Afghan couple 'stoned to death' over love affair Read more: http://www.news.com.au/w

[Shayesta]

OK you claim that this crime is limited between two couples. Imagine the whole society commiting adultery and zina, without any punishment??

Millions of Muslim women have been murdered for committing Zina, has that stopped the 'society' to repeat the same mistake? How many you gonna punish and till when?

Well this is an example of western society. It is not a personal thing and to say so is ridiculous. It involves destroying families and if they have kids then even more destruction of the family.

Exactly, since it's a family matter it's a personal matter. What if it's too painful for the family to live in a society where their family is being look at with 'cheap eyes'? What if they don't want to make this an public issue?

Most of the time if the matter is not resolved it will end in divorce and brings a stain on the family.

Isn't divorce the best option in such a case? Get rid of the person who isn't worth your love and time, say if you got kids with that person then why torture those kids with rest of their lives by telling them their mother has been killed because she was a 'faisha'?

You think if a man finds out his wife did adultery, he is gonna feel sorry for her??? Or the other way round??

If he/she is human enough, murdering that person would be the last thing on his/her mind. Divorce is also an option and also mentioned in the Quran-e-Sharif, remember?

If a person recognises there is a law of stoning to death an adulterer, then they would think twice before commiting such a crime.

This still happens anyway and people ain't gonna stop committing adultery. In Iran several women had half of their body (lower part) buried under the ground and stones were thrown at their heads because they committed adultery. And still adultery happens on a huge scale in Iran.

This is a sick belief in today's time that people seem to defend a criminal!! ADULTERY is a crime and cannot be made into a trivial act.

Sick is someone treats his wife like a garbage and the man commits adultery outside the house which is not being mentioned, but if his wife is fed up with her husband and does the same then she is being stoned to death for it. A criminal is someone who on order of foreigners destroys his own country and millions of lives but is first one to step forward to punish a woman for committing Zina. Ill-believers are those who are ignoring much more important things such as fighting poverty, illiteracy, injustice and looting in his country while bringing in light such an issue called 'Zina'.

[Saifullah]

Millions of Muslim women have been murdered for committing Zina, has that stopped the 'society' to repeat the same mistake? How many you gonna punish and till when?

This is what you fail to understand. Firstly millions have not been punished, secondly Islam is a complete way of life. It includes everything from personal development till ruling a nation. If a ruler decides to use the Quranic law for adultery on his nation but commits this sin himself, this is hypocricy and therefore it will not be very efficient in controlling his people. The other point to make is that once an example is set by implementing all aspects of Islam everybody will see its outcome, we cannot just start punishing people and not setting up a viable state, able to feed its people, able to provide for its people and make them stand on their feet. Like if people are starving then the law on cutting the hands is made relaxed due to the fact that people will steal food coz they are hungry.

Exactly, since it's a family matter it's a personal matter. What if it's too painful for the family to live in a society where their family is being look at with 'cheap eyes'? What if they don't want to make this an public issue?

Its not about not making it a public issue, in the west we see many times when a person commits adultery it is leaked to the media because people wanna shame that person who commited adultery. It is a natural human instinct and people want them to be shamed for such a disgraceful sin. Islam punishes criminals and gives them a chance through that punishment to be forgiven in the next life. In one hadith there was a story of a woman who commited adultery, she came to the Prophet (Saw) that i commited adultery, he said are u sure and he was finding excuses for her that maybe she is mistakened. Then they punish her and when somebody was throwing the stone he was swearing at her, but Prophet (saw) said she is forgiven by Allah dont say that. Correct me if i am wrong in this hadith.

Isn't divorce the best option in such a case? Get rid of the person who isn't worth your love and time, say if you got kids with that person then why torture those kids with rest of their lives by telling them their mother has been killed because she was a 'faisha'?

Divorce is not the best option because that is the easy way out. An adulterer should know they face much more serious consequences for their actions. Coz an adulterer really doesn't care about being divorced or not, that is the last thing they care about...if they cared about the relationship they wouldn't have commited it.

If he/she is human enough, murdering that person would be the last thing on his/her mind. Divorce is also an option and also mentioned in the Quran-e-Sharif, remember?

Forgiveness is mentioned in the Quran and even a murderer can be forgiven if their family agrees to it. Otherwise if they don't wanna forgive them, then the person is given death penalty.

This still happens anyway and people ain't gonna stop committing adultery. In Iran several women had half of their body (lower part) buried under the ground and stones were thrown at their heads because they committed adultery. And still adultery happens on a huge scale in Iran.

Iran is not an islamic model, and i repeat that if any muslim nation implements the islamic rules properly, with justice and in its entirety then you will see the difference straight away.

Sick is someone treats his wife like a garbage and the man commits adultery outside the house which is not being mentioned, but if his wife is fed up with her husband and does the same then she is being stoned to death for it. A criminal is someone who on order of foreigners destroys his own country and millions of lives but is first one to step forward to punish a woman for committing Zina. Ill-believers are those who are ignoring much more important things such as fighting poverty, illiteracy, injustice and looting in his country while bringing in light such an issue called 'Zina'.

Treating your wife like garbage is sick, Islam asks men to be good to their wives and treat them with respect and to look after their needs. Its a long topic, but our men practice parts of Islam and neglect the parts where it talks about rights of women, which brings me back to the point of people following parts of islam that suit them and reject the parts they dont like. Wats that about??? How can you call yourself muslim and reject the laws of Allah, it doesn't make sense. Allah knows more than us about wats humane and what is just. The fact that non-muslims end up in hell as a punishment rather than getting flowers, is there to show us that justice is there and it might not be pretty but if we truly understand the rewards of doing good, then you wont have to worry about the punishments. If you aren't a criminal you don't have to worry about brutal punishments...

[Shayesta]

This is what you fail to understand. Firstly millions have not been punished.

I said millions have been killed, that's not a punishment enough?

secondly Islam is a complete way of life.

But what if those people live in an Islamic nation, but don't feel Muslim by heart? Does death penalty only apply to Muslims or also non-Muslims residing in Islamic nations?

Its not about not making it a public issue, in the west we see many times when a person commits adultery it is leaked to the media because people wanna shame that person who commited adultery.

And usually they are celebrities who nonetheless will not get the death penalty.

Islam punishes criminals and gives them a chance through that punishment to be forgiven in the next life.

What if that 'criminal' made a mistake, not a sin? We are all human beings and all make mistakes, we don't know what circumstances some of them are under and what compelled them to put such an action forward? Shouldn't we listen to it's reason, before making it public?

Divorce is not the best option because that is the easy way out.

Then what is divorce mentioned for in the Quran-e-Sharif?

Coz an adulterer really doesn't care about being divorced or not, that is the last thing they care about...if they cared about the relationship they wouldn't have commited it.

Do you really think majority women in Islamic nations married upon their own wish? No, they didn't and that's why they got miserable married lives. So you never know whether they willingly committed to that relationship or not? Those who stand for stoning to death are so Islam-related anyway, then before that why don't they fight for the rights of marriage upon your own will? Wouldn't that be a huge step in preventing Zina in Islamic nations?

Forgiveness is mentioned in the Quran and even a murderer can be forgiven if their family agrees to it. Otherwise if they don't wanna forgive them, then the person is given death penalty.

So if the family does forgive them, they shouldn't be stoned to death? Then how do we know those stoned to death have been forgiven by their family or not?

Iran is not an islamic model, and i repeat that if any muslim nation implements the islamic rules properly, with justice and in its entirety then you will see the difference straight away.

But those women were 'criminals' because they committed adultery, isn't stoning to death the correct thing they are doing then?

you aren't a criminal you don't have to worry about brutal punishments...

I might sound very ignorant and irresponsible now, but this is the reason I don't understand Islam? There are millions of people who just haven't heard of Islam and nor got any sources to reach the information (see Africa) then what are they being put in hell for? Don't they deserve a fair chance? Like, sending a prophet to Africa as well?

[Saifullah]

Millions of people have been killed without any crime, just that they are living! Islam is about justice and who says you just hear about someone commiting adultery and the next day you kill them. There should be a proper process and a proper judgement. I mentioned the situation of Umar (ra) where he relaxed the rule of cuttin hands of the thief as people were in a state of famine. So this was meant to highlight that each case is seen separately and then the judge should give the best punishment.

If non-muslims practice stuff amongst themselves, then that is their business. It is like if a non-muslim worships idols you don't kill them. They are exempt from many laws of Islam, but they shouldn't make their actions public. How can you make a non-muslim act as a muslim. However some rules apply to all whether muslim or non-muslim, for example if the state says do not cross a red light, or if the state tries to ban drugs and so on.

A criminal doesn't make a mistake, he sins that is why we call him criminal. However a human being makes a mistake then he not labelled as a criminal. In Islam law there are many rules and that is why you need courts and judges. Because sometimes a person may kill someone by mistake, then he is forgiven. But nobody commits adultery by mistake, unless its rape or something else. But like i said we can't go into detail about every single case but we are talking generally. Islams general rule is like that, but there are exceptions which judge would know about.

Divorce is mentioned in the Quran as the most hated halal thing by Allah. We see many couples divorcing over small issues and Islam says work it out amongst yourselves and do not divorce. Divorce only comes when the couple have no other option but to divorce, like if husband is really violent and oppressing the woman and so on. He doesn't want to change etc...In adultery there is a punishment, divorce is not a punishment..the same way if your husband killed someone, death penalty is the punishment but divorce is not. you cant relate the two.

I told you that if a woman is forced to marry that is a void marriage, i am saying to you there isn't one islamic country following the laws Allah sent down thats why they are in a mess. Islam tackles all issues from the root, yes i agree if a woman is forced to marry it will cause problems, thats why islam doesn't allow it and whoever follows it is misguided.

We cannot call Iran an islamic state if it neglects many islamic rulings. We cannot impose punishments to a people, until we set up proper governance and implement all aspects of Islam and to cater for the people. It is unfair to neglect peoples need and just punish all the time, that is not Islam

So when you say adultery is a sin and stoning to death is correct, tomorrow an average guy on the street will say this person did adultery let us stone them to death. There needs to be process, state and judges etc...

Shayesta on your last point, if a person in the jungle has never heard of Islam, if they believe in one God then maybe Allah will have mercy on them. Just like Ibrahim (as) was brought up as a idol worshipper as his parents and ancestors did, but one day he sat down and said the sun is my god, but it disappeared, the moon is my god it didn't stay and then he kept looking for his god but then used the signs of Allah to realise that no his creator made all these things and he is eternal. This was without any message or prophet, but through his own thoughts. So how do you know who is sent to hell or not???

[Baygham]

.....................
Sick is someone treats his wife like a garbage and the man commits adultery outside the house which is not being mentioned, but if his wife is fed up with her husband and does the same then she is being stoned to death for it. A criminal is someone who on order of foreigners destroys his own country and millions of lives but is first one to step forward to punish a woman for committing Zina. Ill-believers are those who are ignoring much more important things such as fighting poverty, illiteracy, injustice and looting in his country while bringing in light such an issue called 'Zina'.

Shayesta khore,
This Zina punishtment is a way of dominence over a women. Men have always been dominent in primitive societies. Only in some societies in the last 50-100 years where sufficient women are empowered to have resources independantly of men have they come out of this dominence.

Islam belongs to the primitive bedoiun culture. In that culture women were not empowered except a very few like Khatheja. Take the story of Khatheja, she owned a bussiness, had servents, married a man 15 years her junior and he remained faithful to her until she died. A powerful women. Look what happened after Islam.

After islam no bussiness, no faithful monogomous husband, he marries 13 times more, 6-7 at one time. Count the powerfull women in the whole ancient literature of Islam. Where is Queen shieba, even Khatheja. Ayesha tried and they locked her up. The prophets own daughters were no more than servents, two got married to one guy (usman) the beloved Fatima had Ali, with three other wives and by some estimates 32 concubines.

Secondly it is a way to keep large harems for the few. When Taimur found out that one of his concubines looked at some one he ordered all to keep strict 'parda'. and had her eyes burned or something. That way his Harem is more secured. No contact with males and kill those that disobey.The sahabas kept hundreds of concubines. No body can count the women Hazrat Hasan, kept (reportedly his longest marriage lasted 2 weeks), Ali had 4 wives and countless concubines. it got so worse that Lodhi kept 40000 slaves, men and women all avaiable as concubines.

In another thread I asked these mullahs if they would kill their sister if the Quran did not sanction it and one said NO. That should open the eyes of everyone who defends Islam and wants mullah omar to return.

[BehavedMaseed]

If one takes a good look at Spartan Society and the role woman played you would be amazed. Women walked freely and were seen as godnesses and were never harmed nor disrespected. Its all about our upbringing. Our respect for women is very low and we need to work on it.

[Shayesta]

Millions of people have been killed without any crime, just that they are living!

They have been killed for even talking to a guy because it's said to be haraam talking to a stranger guy in private. Now I know in Islam death isn't the punishment for that, but what I trying to refer at if women weren't supposed to be controlled so much in Islam by men, such things might not have occurred either.

If non-muslims practice stuff amongst themselves, then that is their business. It is like if a non-muslim worships idols you don't kill them. They are exempt from many laws of Islam, but they shouldn't make their actions public.

So let's say those who committed Zina don't consider themselves Muslims but are afraid to express that, wouldn't they yet get a punishment of stoning to death because even if you say you are not a Muslim any more that could mean your death anyway?

Because sometimes a person may kill someone by mistake, then he is forgiven. But nobody commits adultery by mistake, unless its rape or something else.

Oh adultery surely can be committed by mistake! Sometimes when someone kills a person per accident, that's because the person doesn't realize what he doing because if he was in sense, he wouldn't have done that. Same can be applied for adultery, for example when a woman or man is extremely unhappy in their marriage, the woman faces torture and they meet someone who calms their heart and mind. Many people in such cases lose their sense and do things they would never have if they were not emotional and nor heart-broken. Do you get my point?

In adultery there is a punishment, divorce is not a punishment..the same way if your husband killed someone, death penalty is the punishment but divorce is not.

Difference between adultery and murdering someone is that in adultery you are not taking away someone's life and therefore nor should your life be taken away from you.

So how do you know who is sent to hell or not???

Because that's what's promised in the Quran-e-Sharif; Muslims will go to heaven and if they made sins then they will go to heaven after receiving their punishment, while non-Muslims will all go to hell because they don't recite the Kalima before their death. Anyone who read full Quran-e-Sharif can refute me if I am wrong.

Moreover, I don't wanna sound like I am all right with adultery because none has the right to play with his/her partner's life. But all I am saying is there are many reasons in Islamic nations why people do this and we don't have the right to judge their reason. Reason why Muslims commit Zina is because divorce is not an option because men would rather kill their women and justify their satisfaction rather than divorcing her and being seen as 'incompetent' man in the society.

[Saifullah]

I think i have made my points regarding this, i will just comment on your last point. I am saying if a person in a jungle has never heard of Islam or seen the Quran yet he contemplates upon the creation and says there must be one creator who created us and these things, it cant be by change. How can we say is this person gonna be in hell fire or in heaven? That is upto Allah he understands the circumstances of everyone...

Now obviously a disbeliever of Allah will go to hell...many muslims by name might go to hell, munafiqs remember are worse than Kafirs and so many people who say they are muslims might indeed go to the lowest levels of hell fire