Defiant Mali Islamists pursue wrecking of Timbuktu

[randolph85]

http://news.yahoo.com/defiant-mali-islamists-pursue-wrecking-timbuktu-113255438.html

BAMAKO (Reuters) - Al Qaeda-linked Islamists in Timbuktu broke down the door to a 15th century mosque on Monday that locals believed had to stay shut until the end of the world, defying international calls to halt the destruction of holy sites in the UNESCO-listed city.
In a third day of attacks on historic and religious landmarks that UNESCO has called "wanton destruction", the Islamists targeted the ancient Sidi Yahya mosque as they tried to erase traces of what they regard as un-Islamic idolatry.
"In legend, it is said that the main gate of Sidi Yahya mosque will not be opened until the last day (of the world)," Alpha Abdoulahi, the town imam, told Reuters by telephone.
Yet eight Islamist fighters had smashed down the door to the mosque early on Monday, saying they wanted to "destroy the mystery" of the ancient entrance, he said.
"They offered me 50,000 CFA ($100) for repairs but I refused to take the money, saying that what they did is irreparable."


Islamists of the Ansar Dine group say the centuries-old shrines of the local Sufi version of Islam in Timbuktu are idolatrous. They have so far destroyed at least eight of 16 listed mausoleums in the city, together with a number of tombs.
Ansar Dine and well-armed allies, including al Qaeda splinter group MUJWA, have hijacked a separatist uprising by local Tuareg MNLA rebels and now control two-thirds of Mali's desert north, territory that includes the regions of Gao, Kidal and Timbuktu.
The size of the area under their control is bigger than France, heightening fears that Mali will become a jihadist haven.
GOVERNMENT POWERLESS TO HALT ATTACKS
Sufi shrines have been attacked by hardline Salafists in Egypt and Libya in the past year. The attacks also recall the 2001 dynamiting by the Taliban of two 6th-century statues of Buddha carved into a cliff in Bamiyan in central Afghanistan.
Mali's government in the capital Bamako some 1,000 km (630 miles) south has condemned the attacks, but is powerless to halt them after its army was routed by rebels in April. It is still struggling to bolster a return to civilian rule after a March 22 coup that emboldened the rebel uprising further north.


UNESCO Director-General Irina Bokova and former colonial power France appealed on Saturday for a halt to the attacks.
The U.N. body tries to protect places around the world it classifies as world heritage sites, arguing they are of special cultural or physical significance and should therefore be preserved for posterity.
Located on an old Saharan trading route that saw salt from the Arab north exchanged for gold and slaves from black Africa to the south, Timbuktu blossomed in the 16th century as an Islamic seat of learning, home to priests, scribes and jurists.
In recent years, Mali had sought to create a desert tourism industry around Timbuktu. But even before April's rebellion many tourists were being discouraged by a spate of kidnappings of Westerners in the region claimed by al Qaeda-linked groups.

[Hakim Khan Urgonai]

"Madrase de kri bombard, `alimaan di kri bombard,
Bya da tsa rang Musalmaan di chi Qur`an di kri bombard?"

- Pashto nasheed, ironically posted on Youtube by Soldat_Amir.

[Afghanistan2010]

MashaAllah,

may Allah bless their hands destroying mysteries and mythes which were upheld by locals,that the door of a certain mosque will open before qiyamat (who told them this ?) they opended it hahahahah , and told them to close it and repair it.

MashaAllah.

[abassinafghan]

pradai , why do you not burn down ahmad shah babas tomb ? i mean people also go to pray there ?

i think your american wahabi friends are more willing to help you , when they drinked their bubble tea in mekkas starbucks and ate their hamburgers at macdonalds in medina .

* i didnt used the prefix shariffa ,with intention , the shirk and woreship of capitalism done in the cities of mekkah and medina , dont apply to the holy places .

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

now randolph supports anti Mali propaganda as well.

UNESCO or palasco has no right to tell peopel what to do.
oh yeah offcourse "alqaeda linked" looks like they are linking everyone now.

Randolph like his other fellow "Americans" considers any Islamic movement as a threat.

[Afghanistan2010]

pradai , why do you not burn down ahmad shah babas tomb ? i mean people also go to pray there ?

i think your american wahabi friends are more willing to help you , when they drinked their bubble tea in mekkas starbucks and ate their hamburgers at macdonalds in medina .

* i didnt used the prefix shariffa ,with intention , the shirk and woreship of capitalism done in the cities of mekkah and medina , dont apply to the holy places .

Saudi state is an state installed by the disbelieving people,its government works not under the laws of Shariah,it has its own shariah implemented with according to the agreement with the americans.

It is a huge terrorism what they have done to the two holy cities regarding the commercial and materialistism.


Timbuktu is my favourite place in Africa,i was aware of the doings there,and non of any mosques were destroyed or harmed,there were unislamic rituals and rites and believes like that of the Mosque,they tried to open the eyes for people,to look into the future and strive for their live.

As the Prophet (pbuh) have told them : When you pray,pray to Allah and when you ask,Ask Allah (to Ibn Abbas,while he was riding with him on a horse or camel).

[randolph85]

lol @ these wahabbis being an islamic movement and the idiots that support them.

"forget social programs that help the poor and increase our standing with the population, lets destroy some shrines!!"

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

lol @ these wahabbis being an islamic movement and the idiots that support them.

"forget social programs that help the poor and increase our standing with the population, lets destroy some shrines!!"

Didn't Rasool Allah sal allahu alayhi wasalam order Ali ibn Abi Talib radiallahu anhu to level all graves and demolish all tombs when he entered Madina? Or did he tell him to give people welfare and unemployment benefits.


Stop being a socialist wimp.

The main objective of any Islamic movement is to fight shirk. But you wouldn't know that of course since you know nothing about Islam.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Anyone who is not happy when shirk is stopped is probably a mushrik. Only a mushrik would be displeased when places where other than Allah is worshiped are demolished.

[KGODB]

why dont they simply tell the people they are forbidden from praying at these sites?>

Why do they punish inanimate objects, as opposed to living creatures capable of changing their mind and learning?

Why must Islamic heritage and cultural sites be destroyed leaving Muslims uneducated and stupid and unaware of their great histories, leaving the gap open for Western propaganda to fill their brains?

Verily, the Salafis are the greatest enemies of Islam and nothing but the firing squad is permissable for them

[Karachi]

why dont they simply tell the people they are forbidden from praying at these sites?>

Why do they punish inanimate objects, as opposed to living creatures capable of changing their mind and learning?

Why must Islamic heritage and cultural sites be destroyed leaving Muslims uneducated and stupid and unaware of their great histories, leaving the gap open for Western propaganda to fill their brains?

Verily, the Salafis are the greatest enemies of Islam and nothing but the firing squad is permissable for them

they have no brains, you should see what they have done to islamic historical sites in saudi.

They are probably going to build modern malls and 5 star hotels in Mali, just like they have done in Makkah

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

why dont they simply tell the people they are forbidden from praying at these sites?>

Why? Because The Prophet Muhammad sal allahu alayhi wasalam had Ali ibn Abi Talib radiallahu anhu demolish shrines when he took control over Madina.

You see, fighting evil ( in this case polytheism) must be done with force when it is necessary and when it is possible. If have the power to use force to fight it, then you should do it. But if you dont have the force, lets say you live in a Kafir country like somewhere in Europe, you cant go there and blow up a Church because people worship false deities their. All you can do is preach and teach people Tawhid.

But in an Islamic country where Muslims have the power, there you as a person in authority, if you see that Muslims deviate and associate partners with Allah in worship, then you can fight it and demolish it.

[KGODB]

Why? Because The Prophet Muhammad sal allahu alayhi wasalam had Ali ibn Abi Talib radiallahu anhu demolish shrines when he took control over Madina.

You see, fighting evil ( in this case polytheism) must be done with force when it is necessary and when it is possible. If have the power to use force to fight it, then you should do it. But if you dont have the force, lets say you live in a Kafir country like somewhere in Europe, you cant go there and blow up a Church because people worship false deities their. All you can do is preach and teach people Tawhid.

But in an Islamic country where Muslims have the power, there you as a person in authority, if you see that Muslims deviate and associate partners with Allah in worship, then you can fight it and demolish it.

Yes but the people of Madina were outright Kufars, who prayed to these shrines as conduits for Pagan worship.

These shrines and monuments are Islamic, they honour great men of Islam who have contributed to our din and our community. If a few people err in their ways, they should be taught this is not right. Even those that err, NEVER ASSOCIATE THE PIRS WITH ALLAH, they simply ask the Pirs to intercede on their behalf with Allah

Wrong? Possibly, but not to be compared to the Prophets destruction of the shrines of Madina. Such a drastic action was necessary as all of Arabia was Pagan, and such actions were necessary to cleanse the land of this practise

In addition, despite the lack of Buddhists in Afghanistan for thousands of years, the Buddhas were still destroyed.

Salafiya are a conspiracy against Islam to destroy indigineous cultures, to ruin Islams name, and to keep the people stupid and in the dark, unaware of great Islamic events and men, thus leaving the people succeptible to shirk and kufr

Verily Allah has showed us what actions are required to deal with these Salafis, who respect nothing.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Yes but the people of Madina were outright Kufars, who prayed to these shrines as conduits for Pagan worship.

No. A substantial part of the Khasraj and Al Ows tribe were already Muslims and a large group of Muslims from Makkah migrated to Madina before Rasool Allah sal allahu alayhi wasalam. Plus there were the three Jewish tribes.

So no, you are wrong. Madina was not outright kufars.

These shrines and monuments are Islamic,

How can they be Islamic monuments when people seek help via graves? Doesn't Allah specifically prohibit this in Quran on numerous verses?

Hoe can they be Islamic monuments when in Islam it is prohibited to build a grave tall above the ground? The Shariah specifically dictates that no grave should be built like a tomb.

they honour great men of Islam who have contributed to our din and our community.

Honouring people in Islam is not by making their graves like idols. You honour them by learning about their teachings and passing through the knowledge.

This type of honouring you are talking about, does this have any foundation in Quran and Sunnah? Why is it that this tradition of building shrines and attributing this to Islam lacks any proof or reasoning from Quran & Sunnah? Yet, on the contrary, there are dozens of Quranic verses that clearly prohibit that what is practices around these shrines?

If a few people err in their ways, they should be taught this is not right.

Well, demolishing shrines and places where other than Allah is revered and worshipped might sound "not right" to you. But I think you should first study the Islamic ruling regarding building of shrines and asking from the dead, or attributing divine qualities to the dead in the light of Quran and Sunnah.

Once you have learned this, I dont think that you would think that this is "not right" any longer.

Even those that err, NEVER ASSOCIATE THE PIRS WITH ALLAH, they simply ask the Pirs to intercede on their behalf with Allah

Intercession is through good deeds. Preform good deeds like your daily prescribed obligatory acts of worship, your voluntary acts of worship, charity etc. And when you do that, ask Allah and say that you have preformed these prescribed and obligatory acts of worship and voluntary acts of worship because you desire to have your prayers to be accepted, your sins to be forgiven and anything other that you want which is lawful in Islam.

Asking the dead is not allowed in Islam. It is an act of shirk.

Such a drastic action was necessary as all of Arabia was Pagan, and such actions were necessary to cleanse the land of this practise

I am sorry. But I dont need your personal opinion or your own philosophy. If you are going to issue fatwas on what is wrong and what is right, you need to be able to back it up with proofs from quran and sunnah or reliable jurisprudence. In Islam, it is prohibited for people like you and me, to issue fatwas and talk about our own personal opinions. We are not scholars and therefore we shouldn't judge about things we have no proof of.

In addition, despite the lack of Buddhists in Afghanistan for thousands of years, the Buddhas were still destroyed.

Alhamdulilah. They should do that everywhere.

[Karachi]

^ do you agree with the saud salafis destroying islamic heritage in Makkah and then building luxury malls, luxury hotels, starbucks etc.... over them?