Protests in Istanbul Continue for Second Day

[Shah-i-Kot]

Protests in Istanbul Continue for Second Day - The Daily Beast


Protests in Istanbul Continue for Second Day

Clashes between protesters and police are raging for the second day in a row in Istanbul’s Taksim Square, with bottles and tear-gas shells being thrown back and forth between the two. Demonstrators took to the street initially to protest the the government’s decision to replace Taksim’s Gezi Park with a shopping mall. Friday, the clash between police and protesters went from antagonistic to violent. “I’ve been in the protests since yesterday afternoon; it’s been a long couple of days for us,” said a 31-year-old musician wearing a mask to protect against tear gas. “Now we’re protesting not because of some trees, but because we’re sick of this oppression and this police brutality against people.” Turkey’s Prime Minister said the police’s use of excessive force will be investigated, but he also decried the protests as “dishonest” and motivated by “dark figures linked to terrorism.” In a televised speech he said, “The police were there yesterday, are there today and will be there tomorrow, because Taksim cannot be a square where extremists run wild.”

[Shah-i-Kot]

these protests were due to the anti-alcohol bill LOL. Egyptian style protest movement? Yeah right.

It will probably fade out in a few days.

[DaZahroJaam.]

it's not just the alcohol ban. people are arrested and disappearing for crimes that no one is providing any evidence for. various laws that no one had ever heard of before are emerging suddenly and from no where.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Protests in Istanbul Continue for Second Day - The Daily Beast


Protests in Istanbul Continue for Second Day

Clashes between protesters and police are raging for the second day in a row in Istanbul’s Taksim Square, with bottles and tear-gas shells being thrown back and forth between the two. Demonstrators took to the street initially to protest the the government’s decision to replace Taksim’s Gezi Park with a shopping mall. Friday, the clash between police and protesters went from antagonistic to violent. “I’ve been in the protests since yesterday afternoon; it’s been a long couple of days for us,” said a 31-year-old musician wearing a mask to protect against tear gas. “Now we’re protesting not because of some trees, but because we’re sick of this oppression and this police brutality against people.” Turkey’s Prime Minister said the police’s use of excessive force will be investigated, but he also decried the protests as “dishonest” and motivated by “dark figures linked to terrorism.” In a televised speech he said, “The police were there yesterday, are there today and will be there tomorrow, because Taksim cannot be a square where extremists run wild.”

Erdogan has the will of the rural masses in overturning Ataturk's idiotic slavocracy and military dictatorship.

These are the funded Ataturkists who were pretty much quiet and celebrating a decade and a half ago when their leaders were torturing and imprisoning Turks left and right.

What goes around comes around as they say.

Its the same phenomena as in Egypt where it is now shown that interventionists are trying their utmost to overturn the popular order. Remember, the surveys, Pew Polling, Maryland research pretty much was on the mark when it predicted the sorts of governments these folks would vote in:

"Scheuer: My guess on that is that since Morsi and the Brotherhood were elected in fair and open elections, the United States and its allies have been working with the opposition to get them out on the streets. Anything with the term “Islamic” in it scares these people to death. I suspect that Mrs. Clinton’s State Department, the British Foreign Office, have been helping the opposition forces with computers and money and organizational skills and that kind of thing. It just goes against the grain to me somehow when we keep having fairly-elected governments and then we have a government that we don’t like and we try to overthrow it. It’s a ridiculous situation. It’s kind of a quiet intervention, but in the long run perhaps a more damaging kind of intervention. What we’re saying to the Egyptian people is that you’re so stupid you believe in religion and you wanted these people in power. We’re going to fix you with these secularists. We’ll push them into power. Really all that will result is a civil war like we’re watching in Syria."

[Admin Khan]

Speaking to my friends that generally form the Turkish intellectuals, some which are the brightest in their countries, several of them claim Erdogan is acting like a dictator, by using police force unreservedly, which even I agree with, and Erdogan agrees with as well[as per his speech he condemned the force], however, Turkey despite being 99% Muslim generally feels like it has seen most of its progress as a secular nation, and feels that all he is somehow tarnishing its reputation, a claim for which they could not provide evidence to me for. Another subset of my Turkish friends openly condemn Ataturk, in fact, one of my closest friend calls him a 'Zion', and claims he was as Jew in disguise. My observation is that the nation is still divided, and can't unite on a common ideology.

A fact which I do condemn the military for, is enforcing the Hijab ban on Turkish universities. It is beyond disgusting that a woman in the USA can enter a university with or without hijab, yet in Muslim majority Turkiye, she is required to take off her hijab. Even though Erdogan has sort of lifted the ban, some pro-Ataturk guards, i.e I've heard in Bilkent in particular enforces this nonsensical rule.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Speaking to my friends that generally form the Turkish intellectuals, some which are the brightest in their countries, several of them claim Erdogan is acting like a dictator, by using police force unreservedly,

I have some similar minded friends. Nice people, but hell bent on conspiracy theories. Ask them about Fateh Gulen. They are obsessed with the notion that Fateh Gulen and the US are the pupeteers and Erdogan is the puppet. Its just about the biggest load of garbage I have ever seen.

They point to the wealth of the charter schools and claim that the schools are built by US investment. Yet they forget that the wealthy Anatolian elites derive their roots from the religious rural masses that followed Syed Nursi. That is where Gulen got his start from.

which even I agree with, and Erdogan agrees with as well[as per his speech he condemned the force],

I would say that videos of the 90s ought to be played for these people as they are strapped down in chairs with their eyelids taped up. The police brutality or Erdogan is hardly the stuff of torture legends the Turkish Army and its Ataturkian crowd was known for.

That they are this pissed over not getting booze is about as idiotic as it comes.

however, Turkey despite being 99% Muslim generally feels like it has seen most of its progress as a secular nation,

Investment perhaps to a degree. Turkey, like Japan was a relatively wealthy nation when it fell. It had infrastructure to work with. The last 10 years have seen immense economic growth as well so thats a little lopsided of them.

and feels that all he is somehow tarnishing its reputation,

These are the urban elites who enjoyed widespread gains under the former regime and benefited immensely. They really tarnished the reputation of Turkey by passing laws that made it punishable to insult ATaturk as if it were blasphemy law.

a claim for which they could not provide evidence to me for.

Thats what I have seen as well.

Another subset of my Turkish friends openly condemn Ataturk, in fact, one of my closest friend calls him a 'Zion', and claims he was as Jew in disguise. My observation is that the nation is still divided, and can't unite on a common ideology.

This is the price of interventionalism the East. They have injected ideologies and you see this radicalization to both polar ends in all of these countries. Thats how the Baath got their rise in Syria and Iraq as well.

A fact which I do condemn the military for, is enforcing the Hijab ban on Turkish universities. It is beyond disgusting that a woman in the USA can enter a university with or without hijab, yet in Muslim majority Turkiye, she is required to take off her hijab.

One of these "intellectual" guys claimed its to deter the religious zealots and said that its a valid deterrent. An idiotic argument if I do say so myself.

Even though Erdogan has sort of lifted the ban, some pro-Ataturk guards, i.e I've heard in Bilkent in particular enforces this nonsensical rule.

Turkey deserves its unreserved freedom and its rural masses now are at the helm. If left alone they will find their healthy middle ground. Instead, i suspect Erdogan has pissed of certain neighbors by calling a spade a spade and the pressure is ratcheting up on him.

[Admin Khan]

Turkey deserves its unreserved freedom and its rural masses now are at the helm. If left alone they will find their healthy middle ground. Instead, i suspect Erdogan has pissed of certain neighbors by calling a spade a spade and the pressure is ratcheting up on him.

Well said.

Erdogan has a heavy following, and recognize that while most Turks generally don't care much about Islam, he has managed to influence millions in the country with his policies. I generally feel like Turkey is progressing directly because of Erdogan, and like I told my Turkish friends, I wish Afghanistan could have an Erdogan like President. Although to be honest BA, I am not quite fond of Erdogans support for the Syrian rebels. To be frank, I feel like Syria will end up like another Iraq or Libya if Assad is taken out, and the solution to Syria's problem must be Syrian-led, Syrian-owned. Funding rebels is NOT cool.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Well said.

Erdogan has a heavy following, and recognize that while most Turks generally don't care much about Islam, he has managed to influence millions in the country with his policies. I generally feel like Turkey is progressing directly because of Erdogan, and like I told my Turkish friends, I wish Afghanistan could have an Erdogan like President. Although to be honest BA, I am not quite fond of Erdogans support for the Syrian rebels. To be frank, I feel like Syria will end up like another Iraq or Libya if Assad is taken out, and the solution to Syria's problem must be Syrian-led, Syrian-owned. Funding rebels is NOT cool.

One thing I know for sure is that we should stay the heck out of it. Its not at all in the national security interest of the US one way or another to get involved.

I agree that Erdogan getting involved there might have been overstretching his hand and offered his adversaries the chance to hammer him on not putting Turkey first, second, or third.

Regarding Assad, I think the man is a horrible human being and I wish the Syrians the best in removing that menace- but without anyone elses involvement at all. The reason Syria is in trouble is that the Alawite minority secured a strangle hold on governance and massacred sunnis wholesale in the 70s and 80s.

In the end, my wish for these people is to once again leave eachother alone and understand the other is not going away. Sunnis need to offer Alawits a protected status and not bother them and vice versa. There are too many human beings involved to think that sunnis can extinguish shiites or vice versa.

Yes, Alawite theology is extremely questionable when it comes to any analysis, even by main stream shiite standards - but nonetheless they are there and are not going anywhere.

These regions need to understand that they are being manipulated to weaken eachother for the gain of others.

Erdogan should have offered to broker some compromise that would strengthen all the parties.

As as Turk he has a sort of independent status and as the last bastion of the Caliphate - Turks have a special place in the hearts of many. I think someone like him needs to talk to all these leaders and tell them that they can be collectively richer and more powerful than they ever dreamed instead of fighting like divided monkies. Following this, just as Ahmad Shah Abdali proposed these theologians should reconcile and recognize that they will let bygones be bygones for the sake of the greater good.

[Badlun]

Turkey is a model state for me being majority Muslim but secular. All Muslim countries may follow Turkey as an example.

Religion should be limited to mosque, individual and family while state should be run by professional politicians and statesmen not by pandits, clregy, mullas, Taliban and other religious specialists.

The present protests against the religious tendencies and enactment of religious laws by the current government is quite understandable and it would be rare if such protests did not happen.

I am following the news like elections where my favorite political party is winning elections. May the protesters prevail and Turkey remain true to the ideals to Kamal Ata Turk, the founder of the modern Turkey who kicked the obscurantist caliphate and gave Turkey the status it has today in the comity of nations.

[Admin Khan]

Turkey is a model state for me being majority Muslim but secular. All Muslim countries may follow Turkey as an example.

Religion should be limited to mosque, individual and family while state should be run by professional politicians and statesmen not by pandits, clregy, mullas, Taliban and other religious specialists.

The present protests against the religious tendencies and enactment of religious laws by the current government is quite understandable and it would be rare if such protests did not happen.

I am following the news like elections where my favorite political party is winning elections. May the protesters prevail and Turkey remain true to the ideals to Kamal Ata Turk, the founder of the modern Turkey who kicked the obscurantist caliphate and gave Turkey the status it has today in the comity of nations.

Islam is not just a religion, it is a way of life -- Do you recognize that?

[Badlun]

Islam is not just a religion, it is a way of life -- Do you recognize that?

Is Islam a religion only or a way of life plus a religion or only a way of life?

And what is your definition of religion and way of life?

Is Islam the only way of life or there is another system or way of life parallel or similar or rival to Islam?

Is Islam the only thing Muslim requires to lead a successful life or there is some other thing a non Islam which also Muslims should have to be happy, successful and prosperous?

[Admin Khan]

Is Islam a religion only or a way of life plus a religion or only a way of life?

And what is your definition of religion and way of life?

Is Islam the only way of life or there is another system or way of life parallel or similar or rival to Islam?

Is Islam the only thing Muslim requires to lead a successful life or there is some other thing a non Islam which also Muslims should have to be happy, successful and prosperous?

Answer my question first. You don't answer a question with more questions mashra.

[Badlun]

kashra if you are reading some of my posts you should have got an idea of my thoughts that I do not recognize Islam to be a complete way of life. I do recognize Islam to be a complete religion but not a complete way of life. Islam fully guide us on beliefs, worship and ethics but not beyond that.

[ډګروال]

what is kashra?

[DaZahroJaam.]

kashra if you are reading some of my posts you should have got an idea of my thoughts that I do not recognize Islam to be a complete way of life. I do recognize Islam to be a complete religion but not a complete way of life. Islam fully guide us on beliefs, worship and ethics but not beyond that.

you can't be believing in something if you don't live by it. how do you define religion?? what does religion mean to you??