Pakistan-born parents guilty of murdering ‘westernised’ British daughter

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Well, if you see intermingling of boys and girls as an important factor for their bright future and so that they could make mature decisions regarding their marital life, I think this is not true as we have seen the ratio of divorce in the western societies is so high though intermingling of girls and boys is a normal thing and after they get to know much about each other, then there should be no question of divorce.
Marital life totally depends on compromise, love, trust and patience.
marriage based on wishes never succeeds.

But the ratio of divorce is very high even amongst Muslims who didn't meet their spouses amongst their peers. So how do you explain that?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

No dear, you are wrong. Respect for elders, listening to elders and respecting their decisions are the beautiful values of the Pashtun society. Why do you want to ruin our society by westernizing them by bring the so called freedom of speech and wish.
The west has ruined its family system and its society by giving a free hand to their children and at the end they regret when they are sent to old homes.
Dear there is a difference between us and these westerners. Why do you want to eliminate this difference ? Why do you want to take us to the same level ?
We being Pashtuns should be proud on our values and traditions.
Thank you

Because Free expression , free thinking and freedom of choice; help people fulfill their true potential. rather than force people to do things they don't want to do or maybe are not even capable of doing or even prevent people from doing something they're capable of doing.

Many pashtun values are WRONG even from Islamic Standpoint, and more over the Beauty of the Values are not what makes it good, it must be based on the Truth of the Values.

In Many Pashtun values, daughters are given to strangers in badal or even in losing gambling. How will these women be able to fight back unless they can express themselves freely and openly?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

So westerns who come to the muslim world,should also adopt muslim culture and attitued,otherwise should be seperated or kicked out of society.....yeah right approach.

actually I agree with this .....if Westerners want us to adopt their customs ....they must also adopt OUR customs and should not try to encourage their values,

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Osho I am confused by your argument

If you're saying Muslims/Pashtuns/whoever else who come to live in Western societies are now obligated to adopt the prevailing culture or else they should stay in their own countries

then why are you also encouraging the Customs and values that are prevailing Western culture to be propagated in Eastern society. Why should western customs and values take priority even in Muslim societies?

If they can'r even have their own values and customs in their own lands, where can they have it? or are you really trying to say you' want The values and customs to be destroyed and replaced by Western cultural values?

[Khostai]

I think the killing teenagers is a response to losing their way of life

so why don't they kill them self then?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

so why don't they kill them self then?

Maybe they think they can start clean with new children.

[Toramana]

Because Free expression , free thinking and freedom of choice; help people fulfill their true potential. rather than force people to do things they don't want to do or maybe are not even capable of doing or even prevent people from doing something they're capable of doing.

Many pashtun values are WRONG even from Islamic Standpoint, and more over the Beauty of the Values are not what makes it good, it must be based on the Truth of the Values.

In Many Pashtun values, daughters are given to strangers in badal or even in losing gambling. How will these women be able to fight back unless they can express themselves freely and openly?

True---Why raise Pashtunwali an archaic value system of the bygone tribal ages out of step with the standards of today's age to a divinely level ? Over for it. Today is the age of knowledge, skill, civility, urbanity, and statehood. Enough with Pashtun and Pashtunwali, the two delusions.

[Khostai]

True---Why raise Pashtunwali an archaic value system of the bygone tribal ages out of step with the standards of today's age to a divinely level ? Over for it. Today is the age of knowledge, skill, civility, urbanity, and statehood. Enough with Pashtun that Pashtunwali that delusion.

Yes, its culture not religion, culture changes time by time, if it don't change than it creats big problems like this.

[Khostai]

Maybe they think they can start clean with new children.

They are old, so no new children. And peopel like them, must never have children to begin whith.

[khushal]

In Many Pashtun values, daughters are given to strangers in badal or even in losing gambling. ?

This is non sense. Where is your proof.



About the thread.
This is the result of culture shock, the parents grew up in one set of values and the children are growing up in another set of values, so they clash and it gets violent sometimes. I could never understand how a parent could kill their own child, but I think this could be labeled as an altruistic filicide where the parent kills the child because they perceive it to be in the childs best interest or it could be the unwanted child filicide where the parent perceive the child to be a hindrance(also some people consider one of the reasons people abort unwanted children becaue the child is perceived as hindrance). The community leadership and support groups should address this by educating the parents that it is not in the child nor their own best interest by going to the extreme.

These things are not unique to muslims or middle eastern societies. They happen almost every where. Here is a good study about it.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2922347/

One of the most influential classifications of child murder was created in 1969 by Phillip Resnick.9 He reviewed 131 cases of filicide committed by both men and women that were discussed in psychiatric literature dating from 1751 to 1967. He developed five categories to account for the motives driving parents to kill their children:
1.
Altruistic filicide—The parent kills the child because it is perceived to be in the best interest of the child.
A. Acts associated with parental suicidal ideation—The parent may believe that the world is too cruel to leave the child behind after his or her death.
B. Acts meant to relieve the suffering of the child—The child has a disability, either real or imagined, that the parent finds intolerable.

2.
Acutely psychotic filicide—The parent, responding to psychosis, kills the child with no other rational motive. This category may also include incidents that occur secondary to automatisms related to seizures or activities taking place in a post-ictal state.
3.
Unwanted child filicide—The parent kills the child, who is regarded as a hindrance. This category also includes parents who benefit from the death of the child in some way (e.g., inheriting insurance money, marrying a partner who does not want step-children).
4.
Accidental filicide—The parent unintentionally kills the child as a result of abuse. This category includes the rarely occurring Munchausen syndrome by proxy.
5.
Spouse revenge filicide—The parent kills the child as a means of exacting revenge upon the spouse, perhaps secondary to infidelity or abandonment.

Here is a case of spouse revenge filicide that just happened. It is very sad.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/12...ide-counts-in/
Dad accused of killing 3 daughters called mom and said, ‘You can come home now because I killed the kids,’ she says

[Friend]

And since is when is our way of live is killing teenagers who don't listen to there parents?

Unfortunately you don't know anything about Afghanistan and Pakhtunkhwa. You better go and live there.

[Friend]

But the ratio of divorce is very high even amongst Muslims who didn't meet their spouses amongst their peers. So how do you explain that?

May be in one or two countries but I am talking as a whole. The Muslim societies have not accepted it the way it has been accepted in the west.

[Friend]

Because Free expression , free thinking and freedom of choice; help people fulfill their true potential. rather than force people to do things they don't want to do or maybe are not even capable of doing or even prevent people from doing something they're capable of doing.

Many pashtun values are WRONG even from Islamic Standpoint, and more over the Beauty of the Values are not what makes it good, it must be based on the Truth of the Values.

In Many Pashtun values, daughters are given to strangers in badal or even in losing gambling. How will these women be able to fight back unless they can express themselves freely and openly?

This is just a sweet talk. The reality is totally opposite to what you say. You want to take use Muslims and Pashtuns at the same level with the westerners.
Intermingling no problem, hijab no problem, shorts no problem, abortion no problem, western way of life no problem, foreign invasion no problem, secularism no problem. Then what difference remains between us and them ?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

This is just a sweet talk. The reality is totally opposite to what you say. You want to take use Muslims and Pashtuns at the same level with the westerners.
Intermingling no problem, hijab no problem, shorts no problem, abortion no problem, western way of life no problem, foreign invasion no problem, secularism no problem. Then what difference remains between us and them ?

Sweet talk or not the problem is very real that without free and open expression; problems which exist in the society end up becoming ignored because the victims of these crimes have little outlet and recourse to speak.

Women being traded in badal or gambling debts is REAL in Pashtun society; But that is just ONE example. if Women had their voices heard how would stuff like this be allowed? The answer it wouldn't.

Sometimes we need to accept some negatives to do greater positives;


Yes intermingling no problem; Muhammad(saw) intermingled and mixed with women, 'Aisha(ra) mixed and intermingled with me, Fatima(ra) intermingled with men in the market, Khadija(ra) intermingled with men and did business. How come all of the Salaf Al-Salihieen (ra) ntermingled with each other and had no problem but for Pashtuns its a problem? Pick one you want to be Muslim or you want to be a Jahil?

Yes Abortion, no problem, in Islam the hadith says a soul does not enter the body before 120 days, Before the soul enters it is not even a human being or even an animal. A Human beings and animals have souls.

Yes shorts; How a woman dresses is between Allah(swt) and her, Only she gets the sin, not you or anyone else, there is NOT ONE SINGLE example that Nabi(saw) tried to punish women for wearing open clothing. All you're allowed to do is PREACH to her , NOTHING else.

Western way of life? The things you consider Western are actually from Islam. Everything from Intermingling of sexes to women having jobs and being community leaders, to women singing and dancing in the open were ALL DONE by the Early Muslim community.

Secularism; In actuality you are promoting secularism, because according to Islam anything not from Ordinance of God is secular. All of your ideas are contradictions to the Historical Evidence of the Life of Nabi(saw) and the Sahaba Ajkram(ra). So actually you are secular because you want to impose rules not from Islam.

what remains different? The goal of Islam is not to be different, The Goal of Islam is TRUTH (HAQ), Anything that is in line with TRUTH we agree with, everything against it we disagree with. Most of your ideas are just remains of Hindu culture that existed before Islam and now you're mixing it with Islam

[RevolutionThroughReason]

May be in one or two countries but I am talking as a whole. The Muslim societies have not accepted it the way it has been accepted in the west.

No all over, divorce is high and places where it isn't high it's because women are forced to stay in marriage by threats.