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Originally posted by Shadow Caster
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What you call as politicians are merely representative of pressure groups without any political ideologies. The emergence of such groups in student campuses and parties is due to the prolonged apolitical history of Pakis Pakistan. Martial law regimes encouraged such groups to take control. -
You are not much biiger than the aid.Originally posted by Talal View Post
This is how the system works. The middle east sells oil to america and the west to fuel its economic machine. The military protects that economic machine from any threat out there. When the middle east get dollars for there oil, The americans sell them military equipment to what, to protect the oil flow going to the west. So in essence America gets oil and the middle east gets weapons to protect that oil for them. Now Pakistan is a recepiant of american aid for what, to be a client state. to keep the threat away from its economic machine. It will give you weapons and what ever you need as long as you protect its economic machine. Iraq under saddam was a client state, but when he rebelled, well you know the resst of the story.Comment
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A couple of times the Pakistanis shot each other, thats how they lost a couple of F16s.Originally posted by Talal View Post
Can you please enlighten us about those incidents too.
Secondly can you let us know how many F16 are left, I heard not many,Comment
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Sure why not..Get enlightenedOriginally posted by Baygham View Post
Only "one" PAF F-16 was lost and that was due to a 'mal-lock' from a sidewinder fired from another PAF F-16..the initial batch of F-16s produced were the block A F-16 and 'mal-lock' was a major glitch in them..the pilot ejected saftely being alerted by his fellow pilot on time
That was the only F-16 Pakistan lost to Russians, and need I remind you how many we shot down ? To date Pakistan has lost a total of '10' F-16's among the 63 or so delivered..The reason for even these was that when US put Sanctions on Pakistan, these F-16s were grounded since US holds all the spare parts and source codes these planes couldn't under go any maintenance and thus over these past '30' years ten F-16s were lost to accidents..the fact that PAF managed to keep these F-16s in the air without any spare parts and appropriate maintenance available from the US is a feat in itself
Recently Pakistan acquired new Block 52+ F-16s that other than a few minor differences are exactly the same as the Block 60 operated by te Israelis..Rest of Pakistan's older Block A/B are undergoing upgrades at TAI Turkey and will be upgraded to Block 52+ level..
UAE cancelled there 'further' order of Block 60 F-16s from the US because the US wouldn't allow PAF pilots to pilot them..PAF pilots from the 'Griffins' squadron are among the pilots flying China's most advanced fighter the Sukhoi 30 MKI
Kind RegardsIt's enough that I know, Our time had a home, In your heart..Was a place..But the glass always breaks..Comment
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Pakistan a coward still and is getting bomed every day and cannot protect it citizens and soveriegnty. It is a rotten state and a cancer for the region. Those f16 should be shoved in aas of that Q-Azam and every patriotic Paki.Comment
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Calm down Comrade
@ Baygham
thought this might interest you, Source F16.net and no its not a "paki" website
It's enough that I know, Our time had a home, In your heart..Was a place..But the glass always breaks..Comment
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Thanx to the defence strategies of Pakistan, more than 70 percent people are living below poverty line and now even the defence and military is starting to face the music.
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Pakistan Ordnance Factories facing financial crisis
By Iftikhar A. Khan
ISLAMABAD: Pakistan Ordnance Factories (POF), the largest defence-industrial complex in the public sector, is facing a severe financial crisis, forcing it to cancel orders worth $500 million.
Briefing a meeting of the Senate Standing Committee on Defence and Defence Production at the complex in Wah on Wednesday, POF Chairman Lt-Gen Shujaat Zameer Dar said the orders had to be turned down because of shortage of raw material and lack of funds.
The POF had earned record revenue of $500 million in 2008 and had secured orders for supply of arms and ammunition for 2010.
Asked what went wrong with the POF, Lt-Gen Dar told Dawn that it would be against the national interest to go into details of the financial crunch.
Sources, however, said that one of the main reasons for the crisis was over staffing. The POF management had decided to sack its contractual employees last month, but because of protests it had to abandon the plan.
The POF is the sole supplier of ordnance in the country and produces about 70 major products for the army, navy and air force. Its main products include automatic rifles, light, medium and heavy machine guns, a wide range of mortar and artillery ammunition, aircraft and anti-aircraft ammunition, tank and anti-tank ammunition, bombs, grenades, landmines, pyrotechnics and signal products.
Besides meeting demands of the defence forces, the complex sells its products to over 40 countries in Europe, Asia, the Middle East and the Americas.
The POF also produces commercial explosives and hunting ammunition and possesses extensive facilities for the manufacture of brass, copper and aluminium ingots. The complex’s advanced garments factory manufactures military uniforms and also caters to the needs of the civil sector.
The Senate body was informed that the complex had 24 units. Lt-Gen Dar said he wanted every unit to independently maintain its economic viability.
He said that 14 of the units were of commercial nature, producing basic material for the industry. However, he said, these units were currently not fully functional because of the ongoing recession in the economy.
He said that 60 per cent of machineries in the complex were more than 30 years old and a substantial amount was needed to improve the system and make the complex efficient.
The Senate committee, headed by Lt-Gen (retd) Javed Ashraf, assured the POF chief that the government would try to meet the complex’s financial needs. The committee asked the POF not to make any new appointments, except for technical and essential positions.
The committee said it would request Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani to visit the complex. It also stressed the need for giving autonomy to the POF under a 1961 Ordinance.Comment
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Muhsina again im not trying to be confrontational here and even asked the admin to close this thread..I "didnt" make this thread to brag about the army or Pakistan rather it just seemed like an interesting piece of info but again i apologize if i have offended you guys. I know people have a reserved attitude when it comes to pakistan and i should have been more carefulOriginally posted by muhsina View Post
But dear sis, POF is a very efficient and profitable entity of the Pakistan Army. It supplies weapons and munitions to over 40 countries ranging from sri lanka, Afghanistan, vietnam even as far as Peru
Im just gonna give a few sources here
Sri Lanka’s SOS to Pakistan for urgent arms supplies
India eNews - Despite India's protests, Vietnam buys arms from Pakistan
Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
Again I only posted this so that we are on even groundIt's enough that I know, Our time had a home, In your heart..Was a place..But the glass always breaks..Comment
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@Shadow Caster-
PAF is better than Indian and Israeli AF? You gotta be $hittin me! Do me a favor, go to defence.pk and check the Air Force threads. Pakistani members themselves agree that PAF at this moment is no match for IAF. Not quantitatively, not qualitatively. Stop reading your jingoistic media. India has over 250 frontline 4th Gen fighters. All of them can Carry BVRAAMs. PAF, apart from the 14 new block 52 F-16, none. Zilch. DO you know what that means? Indian planes can shoot down Paki planes even before they can see them on their radars. Kind of a death in the dark.
And JF 17 is a third grade fighter. A light weight contender for the Mig 29s and Su-30s. read its capabilities and then talk.
And lest I forget, let me add- Its stupid to really trumpet a F-16 shooting down a Su-25. Any air buff worth his salt will tell you that it was an unequal fight. Those are two different kinds of aircraft. The Su-25 isnt built to do dog fights or match an F-16 over the air. Its a ground attack aircraft that isnt really built to engage an air-superiority/multi-role fighter like F-16. Even an F-5 could have short it down!Last edited by KhalsaWarrior; 09-18-2010, 05:41 PM.Comment
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^^ where have i compared PAF with Israel or Indian AF ?
Jf-17 is a third grade fighter ? ah yes.. how is the 40 year old virgin Tejas coming along ? How many potential customers do you have lined up for it lol
And yes India has a qualitative and quantitave edge over PAF but that has been the case in the past too as far as matchmaking is concerned this thread has already been derailed enough...FYI JF-17 is meant only for the Migs and rest of the ``flying coffins``
Also I think the Indian Government should have heeded your profound analysis after the Mumbai attacks but unfortunately your Military Brass thought otherwise of their capabilities
Now this thread was for a Russian Vice President and six pages on i haven`t seen one relevant post, the least you can do is not turn this place into defence.pk or that Bharat Riksha forumIt's enough that I know, Our time had a home, In your heart..Was a place..But the glass always breaks..Comment
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Oops, I am sorry. My initial comment was directed at Shadow Caster and not you. I have edited my post. But the rest of my post stands as it is.Originally posted by Talal View PostComment
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Yes, we should have taken out the terrorist raining camps. Hell we should have blasted into PoK during Kargil and we should have exchanged the whole of Kashmir when we had the necks of 90,000 of your soldiers in our hands during '71.Originally posted by Talal View Post
But then again, paying you guys back in your own coin of terrorism has its own sweet taste.Comment
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hear hearOriginally posted by KhalsaWarrior View Post
It's enough that I know, Our time had a home, In your heart..Was a place..But the glass always breaks..Comment
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@KW
Please stop scaring the Pakids here. AFAIK we don't have any assets inside PackistanBut then again, paying you guys back in your own coin of terrorism has its own sweet taste.
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