What the 10 Christian Missionaries were doing in Badakhsan

[Catya Sher]

I'm going to look these videos after, but I have to say it is SO EMBARRASSING that these Americans and Westerners are there propagating their interpretations in such an aggressive way.
I remember back in the 1980s, there was SERVE. It worked in the refugee camps and around Peshawar. The American women were trained to wear very conservative outfits to avoid censure, but they were ALWAYS by everyone suspected of being spies.
I expect that was the motivation in this recent case.

I have a book it's too boring to finish but called "In Afghanistan" about a Billy Graham devotee who worked in Afghanistan 2001 and was lauded far and wide for staying there after the sept 11 events. Big deal, but the point is that his eyes were SO SCARY.
I mean almost diabolical - to me. However, he was feted through the media as having powerful eyes or something dumb like that.
Why? Because he was a Billy Graham Christian which struck a chord amongst the many in the U.S.
Why on earth are these people lionized ? We will not hear the end of this present case for a long time, as they are eulogized as "do=gooders".
But then where are all the "do=gooders" who are NOT Christian missionaries?
Why do the two have to go hand in hand from America?
Where are the Muslim groups helping Afghans -?! THEY should be over there helping out as dentists, optometrists as these recent people were.
The whole thing is confusing to me and I can't quite get a grip on it, same as with that mysterious SERVE from before.
Anybody have ideas?

[Catya Sher]

Thank You, Samima - Yes, that MUST be why. It's been bothering me for a long time, since those earlier days I mentioned.

My observations are that these American-sponsored missionaries all seem to share a weird robotic quality to them, from the ones I saw and the guy in this book. [ I can't wait to take it back, but I thought it might have one or two insights of historical value of what it was like to be there at that juncture.]

So, let's say the average "Christian" missionary is easily programmed and an obedient worker bee.
That means he or she will train the Afghan converts - if there really ARE any, I am dubious myself, I bet any numbers are vastly exaggerated by these Christian organizations to make themselves look effective to their donors or sponsors - to be obedient helpers - though for what exactly.

Hence the Afghan Christian community could be mobilized, for what, though? To spread pro-Western ideas? To form a "cadre" to use a Communist=era term, of potential government officials under a supposed neutral regime when the Western countries leave Afghanistan?

I think the whole scheme to create a non-indigenous Christian group in Muslim countries is pathetic and misguided. Certainly laughably naive at best. It's the silliest of all in Afghanistan with 99% Muslim population. This offshoot of the NATO invasion reveals how off in dreamland are the planners.

[Catya Sher]

[Side note to Jasmine! I figured that you all forgot and maybe no one was that interested anyway..>
In fact I have been assembling material from my files and even photos.
But I have to learn how to post them and too, very importantly, if it's advisable, for I wouldn't want to cause harm to anyone still alive.
So I am weighing all this.
Too, I really have A LOT of material which I think would be of interest historically for everyone if not today later in the future, like Admin Khan mentioned about having threads for future generations, it's really a good idea to preserve all the articles that people like you too have written.
Therefore, I have hesitated, thinking maybe the material might belong in Pashtun History rather than Education, where no one will see it? And newcomers to the site or researchers may not realize to search.

These are not creative writing as much as perspectives on historical situations.
I am eager to read yours too - you said you were there taking notes, in one thread: talk about History being recorded !

So these thoughts are making me hesitate before starting posting.
The first articles will take more time, but after that the transcribing is much easier.

So what if we seek to gain approval to post in Pashtun History - or start a little branch for our and other members' reportage - is this a useful idea ?]

Yusufzai: Yeah, that's the key, to form that nucleus. I was remembering how right away very early in the 2000s, stories were played up in the Western media about some problem of a Christian with a court in Afghanistan.
[AS IF nothing else were happening there or elsewhere in the world but that one discrimination against Christians. I couldn't believe it.]
Maybe the community was so small at that time that the powers that be decided to accelerate the conversion process so they could really complain loudly to the rest of the world. And once again, all the Yahoo News commenters could vent all their anger on "those awful Muslims". The stuff these uneducated Americans write is unbelievably barbaric - exactly what they are accusing Muslims of.

[Qazi Saad Yousafzai]

I want to ask sumthing and im NOT TRYING TO SUGGEST ANYTHING; By sunnah, does an islamic state allow preaching other religions as a part of religious independence and rights??

[Master Khan]

To be honest christianity is dead now, here in UK only old people and some Africans go to chruch, but Islam is strong, on Friday its hard to find a spot in the mosque here in my town.

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

Thank You, Samima - Yes, that MUST be why. It's been bothering me for a long time, since those earlier days I mentioned.

My observations are that these American-sponsored missionaries all seem to share a weird robotic quality to them, from the ones I saw and the guy in this book. [ I can't wait to take it back, but I thought it might have one or two insights of historical value of what it was like to be there at that juncture.]

So, let's say the average "Christian" missionary is easily programmed and an obedient worker bee.
That means he or she will train the Afghan converts - if there really ARE any, I am dubious myself, I bet any numbers are vastly exaggerated by these Christian organizations to make themselves look effective to their donors or sponsors - to be obedient helpers - though for what exactly.

Hence the Afghan Christian community could be mobilized, for what, though? To spread pro-Western ideas? To form a "cadre" to use a Communist=era term, of potential government officials under a supposed neutral regime when the Western countries leave Afghanistan?

I think the whole scheme to create a non-indigenous Christian group in Muslim countries is pathetic and misguided. Certainly laughably naive at best. It's the silliest of all in Afghanistan with 99% Muslim population. This offshoot of the NATO invasion reveals how off in dreamland are the planners.

So Muslim preachers in the West should propagate their lies while Koreans and Americans in Afghanistan should keep their fairy-tales to themselves? What's with the Jesus-phobia? What goes around comes around and when it doesn't come around, I make sure it does.


Therefore, I did something very naughty below:

Thank You, God - You MUST have given me the strength to make this post. It's been bothering me for a long time, since those earlier days I mentioned but ye hast bestowed upon me Pentium II computer with optical mouse and fancy keyboard.

My observations are that these Saudi-sponsored missionaries all seem to share a weird robotic quality to them, from the ones I saw and the guy on Youtube and Revolution Muslim. [ I can't wait to take it back, but I thought it might have one or two insights of historical value of what it was like to be there at that juncture.]

So, let's say the average "Salafi" missionary is easily programmed and an obedient worker bee.
That means he or she will train the American converts - if there really ARE any, I am dubious myself, I bet any numbers are vastly exaggerated by these Muslim organizations to make themselves look effective to their donors or sponsors - to be obedient helpers - though for what exactly.

Hence the American Muslim covert community could be mobilized, for what, though? To spread pro-Islamist ideas? To form a "brotherhood" to use a Khilafa=era term, of potential government officials under a supposed neutral regime when the Western countries are not being watchful?

I think the whole scheme to create a non-indigenous Muslim group in Western countries is pathetic and misguided. Certainly laughably naive at best. It's the silliest of all in the West with 95-7% Christian and non-affiliated populations. This offshoot of the Saudi Salafi ideological invasion reveals how off in dreamland are the Muslim planners.

[Zarawar]

To be honest christianity is dead now, here in UK only old people and some Africans go to chruch, but Islam is strong, on Friday its hard to find a spot in the mosque here in my town.

This is killing the atheist and the anti-Islamic crowed out there, with all this so called terrorist attacks and labeling, Islam is still the fastest growing religion in USA and the rest of the planet. We're always going to have a black sheep amongst us, but we have to look at how fast Islam is spreading also, the world doesn't end at a Pashtun becoming a murtad. Trust me there are Pashtuns that are muslims but are of no use to the Pashtun society, they have damaged the picture of Islam and Pashtunwali more than any atheist or non Muslim out there.

[Zarawar]

I was just reading about the slain medical workers, it's possible, that they could really be there to spread Christianity and use people's poverty and innocence. For those that think it is robbers or there is no motive behind. The organization did admit that they were carrying bibles, I know some might say, oh we carry Quran in US or their (western) countries, does that mean they will start executing us too? Well, since the west follows democracy and secularism, it's a part of the system, not to interfere in people's religious business. Afghanistan is a very conservative society, a group of foreigners, traveling all over the mountainous region, getting caught with bibles? What do you expect the Taliban to do with them? real talk..
Do the west spares civilian taliban lives? By civilian Taliban, I mean the real Tolaba e Karam, as in not front line fighters, but rather the spiritual students or Qaris etc. I've heard dozens of incidents where they have raided a village mosque, killed the preacher, Qaris, and either took some to bagram or let their dogs bite them. Or lets put that aside, what about when they raid houses and kill elderly people, some with more than 15 bullet wounds. How can you accidentally shoot someone 25 times? it's obvious, there are no rules in war, You do not defeat an Empire fighting by their rules.
It makes sense, how even the media has started to side with the coalition propaganda, up to extreme. Their (western media's) liability was questionable a while back, but now it's obvious and clear that we don't get the first hand and real news. Everything gets twisted and is presented in a way, where seculars/democrats will sigh and pay condolences to the subject or the so called victim. Whereas, when civilians die or someone like a mosque Mullah dies, they label them as a spiritual leader or the recruiter.
Another important point to be noted is, most of the missionaries that go around the world are not going to approach an Islamic society with 10 feet crosses (Saleeb) over their shoulders. Instead, they are going to go there as medics, doctors and what not, that's the case with the missionaries in Africa and anywhere else in the world.

[Catya Sher]

That's a very fair and helpful explanation!
The sly way that news items like this are played up to the absolute hilt for the Western audience and worldwide Christians. These, by the way, tend to be much more fervent in other countries than they are in US, UK, as Master Khan said, Europe, etc. All those beautiful Gothic Cathedrals in France and elsewhere are visited by tourists, not attendees at a Catholic Mass. To me it's very sad. Yet: when faced with THIS news, suddenly they re-discover their religious sentiment and get up in arms or at least indignant. I looked at Catholic Online and this killing is the main article, as with the secular Western media too. They have slide shows and endless repackagings and recaps of the story, though little more information has come to light about what happened.

You guys may not be too aware about this angle but Catholics and Protestants have been hostile enemies for centuries until recent decades of - ick - "ecumenism" efforts to minimize differences.

Here is my point: Suddenly all these differences vanish in the face of "The Muslim Threat" upon which they both generally agree to be a terrible menace! You have to realize, these people are sophisticated in terms of technology, science. But their souls are very small and childlike without the warmth of children. This leads to such insular sentiments as "Those terrible Muslims, always after us".

They hardly ever met a Muslim and they don't know the first thing about Islam. But they are mindlessly hostile toward Muslims because of centuries of religious upbringing such as the Crusades mentality of "go get those 'Saracens' who are audaciously in "our" holy land". This mentality was being fanned into a huge fire from before 2001 even but rapidly accelerated since.

So this story is almost made to order to unite Christians of all backgrounds and nationalities. I looked a few random comments when the news broke. Only one person out of 10 questioned why this group was allowed to work over there by the US authorities, considering the blatant risks the members were taking.
A fair question showing some ability to reason. But the rest were caught up in vitriolic anger, as they are intended to probably by the way this story is presented and reinforced over and over.

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

lol i feel sorry for these afghan children who are learning this genocidal and racist desert superstition of the ancient and barbaric judeans, which was reinterpreted by european or more specifically formerly pagan roman priests and was further reinterpreted by angry beer-soaked germans whose intoxicated-on-jesus descendants preached it to the far eastern mongoloid people, who have taken it upon themselves to perpetuate this malevolent cancerous lie to poor, uneducated afghan children.

lol

[Catya Sher]

I was amused by the reprise of my comment - but let's face it, if strange groups like the Moonies, started by a Korean by the way - can freely proselytize in the U.S., why can't any Muslim group likewise? There's nothing wrong with that.

But it's culturally arrogant or naive of Western religious groups to invade territory where they weren't specifically welcomed to spread their interpretations of Christianity. Afghanistan is not "Anna and the King of Siam" from the 1850s or 60s.
Afghans have a very sharp sense of identity, unlike many other peoples.
So, I think it's overbearing to send these well meaning foreigners to help out with no doubt quiet hopes for them to secretly make converts to their simplistic Protestant religions.
I never heard of any Catholic missionaries going to Afghanistan, ever in history.

Muslims love Jesus too! Who says they need to change their beliefs to suit born-again Christians, for whom there are two things as the way to get to heaven: The fundamentalist Jesus, and the Bible.

So we have to remember, for these people carrying a Bible may not mean this is their leisure reading, like one might take a book of pop spirituality along for a little uplift. For them, this IS almost like their God. They deny anything else, so rigid is their way.

This campaign is forcing Afghans who are fervent but still quite flexible, into a religious shoe box too small for their souls. How many Afghans and Pashtuns are going to buy this Christian fundamentalist belief system? None except those desperate for an excuse to go to America.


The missionaries would do better to go where they are truly welcome, not use this guise of providing aid, as Zarawar rightly said.
I think they singled out Afghanistan partly too, because of the ethic of Melmastia. So their targets are accessible. This may not be the case in other cultures, which would give Western missionaries a cold shoulder and refuse access to their families and homes.

[Zarawar]

Catya sher my question is why would they carry a bible to begin with if they are into medical they should get the job done and call it a day. Why carry a bible around.

They are a Christian group, they never denied that. They are even registered with the government as a Christian aid group.
The government is to blame up to most extent, they shouldn't let such controversial groups operate in remote areas like Badakhshan. Where God knows what these missionaries preach and God knows in return for what? probably a loaf of bread. Their preys are innocent, Kazak and Tajik kids..
The government backers might say, Oh so you are not going to accept free aid, just because they are Christians? No, we shouldn't, and even if we should, there should be rules and regulations. Like mentioned before, Afghanistan is a conservative society. How do you expect the rebels to even give it a second thought? they had no other option but to execute them.
The first time I saw an Afghan convert was in US and he had kept the conversion a secrete. Until, I visited his house and I saw a bible in Farsi laying between a stalk of other books, that just struck me so hard that I don't remember how I drove home, I kept thinking and had these weird thoughts, because I had never witnessed anything like that before, I had heard about it but that was about it.
NOW----
What do you expect when you find a group of foreigners preaching Christianity in your hometown (in that case, this would be coming from the local rebels that took part in the operation). Specially, when they are carrying bibles translated into the local language. This is the nature of a war.........
Foreigners shouldn't fool us with a loaf of bread or a pill or two, assuming we'll accept Christianity.
Not sure if anyone has heard this before, but there is a famous saying about Afghans. It implies perfectly to the current situation, and the dependent puppet leaders:
You can rent Afghans, but you can never buy them
I remember Karzai's defensive speech against US, the minute they stopped the flow of money and support for him.
Although, he is back on track for now. I'm assuming they probably signed another contract with him, this time they are going to rent him for a little bit more. Anyways, I left the topic, sorry.

[Master Khan]

They are not helping them but instend they are teaching them christianity and forcing them this bull****.
I support the talibans for their killings.

[eyeliner]

they give them food in one hand and a bible in the other

[Master Khan]

these people are islam dushmanaans.
they will never suceed their mission...Taliban will hunt them down.