Old and new mingle in Afghan Jirga

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

MWMN, If you don't mind me asking.

What have you done for your country and people?

Your question is irrelevant to the discussion.

We are not talking about who has done what. We are talking about why Sangar is so insisting on the Taliban being the right thing when he can't put his money where his mouth is and follow in their ranks.

I don't support the US of A.

I don't need to tell you what I have or have not done for my country. I am not asking this of Sangar. I am just trying to show him how twisted his logic is.

[شمله ور خراساني]

How long did it take you to think that over?

Why are you still living in their country? You don't need to be a "rambo" to protest an invasion. Leave their country. Simple.

You are living in a country whose soldiers are killing your Taliban left, right and center. What on earth are you still doing there?

Be a man and do the right thing: leave. Go and live in a Muslim country or go and fight in the ranks of the Taliban.

My religion does not obligate me to take up arms against anyone. Because Jihad is not fard ayn. It is mustahab.

And jihad is faught by the pen, by the keyboard, by mouth and also by arms.

Currently I have a covenant of security with this society. Therefore I am not allowed to cause mischief here.

Instead of being an angry frustrated person on this forum, you should go and study the Shari'i ruling of when Jihad is faught and what the rulings are upon the individual. Scholars of Islam have explained what is necessary action for Muslims to take who live under circumstances I live in. And they make sense.

Just look at how much harm was caused when Muslims blew up buses in London. We should use our wisdom and act in accordance with shariah and not act like vigilantes and rambos. That will only harm us in the future.

Shari'ah provides us answers to deal with these delicate matters wisely.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Even Mullah Omar has not condoned attacks and acts of terrorism in America or Europe. So why should be follow the example of Al qaeda and go against the rulings of our Amir ul Momineen?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

My religion does not obligate me to take up arms against anyone. Because Jihad is not fard ayn. It is mustahab.

And jihad is faught by the pen, by the keyboard, by mouth and also by arms.

Currently I have a covenant of security with this society. Therefore I am not allowed to cause mischief here.

Instead of being an angry frustrated person on this forum, you should go and study the Shari'i ruling of when Jihad is faught and what the rulings are upon the individual. Scholars of Islam have explained what is necessary action for Muslims to take who live under circumstances I live in. And they make sense.

Just look at how much harm was caused when Muslims blew up buses in London. We should use our wisdom and act in accordance with shariah and not act like vigilantes and rambos. That will only harm us in the future.

Shari'ah provides us answers to deal with these delicate matters wisely.

I agree with your post in full.

However, I am pretty sure that you are afraid to tell the truth. You don't want to get kicked out of Holland.

Also, please don't your ever use that jihad is not fard on you when you are clearly preaching what the Taliban are doing is great. Allah says don't say that which you do not do. This is hypocrisy at its best.


I will show you why.

My concern with you is that the Dutch are killing the Taliban. You are calling the NA kafir because they are killing the innocent. You are saying that the Taliban did good. The Dutch are killing your brothers, the Talibans. And even more Muslims.They have invaded your country, an Islamic country.

Yet, yet, you live in their country because it is peaceful and are cheering on your Taliban brother.

Do you see the hypocrisy in your thinking and lack of actions.

Does not Islam say that you should want for your brother what you want for yourself?

Either you should sponsor all of your Taliban brothers to Holland or you should stop preaching that the Taliban are doing good or you should go and join your Taliban brothers to fight evil.

I get amazed more and more when I read your post.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Sure whatever. You appear to have knowledge of the unseen.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

I am pretty sure I have hit a nerve. You know it's true. You are just giving lip service. You would never go to Afghanistan to fight the way you support the Taliban.

This has nothing to do with having knowledge of the unseen. I am going from your posts.

Let us put it this way: you have been brainwashed.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Yes. You definately struck a nerve. I am becoming very sleepy now.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

That did not make sense, well then again, a lot of things with you don't make sense.

I see all of a sudden the lion in you has calmed down.

I know that you want to live peacefully in Holland.

Smart of you to cool the lion.

[AfghanSoulja]

Jirga wants Karzai to go ahead with his reintegration of the taliban back into government..Ironically the two of the strongest positions in the government i.e intel chief and were vacated right after the jirga..The two people who left were extremely against the taliban and pakistan and non-pashtun..The MP's are pissed, the American's are weary..the fate of the people it seems is sealed once more

[Afghan_Soldier]

AfghanSoulja,

Brother, I slightly differ and am inclined to a differnt hypothesis. Integration of Taliban by no mean would be giving them high positions of power or rule the country. Only those who would accept the constitution of Afghanistan and swear their allegiance to Afghanistan would be re-integrated and in some cases and offered govt. position which would be contingent on certain factors i.e. who is the Talib, where is he from, how many people follow him, why is he fighting, and above all can he be part of the solution.... so there is a criteria. Overall, I am not pessimistic. Change of appraoch and strategy was warranted.

[AfghanSoulja]

They were tajik and henious criminals i know, but they weren't removed for being against pashtuns they were removed to pave way for the reintegration of the taliban..You have to realize taliban would never come back unless they have people they want in these positions ..So pashtuns "will" fill these positions but they wont do so to promote pashtuns...Pashtuns are being taken for another ride by the jihadis

[Afghan_Soldier]

Atmar was Pashtun and Momand from Laghman, and from the prominent "Atmar" or "Atmarkhel" family. Saleh was a former aid of Ahmed Shah Massoud. He himself was not a bad person from what I know, but the people surround him were rough towards Pashtuns or thsoe suspected of Taliban. He hated Pakistan, which isn't a bad thing.

[Afghan_Soldier]

I personally know Atmar and his family. Actually they are staunch Pashtuns. A very educated family, there are few scholars in that family. I don't think Saleh personally was anti-Paashtun or anything like that, from what I heard he himself was a patriotic Afghan and a smart person. Those Pnajsheris who he could trust were abit... not too friendly towards suspected Taliban. This is a strategic and a decision made probably in a reinvigorated appraoch towards insurgency and conflict.

[AfghanSoulja]

i doubt karzai will make any decisions keeping national interests in mind..he is doing everything just so he can keep hanging on to his seat for as long as he can..this bodes well for pashtuns since he will have to ally himself more closely with the majority..As far as integration of taliban is concerned, it will be decided on their terms most probably since they have the jirga to back themselves

Anyways for now its all too hypothetical, what im looking at is the interests of the parties involved and so far it just seems to be the same old quest for power.

[Afghan_Soldier]

I doubt it is quite straight forward as you have asserted. The decision, far from being, I doubt was solely Karzai's. It was his aids and cabinet and his advisers and policy makers. lol Presidents don't just make decisions with a flick.

On the other hand, I have strong reasons to believe what I do. I will emphasise another time.