So not only do they attend for free, but they get paid 2K per semester for attending via FAFSA AND TAP. Yes, that equates to the basic assumption that they are currently jobless, and that their parents aren't rich. Even without financial aid, tuition here aren't that high. The average PA program here would cost someone 25-30K over the course of 5 years.

For our readers in high school/college, I would say that its a little misleading to say that PAs are like MDs and that the terms are interchangable. They are both valuable players in the American healthcare system and I have had excellent experiences with the PAs I have worked with.

The reason is that the majority of the 50 states still do place a number of impositions on PA prescribing capabilities beyond the routine primary care role of being able to prescribe statins, high dose aspirin, beta blockers, etc. or refilling dangerous anti arrhythmics such as Amiodorone that an MD already started for a patient.

The schooling and residency training that an MD undergoes has more stringent requirements behind it, coupled to the NBME/USMLE certification exams along the way. Within the field itself, the boarding and recertification process for, say a cardiologist or a pulmonologist, is critical. To even sit for such specialty boards, an MD has to undergo a fellowship. Doing the fellowship does not guarantee that one will be boarded and accredited to practice in that particular field either. This was one of the reasons that Michael Jackson's father was able to so easily pursue a lawsuit against Michael's doctor for prescribing a powerful anesthetic like Propafol. It turned out that the cardiologist was not board certified.

Where physicians will likely cede territory will be within the confines of primary care medicine and some element of Ob/Gyn care to midwivery. However most PCPs (primary care physicians) and OBs belong to extremely powerful lobbies that will likely ensure non board certified colleagues like NPs and PAs remain unable to dole out critical medications like narcotics without a supervising MD signature. The other reason that OBs will also be hesistant to cede ground to both midwives and PAs is that the litigation environment remains fraught with lawsuits for any element of malpractice.

Furthermore, the loan issues are not as dramatic as the public makes them out to be. As an example, this article references the occurence of a specialist, like an anesthesiologist commonly commanding a salary of $350,000 and evaporating their ~$200,000 loan debt (scroll near the bottom):

http://medicaleconomics.modernmedici....jsp?id=124733

Most cardiology colleagues end up being able to rake in about $300,000 starting in the private practice sector and pay off their debt rapidly.

Furthermore, the salary command of a specialist, like a dermatologist, or even a hospitalist MD with internal medicine training is still about twice to three times that of the maximum PA earning potential. Comparable salaries begin to be seen in the outpatient primary care realm between primary care physicians and their PA colleagues. However, a specialized PA for intensive unit care still is outmatched by her MD colleague, critical care specialist by about 2-3 times.

The difficulty arises within the confines of internal medicine and primary care itself where salaries may be limited to the mid 100,000s in certain areas.

Moreover, surgical fields have not yielded an inch to any outsiders and no governmental organization, even the Obama administration, will cede that territory over to those outside that specialty or the MD world itself. Basic procedures (central lining, Lumbar punctures, arterial lining, paracentesis) are procedures that PAs learn, but if a student desires to become a heart, plastic, general, or neurosurgeon, PA school closes off that route.

Initiating hospital CODEs like a CODE 5/CODE RED (cardiopulmonary insult that results in someone not breathing or their heart not beating) and the drugs utilized during these dangerous scenarios are reserved for MD prescription and utilization.

ICU level decisions like initiating pressors (medications that save lives and return blood pressure and heart beat to where it ought to be) and anti arrhythmics (control an out of control or irregular heart rate) will also remain in the hands of MDs.

Moreover, academic guidelines that alter practice (for example what is best for the patient during a heart attack, etc) are all devised by MDs. NIH grants to fund these powerful studies in clinical environments are granted to MDs and MD PhDs by the steering committees that access these government purses.

When it comes to testing and utilizing clinical devices for the first time, like radiofrequency ablation needles, etc. the MD is currently the only individual utilized for such lucrative and valuable academic pursuits.

That being said, the PA is in high demand because they take over the burden of local primary care, the demand placed on hospitals with new duty hour restrictions for residents, and the demand for a skilled colleagues in the private practice world to interface with the patient in the complex testing and diagostic world that technology has bought us. They are valuable colleagues that are serving patients in new, invaluable, and innovative ways.

But higher levels of care beyond outpatient scenarios, including the emergent management of stroke, the acute response to a heart attack (stenting vs anticoagulation), or the surgical interventions that are conducted are likely to remain MD restricted well into the future.

[kakargirl]

interesting facts wrora thank you

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Assalam-Alaikum Barakzai sahab,

Well, I have many friends who were admitted into PhD granting institutions with undergrad degrees, and they ended up graduating in 4 years. Now, they all are successful professors. So like I stated previously, a PhD sounds more plausible to me. I am still not convinced as to why someone would spend a decade becoming a doctor(aside from personal interest?). Is the aftermath really that great? I mean, professors have it good. They are highly paid and have little to no stress. They usually run the show and they most of the time get paid to talk and criticize your opinion.

Barakzai sahab, the debt is my concern. 200-300K of debt? How long does it take to pay that off? like I said, I am interested in this field but I truly don't know if it is worth it.
Sure. I don't mean to exert any negative influence on anybody here. If anyone want's to be a doctor with their own free will, I will not only encourage you, but I will mentally support you. However, if you are doing it for the money, you must be kidding me. Being a doctor does not equate to making top money. There are many other career paths that put doctors to shame[as far as money is concerned]. I honestly think taking the PhD route is more valuable in the long run. Your life is more relaxed and you don't get calls at 3AM asking you to run over to the hospital. I respect doctors for what they do, trust me. Doctors and teachers play a crucial role in our upbringing and anyone who offers them a cold-shoulder is simply ignorant, but my opinion and point is after a decade of hard work, Is it truly worth it?

BarakzaiAbdali, you mentioned you are an engineer, and you also mentioned you are a Physician. If you can, may you please elaborate on how you became a Physician with your engineering degree, and how long it took you to be a licensed Physician. I noticed you elaborated on how Med schools accept Engineering degrees, but I also notice Laila stating that Med schools like to see a year of biology, and as you might know very well, Engineers must take a couple of years of science, however, they are in sequences. You can opt out of the Bio sequences and go for the Chem sequences instead etc. Now hypothetically speaking, if someone has not taken any Chem or Bio courses, can he still apply to Med school? He/she might have an engineering degree without a year of Chem or Bio.

Once again, many excellent points in your comments (that is why you are the jirga mishr!)

Walaaykum Asalaam Wa rahmutallah wa barakathahoo

I would say that tenure is the issue with the PhD route. The MD in the US has little to worry about when it comes to tenure. To climb the ladder and go from associate to assistant to full and finally to tenured professor is competitive and arduous. I would argue that the MD professor has quiet a bit of flexibility and, if the environment gets hostile he can jump institutes and fields with greater ease. He can go private practice if academia starts to wear and grate on him or cause him too much consternation.

Once again, I would say that the the job occupancy rate is higher in medicine because of the supply/demand ratio game that goes on. For instance, this article in Science appears to be discussing prospects in both the US and Europe:

"About two-thirds of the respondents had held a single postdoctoral position or were currently involved in their first postdoc. Of those who had held multiple positions, 69 percent did so to receive additional training, while 37 percent continued their postdoctoral research because of poor job prospects..."

http://sciencecareers.sciencemag.org..._opms_r0600018

Note the graph that shows about 1/4 of respondents were on their second postdoctral period. Another pertinent set of information follows:

"Last year's median annual salary for the American respondents still working as postdocs was $38,000. (The sample size was too small to provide meaningful salary numbers for European postdocs.) Only 11 percent of participants reported receiving compensation other than a salary. For just over half of those, that took the form of travel costs.
Postdoctoral positions represent way stations to the academy for a majority of survey takers. On completion of their postdoctoral studies, 62 percent of former postdocs and 55 percent of current ones hoped to land a tenure-track academic position. An additional 15 percent of former postdocs and 20 percent of current postdocs sought to start their careers in industry. And 14 percent and 12 percent of former and current postdocs looked for nontenure-track positions as research scientists.
However, respondents who have finished their postdoctoral work reported clashes with workplace realities. Only 54 percent of those who sought tenure-track academic posts actually found such positions, while the number who became nontenure-track research scientists exceeded by 50 percent those who originally wanted such work."

Armed with this information regarding the candidacy of post docs for tenure tracked positions, I would hesistate before saying that it is any easier at all straight out of the PhD to land tenure tracked positions.

However, I fully agree with you, and as Paul McCartney once sang, "Money can't buy you love." The attraction to the field should be about what one can accomplish with it beyond accolates or transient pat on the backs. Both the MD and the PhD tracks offer noble ways to pursue science and each person has go gauge what suits their personalities and goals more. One also has to judge their technical capabilities and savvy.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Assalam-Alaikum Barakzai sahab,

Well, I have many friends who were admitted into PhD granting institutions with undergrad degrees, and they ended up graduating in 4 years. Now, they all are successful professors. So like I stated previously, a PhD sounds more plausible to me. I am still not convinced as to why someone would spend a decade becoming a doctor(aside from personal interest?). Is the aftermath really that great? I mean, professors have it good. They are highly paid and have little to no stress. They usually run the show and they most of the time get paid to talk and criticize your opinion.

Barakzai sahab, the debt is my concern. 200-300K of debt? How long does it take to pay that off? like I said, I am interested in this field but I truly don't know if it is worth it.
Sure. I don't mean to exert any negative influence on anybody here. If anyone want's to be a doctor with their own free will, I will not only encourage you, but I will mentally support you. However, if you are doing it for the money, you must be kidding me. Being a doctor does not equate to making top money. There are many other career paths that put doctors to shame[as far as money is concerned]. I honestly think taking the PhD route is more valuable in the long run. Your life is more relaxed and you don't get calls at 3AM asking you to run over to the hospital. I respect doctors for what they do, trust me. Doctors and teachers play a crucial role in our upbringing and anyone who offers them a cold-shoulder is simply ignorant, but my opinion and point is after a decade of hard work, Is it truly worth it?

BarakzaiAbdali, you mentioned you are an engineer, and you also mentioned you are a Physician. If you can, may you please elaborate on how you became a Physician with your engineering degree, and how long it took you to be a licensed Physician. I noticed you elaborated on how Med schools accept Engineering degrees, but I also notice Laila stating that Med schools like to see a year of biology, and as you might know very well, Engineers must take a couple of years of science, however, they are in sequences. You can opt out of the Bio sequences and go for the Chem sequences instead etc. Now hypothetically speaking, if someone has not taken any Chem or Bio courses, can he still apply to Med school? He/she might have an engineering degree without a year of Chem or Bio.

Regarding your question on transitioning out of engineering:

It took me no extra time to transition. I was an electrical engineer by training in undergraduate. There are various electives required by most ABET accredited engineering schools to expose engineerings to various elements of communication/humanities via imposed electives. I was fortunate and had many AP credits under my belt from high school.

Being an EE (electrical engineer), I did not have the luxury that BMEs (biomedical engineers) and some ChemEs(chemical Engineers) had when it came to incorporating such electives. Therefore, I was able to utilize those free spots in my schedule that were freed up thanks to the AP credits in things like German, American History, Euro History etc. and take the additional pre med requirements. I took organic chemistry during a summer semester and was able to get that out of the way as well.

In general though the Engineering Basics overlap tremendously with the premed route

For instance:

1 year of Chemistry and lab, 1 year of physics and lab, 1 year of math and possible labs are all easily satisfied by the first year of engineering school.
Most engineerings even MechEs(mechanical engineers) have some spaces for electives in which to incorporate their premed reqs.

Chemical Engineering makes the transition pretty easy too because they usually take Orgo Chem. The only additional prereqs they have to add in is the year of English and the year of biology and associated labs.

BMEs have all the prereqs done by the curriculum designs themselves.

In summary for the most part you can see starred below what are usually easily handled by the general engineering curricula (with "yep" next to it) and what are not

1 year of chemistry + lab (yep)
1 year of physics + lab (yep)
1 year of mathematics at a higher level (yep)
1 year of orgo + lab (yep if you are ChemE or BME)
1 year of English (depends on your elective time)
*1 year of Biochemistry (sometimes if you are a BME or ChemE)
* this requirement is not universal for most medical schools.

We could really use someone with our CompE (compter engineering) skills in the academic medicine realm and I hope someone as sharp as yourself continues to consider the transition Admin Khan. If there are any further questions on this engineering to medicine transition, give me a heads up.

Usually Engineers can easily find some biomedical research to take on due to their technical skills and the value that this represents to various professors that need these skills. This usually ends up resulting in publications and a good transition to the medical field.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

I was gonna ask a similar question. What major (undergrad) would put one on advantage when applying to a med school? I am a Biochem major. And how hard/easy is MCAT?

@unhiddentruth, as far as I've heard, you don't have to be a pre-med (as an undergrad) to apply to med school. You just need to be sure to take all the required math and science courses you need to get into medical school. That's the pre-med part: it's generally just a name for that group of courses and not a college major. Like I am a Biochem major and a pre-med.

The MCAT is a difficult test. I sometimes felt like it was even harder than the certifying boards because of the range of subject matter covered. However, it is a test that is masterable and can be conquered with the right approach and a lot of hard work and study.

I think Laila answered it pretty well regarding your question of majors. Also refer to my answer regarding engineering majors. I would assume as a Biochem Major you will be easily able to satisfy the prereqs required that have been posted in a few answers on this thread.

I want to clarify on the prereqs portion though. It may be a bit different in California (I am generally less familiar with the West Coast system), but in the south, midwest, and East it there generally is not a number of volunteer hours you absolutely have to meet to apply successfully. If you are able to do something with exciting research or possibly publish, or even volunteer in a lab with MDs working in it, that is a high yield activity for building your CV for the future and also for getting into medical school.

For your own learning and to ensure you really want to go into the field, I do agree with Laila that you want to go through official channels and at least some amount of time in a hospital either volunteering or shadowing medical teams though.

VA Hospital physicians are top notch and very giving people usually when it comes to actually accompanying them on an inpatient service. There are some rules and small bits of paper work though for patient confidentiality and safety that have to be filled out in advance.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

^ Your welcome. I am glad to have helped. I just saw the questions our members were posting, so i thought i would pitch in.

I am actually living in California.

I will definitely let you know if I do need help, but alhamdillullah my parents are both licensed physicians, so i get all the help i need

Try to make sure you apply outside of California as well as to your instate schools. We had a lot of Californians in the medical institutions I worked and studied at. I used to ask them jokingly why they left a state with such beautiful weather for such areas where the weather is pretty harsh in the Winter seasons. They would tell me that the reason that Californians tend to leave California state is that there are so many applicants to the californian schools that pool gets saturated. Many other states then look kindly on Californians and accomodate them very easily. A majority of these are private institutions that are throughout the US.

So do not feel limited to staying in state. You might even like it out here on the East Coast!

[BarakzaiAbdali]

OK guys, its going to be a busy day tomorrow, and I am going to get going.

I agree heavily with Admin Khan regarding knowing what you get into and getting into it for the right reasons and not the wrong ones!

To that end, I wanted to give you guys an interesting and useful link. Its for a NOVA/PBS special called the Doctors Diaries. It tracks the lives of a few young medical students training at Harvard. The times have changed since they went though their training, but I would still say that it is a very accurate representation of the work load and the atmosphere in all ACGME allopathic medical schools.

*Some of the social issues are not necessarily applicable to Muslim or Afghan lives, but nonetheless, it at least provides you a glimpse of what you will encounter in the school hall, the wards, and facing the boards:

http://video.pbs.org/video/1114402491/


Enjoy guys and give me a heads up if the link does not work or is broken!

Here is the link to the NOVA page behind the special itself with some extra stuff:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/doctors/