Trump considers total troop withdrawal in afghanistan as strategists struggle to comb

[maneatinglizard]

Mossoud was as much a failure as Hekmatyar, Dostum, Najib and all those warlord idiots who were out only for themselves. All of those mentioned would rather destroy Afghanistan rather than have the other guy have it. He could not keep Kabul safe nor bring any order to it. Under his watch the cities was completely destroyed, women raped and homes looted.

There is no irrationality to hate those men. They did damage to millions of people and strengthened outside leverage over the country.

Massoud's biggest success was manipulating his own reputation. He was a master at controlling his image, and even now Western media continues to portray him as a hero, even though there have been multiple studies and reports that reveal the massacres and other wrongdoings he was involved in.

He was in fact responsible for some of the worst atrocities of the war, including some of the heaviest bombing of civilian areas, torturing and mutilating enemy soldiers, etc. Apparently he once had a hospital bombed because he though Gulbadin was being treated there.

The Durrani empire rose because the Moghuls and Persians were in disarray. Today the Pakis and Iran are Strong. Afghanistan has much potential. It has mineral resources and can block water to Pakistan and Iran but you need a strong national gov to make that happen. Treasonous Thieves run the gov who sell everything pennies on the dollar just to fill their pockets.

I wouldn't call Pakistan strong, but otherwise I agree. Our problem is leadership.

[khushal]

Come on bro, don't turn this into a Pashtun vs Tajik thing. I know Tajiks who hate him because of his politicking with the Soviets, and the Pashtuns I know always praised the quality of his fighters, as well as Panjshiris in general. You do a disservice to us by claiming we just dislike him because of his ethnicity.

Your argument doesn't even make sense, as you claim on one hand that Massoud had the best armed troops, but then say he didn't win the war because of a lack of access to weapons. How could his failures be blamed on weaponry when you accept that he had better arms than everyone else?

Most Farsiwan play the "race card" whenever you criticize one of their leaders instead of pointing to the merits of the men we are criticizing. When we criticize Najib, they say nothing, but when we criticize Masoud, it is because he was Tajik.

He does this alot. He says he had the best trained and organized troops but he could not even keep Kabul safe. That does not even make sense.

Pashtuns did not rally around Hekmatyar because pashtuns realized these guys are only in it for themselves. They were not ideologues and would betray their ideology for self interests.

[khushal]

There were a number of Zazai Pashtuns in Jamiat Islami, and they all corroborate this too.
.

I think you are referring to Zazi that were with Sayaf who was an ally of Jamiat.

[toughpashtun]

According to CIA declassified info, they suspected he had struck deals with the Soviets which is why they stopped funding him in the early 80's.

Its amazing how he still ended up being remembered as a hero of the anti soviet resistance.

[khushal]

Its amazing how he still ended up being remembered as a hero of the anti soviet resistance.

Its not amazing. It fits in perfectly with the Corporate Elites narrative of "they hate us because they hate our freedoms" even though he and others who are in power now brought the country destruction, rape and looting.

[Firdousi]

Most Farsiwan play the "race card" whenever you criticize one of their leaders instead of pointing to the merits of the men we are criticizing. When we criticize Najib, they say nothing, but when we criticize Masoud, it is because he was Tajik.

He does this alot. He says he had the best trained and organized troops but he could not even keep Kabul safe. That does not even make sense.

Pashtuns did not rally around Hekmatyar because pashtuns realized these guys are only in it for themselves. They were not ideologues and would betray their ideology for self interests.

Off course we will play the race card, WHAT DID YOU EXPECT?????

Its good to remember Pashtuns that it was you who started the ethnic wars. It was you who systematically discriminated non Pashtuns. It was you you held the most important positions in the government, army, society, etc. Four decades ago non Pashtuns did not count. no matter how Pashtun rulers became Persianized or how they promoted our culture over theirs. At the end of the day they were Pashtuns not Tajiks.

Pashtuns started the ethnic discrimination you shouldn't complain now that you lost. Most of non Pashtuns got those times deep rooted in their psyche. I know its irrational, that we should and must move on, forgive each other. I know non Pashtuns are no good neither and that they have made many mistakes and discriminated against Pashtuns, but emotions will always beat reason. We are all human beings after all.

He did keep Kabul safe. He defeated Hezb Wahdat, he defeated Hezb Islami, and he even defeated the Taliban. Taliban bribed the Shura of Jalalabad and attacked the city from to fronts (southern and eastern) with superior manpower. Tajiks were are and will always be better organized than Pashtuns. Your tribal mentality is your worst enemy. Even if Tajiks forces are defeated we will eventually come back basically if you want a stable government, with stable institutions and civil societies you need urban Tajiks to do so. Tribal Pashtuns can't do this. If the Taliban take over in a matter of few decades their elites will eventually become Persianized just like other Pashtuns did. Its imposible to stop it dude.

[maneatinglizard]

I think you are referring to Zazi that were with Sayaf who was an ally of Jamiat.

Nope, there were Zazai that held prominent positions within Jamiat. You're part Zazai right? if your family kept connections with Zazi back then they'll probably know who I'm talking about.

Its amazing how he still ended up being remembered as a hero of the anti soviet resistance.

History is written by the victors. The Western media loved him, and his faction founded the current Afghan government. With that in mind, it should be easier to see why a traitor ended up being branded as the hero of Afghanistan.

[khushal]

Off course we will play the race card, WHAT DID YOU EXPECT?????

Its good to remember Pashtuns that it was you who started the ethnic wars. It was you who systematically discriminated non Pashtuns. It was you you held the most important positions in the government, army, society, etc. Four decades ago non Pashtuns did not count. no matter how Pashtun rulers became Persianized or how they promoted our culture over theirs. At the end of the day they were Pashtuns not Tajiks.

Pashtuns started the ethnic discrimination you shouldn't complain now that you lost. Most of non Pashtuns got those times deep rooted in their psyche. I know its irrational, that we should and must move on, forgive each other. I know non Pashtuns are no good neither and that they have made many mistakes and discriminated against Pashtuns, but emotions will always beat reason. We are all human beings after all.

He did keep Kabul safe. He defeated Hezb Wahdat, he defeated Hezb Islami, and he even defeated the Taliban. Taliban bribed the Shura of Jalalabad and attacked the city from to fronts (southern and eastern) with superior manpower. Tajiks were are and will always be better organized than Pashtuns. Your tribal mentality is your worst enemy. Even if Tajiks forces are defeated we will eventually come back basically if you want a stable government, with stable institutions and civil societies you need urban Tajiks to do so. Tribal Pashtuns can't do this. If the Taliban take over in a matter of few decades their elites will eventually become Persianized just like other Pashtuns did. Its imposible to stop it dude.

Dude, the only reason you could speak farsi is because your from afghanistan, The farsiwan in the soviet republics have all been Russiafied and it was your Masoud Grandfather who ran from the Soviets to Afghanistan because he did not want to lose his culture nor language. In Iran, Farsi has been in decline for a long time, it is mostly Arabic today. Your thinking too much from a point of view of a fear of being dominated and paranoia of pashtuns. I guess selfish Masoud and prodigies brainwashed you guys pretty good because that is the only way tajik populous was going to back him into getting everything for himself. It also reeks of inferiority complex.

What your saying are all lies. The only people who were marginalized were the Hazaras.

You should be thanking pashtuns for saving you.
Your welcome by the way.

[khushal]

Nope, there were Zazai that held prominent positions within Jamiat. You're part Zazai right? if your family kept connections with Zazi back then they'll probably know who I'm talking about.

Dawood from the village of Britskheil is the only one I could think of. I heard he had pictures of Sayaf, Masoud and Rabani in his marqoz. He hardly knows how to read and write and he was an MP for a few years and made a bunch of land development deals with Sayaf in Kabul.

[toughpashtun]

Its not amazing. It fits in perfectly with the Corporate Elites narrative of "they hate us because they hate our freedoms" even though he and others who are in power now brought the country destruction, rape and looting.

You're right that this guy did play a role in the civil war.

[toughpashtun]

History is written by the victors. The Western media loved him, and his faction founded the current Afghan government. With that in mind, it should be easier to see why a traitor ended up being branded as the hero of Afghanistan.

I think he gained popularity with the western media after he started resisting the Taliban after they rose to power.
In other words , both Massoud and the West had a common enemy; the Taliban.

[Firdousi]

I think he gained popularity with the western media after he started resisting the Taliban after they rose to power.
In other words , both Massoud and the West had a common enemy; the Taliban.

The West despite losing most of their interest in Afghanistan once commies were defeated, was quite happy about the Taliban taking over. They were good at keeping Iranian influence at bay. Its their own stupidity, warmongerims and greed which has helped their Iranian enemy to raise. They are behind their own defeat.

[Firdousi]

Dude, the only reason you could speak farsi is because your from afghanistan, The farsiwan in the soviet republics have all been Russiafied and it was your Masoud Grandfather who ran from the Soviets to Afghanistan because he did not want to lose his culture nor language. In Iran, Farsi has been in decline for a long time, it is mostly Arabic today. Your thinking too much from a point of view of a fear of being dominated and paranoia of pashtuns. I guess selfish Masoud and prodigies brainwashed you guys pretty good because that is the only way tajik populous was going to back him into getting everything for himself. It also reeks of inferiority complex.

What your saying are all lies. The only people who were marginalized were the Hazaras.

You should be thanking pashtuns for saving you.
Your welcome by the way.

There is a Persian saying that says that when you come across a stone and you can not lift it, just kiss it, leave it alone and move on.

You see brother we have had this debate several times. Its pretty obvious we will never reach a point of understanding when it comes to Massoud. Lets stop it here because we get too emotional. Its pretty obvious we both are a bit biased due to our own ethnic backgrounds. Lets just move on.

[khushal]

There is a Persian saying that says that when you come across a stone and you can not lift it, just kiss it, leave it alone and move on.

You see brother we have had this debate several times. Its pretty obvious we will never reach a point of understanding when it comes to Massoud. Lets stop it here because we get too emotional. Its pretty obvious we both are a bit biased due to our own ethnic backgrounds. Lets just move on.

I'm not coming from a biased position. Masoud was 100 times better than Najib but I put Masoud in the same basket as Hekmatyar, Sayaf and all the other selfish warlords.
I also think that Kalakani was better than all those pashtun kings of his time including the pimps Amanullah Khan, Nadir Khan, Zahir Khan.

[Firdousi]

I'm not coming from a biased position. Masoud was 100 times better than Najib but I put Masoud in the same basket as Hekmatyar, Sayaf and all the other selfish warlords.
I also think that Kalakani was better than all those pashtun kings of his time including the pimps Amanullah Khan, Nadir Khan, Zahir Khan.

Thats my point: that I don't believe Massoud was fighting for himself but unlike Hekmatyar, Ismael Khan or Dostum he had a legit cause whether we agree with it or not. Same thing goes for Najibullah, Daud Khan,.. all these people seriously believed in their causes. And I also believe Hematyar, Sayyaf and even Dostum have changed. They are not the same guys who destroyed our country 25 years ago.

I dont dislike Amanullah. At least he tried to modernize our country.