Suicide attack targets foreign troops in Kabul

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Technological development and societal evolution go hand-in-hand with the social and administrative structures of a society reflecting the state of its technological development. The two things are not separate. The fatalists that believe death and life are from God would not like a modern hospital in the midset of their society---and are highly unlikely to be able to fly spacecrafts or embark on the aggrandized genome mapping projects for their belief of such endeavours to be the God's realm.

Your seem to have a kind of permanent disability to comprehend that we are not living in medieval age but rather are a part of a global system which is affecting us on daily basis not leaving us any option to live in insulation---and that lagging behind in technological development or efficiency of societal structures and system of administration and governance is putting us at a dis-advantaged position vis-a-vis the rest of the world nations.


The very concept of technological development nullifies your argument of starting from infancy. If we all nations of the world were living in medieval ages at the same level of technologcal and social development, your retrogressive "vision" could make perfect sense and could be materialized---But we know that the level of technological development we are witnessing today is putting immense pressure on individuals as well as societies to catch up with others rapidly in terms of societal and technological development to be able to compete and survive witth diginity.


This same reason made you immigrate to a post-modern state i.e., US and take a quantum leap in your own life in the sense of personal development, achievement, and gains. Had you not been pressured/motivated by the dynamics and compulsions of modern life, you could have stayed in the desoluteness of your village at Helmand or Chaman, study khulasa and monia, become a Mullah, and live like a parasite on alms from others. The same pressure brought about by technology is affecting every other member of society --That is why there is a need for rapid modernization of our society.

No modern state or society as I mentioned before ever reverted to a previous state of the stone age infancy as you argue and then progress in finite time to a more advanced state---or progress from its current state gradually through a stadard evolutionary path. All societies like to skip intermediate phases to become rapidly modernized. We know, humans draw from each other experiences when it comes to societal change and transformation and don't re-invent the wheel.

As for Pakistani donkey, Mr Barakzai of Afghan Royal Parentage, this donkey cart is still better than the Wahabi heaven you and your Mullah Omar want to build in Kanadahar.

There is an easy rebuttal to this statement. You've made an unvalidated statement, regarding technological prowess and societal progress being mandatory prereqs of one another. In fact, Dubai and some of the Arab nations prove this is not necessarily true. Retards with ipads are still retards nonetheless. Furthermore, Chinese society also has different views on what constitutes just ends and yet technological prowess persists.

You also make a series of unvalidated assumptions in regard to what zealots want and dont want. If, say we know a zealot.. lets call him Mr. Ahmad Ahmadzai... were given the choice of a weaponry.. I am quiet sure he would prefer the M16 semi automatic machine gun to the sword.

As a practical example of where you are wrong, one of the reasons why the Muslim Brotherhood has a such a strong and staunch underground following in Egypt for example is by providing healthcare services and the like:

http://terrorism.about.com/od/politi...imBrothers.htm

"A Powerful Social Welfare Organization: The Muslim Brotherhood has always provided social welfare to poor Egyptians, from health care to books and subsidies for university students."

Furthermore, you make a series of errors in terms of assumptions. Even if we accept your premise that Technology advancement leads to societal advancement you leave a blank between how the rural populace and the average Afghan acquires said technology.

Regarding the movement from Chaman and Kandahar Province to America, you missed the point entirely and your construct of the argument if flawed. The move was made as autonomous person with the full capability to move anywhere in the world. There was no one holding a gun to my head.

By your design, the populace submits to an organization that has no religious or ideological semblance to the grassroots --> the organization has a history of depriving native peoples of their established lands and rights (e.g. Americans outlawed Cherokee language for generations nearly driving it into extinction) --> The organization has no proven record of resuscitating a nation that did not already have an infrastructure ---> Said organization has its own motives and there is no proof that either they or the other great game players want a strong autonomous Afghanistan.

But you are attempting to conflate this model with the model Ahmad Shah had already set into play which was:

Society reaps independence --> Society progresses ---> technological development ensues in tow.

Or the model George Washington and his colleagues implemented:

Society reaches independence ---> society progresses --> technological prowess ensues in tow.

Neither of these paradigms matches yours which is simply:

Accept that an empire is perched in your backyard ---> think you are smart enough to outsmart them and let them build up your country --> When you are a power house, kick them out.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Technological development and societal evolution go hand-in-hand with the social and administrative structures of a society reflecting the state of its technological development. The two things are not separate. The fatalists that believe death and life are from God would not like a modern hospital in the midset of their society---and are highly unlikely to be able to fly spacecrafts or embark on the aggrandized genome mapping projects for their belief of such endeavours to be the God's realm.

Your seem to have a kind of permanent disability to comprehend that we are not living in medieval age but rather are a part of a global system which is affecting us on daily basis not leaving us any option to live in insulation---and that lagging behind in technological development or efficiency of societal structures and system of administration and governance is putting us at a dis-advantaged position vis-a-vis the rest of the world nations.


The very concept of technological development nullifies your argument of starting from infancy. If we all nations of the world were living in medieval ages at the same level of technologcal and social development, your retrogressive "vision" could make perfect sense and could be materialized---But we know that the level of technological development we are witnessing today is putting immense pressure on individuals as well as societies to catch up with others rapidly in terms of societal and technological development to be able to compete and survive witth diginity.


This same reason made you immigrate to a post-modern state i.e., US and take a quantum leap in your own life in the sense of personal development, achievement, and gains. Had you not been pressured/motivated by the dynamics and compulsions of modern life, you could have stayed in the desoluteness of your village at Helmand or Chaman, study khulasa and monia, become a Mullah, and live like a parasite on alms from others. The same pressure brought about by technology is affecting every other member of society --That is why there is a need for rapid modernization of our society.

No modern state or society as I mentioned before ever reverted to a previous state of the stone age infancy as you argue and then progress in finite time to a more advanced state---or progress from its current state gradually through a stadard evolutionary path. All societies like to skip intermediate phases to become rapidly modernized. We know, humans draw from each other experiences when it comes to societal change and transformation and don't re-invent the wheel.

As for Pakistani donkey, Mr Barakzai of Afghan Royal Parentage, this donkey cart is still better than the Wahabi heaven you and your Mullah Omar want to build in Kanadahar.

By the way, are you sure you want to stand by that commentary regarding the Pakistani democratic system? I wouldnt be too willing to say that it is functional comrade.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Finally, even if we accept the donkey cart is better argument you make, you still prove my point for me.

For instance, if we accept that democratization has taken the NWFP forward from where it would be under the Khanate system or under Mullahthope then you must concede a few points.

What that essentially means is that your proposed donkey cart model is as follows:
1. British rule the roost ---> 2. Brits driven out ---> 3. A semi autonomous Pashtun society has been, according to you, set up in the NWFP. 4. I have myself noted in my travels through the region that folks are generally content with the status quo and their party system (PPP vs ANP vs Religious Parties) ---> 5. No overt obvious presence existed prior to 2001 in terms of no naval bases on Pakistani soil and no drone bases ---> 6. Society progressed to the point where women constitute 50% of the medical school populace in Khybar medical and are gaining ground in engineering schools ---> 7. War on terror occurs and American bases and occupation now progresses in NWFP ---> 8. The blow back effect ensues and now, more than ever, the NWFP has taken steps backwards in terms of modernization.

This is a rather clear contrast with Afghanistan

1. Zahir Shah's rule (generally despite steps back from Amanullah's reforms Zahir Shah's government still has the veneer of legitimacy as no Soviet or American bases yet exist) ---> Modernization progresses and women and the like are in school (of course in teh back ground the King is still rather inept) ---> Progress interrupt by Western interventionalism in the form of both Soviet and American intervention and occupation.

So instead of preferring at least the donkey cart for your Afghan brethren, you wish to impose simply the donkey or, worse, the cart with a dead donkey onto them.

[ScimitarXEdge]

How are Taliban Beghairot when they have been fighting NATO now for 10 years? NATO has women soldiers, but the Taliban can't have any?


Beghairot is the one who can't recognize a legitimate Jihad when it's in front of their face.

Oh by legitimate, am talking about the common Afghan who dislikes NATO tanks roaming through their districts.

so by Using that Logic, because members of NATO soldiers allow random guys to fornicate with their sisters, it's legitimate for you to do it too? That's basically what you're implying that if NATO lower their standards, we should stoop to their level. This is WHY the taliban are NOT legitimate, two wrongs don't make a right. Have some self respect.

legitimate means not exploiting women , children and fighting like men with weapons even if they are primitive and outdated, not cowardly tactics disregarding your own peoples safety. That is the way Muhammad(saw) fought, THAT is the True Jihad.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Go join your fellow camel jockeying modernists in the arabic world crying out for democracy and western intervention from arab dictators.

Kind Regards,

Pashtuns.

Go join your Fake Pakistani fabricated version of Shariah and ISI masters and prostitute your namous at Heera Mundi as Taiiban just did for them.

Kind Regards

True Muslims

[Toramana]

Few things to deflate the blowback effect argument and from-the-scratch development model---First, equating King Zahir Shah, or Amanullah Khan, or Sradar Daud with Mullah Omar will be equating horses with donkeys. King Zahir Shah, Sardar Daud, etc. were progressive Afghan nationlists although their ruling style could not be called examplary from the standpoint of democratic pluralism.

Second the Western intervention was not brought about by Pashtun nationlists but communists and Islamist both alter-egoes of each others. Rather Islamists can be held more responsible because they not only liked to be the cannon fodders for Western interests but also sold themselves to Pakistanis and Arabs (i.e., why you have Haqqanis connected with Arabs and Gulbuddin and Mullah Omar hiding in sanctuaries provided to them by ISI). They i.e., the Islamists caused this intervention in two ways; first by becoming cannon fodders for CIA, etc.; second by imposing their extremist views on the rest the society by force and harbouring Arab, Chechen, Uzbak, Ughur, etc. outlaws and terrorists thus not only causing social and political disruption of Afghan society but also the intervention of foreign powers whose interests conflicted with such behaviour.

But one thing is certain. Civilization has always marched on despite the disruption, timults, and violent resistance of the brute and the barbarian. There are more girls getting education in KP despite girls schools burnt by the bruts.

[ScimitarXEdge]

[

i'm not a scholar to forbid or allow suicide bombings but since she did it, it must have been because she was desperate because of the crimes perpetrated by invaders and traitors like you so the least I can do is to salute her bravery and to tell her sacrifice will never be forgotten

you're right the Taliban probably raped her and brainwashed her to do it; or threaten to murder her family, as they usually do.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Ironically

It was the AlQaeda wahhabi radicals who were begging for NATO intervention, the same ones the Taliban model themselves after, coincidence?

and this half literate uneducated drop out Khar-Bar Khan thinks it was Modernists asking for NATO.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Few things to deflate the blowback effect argument and from-the-scratch development model---First, equating King Zahir Shah, or Amanullah Khan, or Sradar Daud with Mullah Omar will be equating horses with donkeys. King Zahir Shah, Sardar Daud, etc. were progressive Afghan nationlists although their ruling style could not be called examplary from the standpoint of democratic pluralism.

Second the Western intervention was not brought about by Pashtun nationlists but communists and Islamist both alter-egoes of each others. Rather Islamists can be held more responsible because they not only liked to be the cannon fodders for Western interests but also sold themselves to Pakistanis and Arabs (i.e., why you have Haqqanis connected with Arabs and Gulbuddin and Mullah Omar hiding in sanctuaries provided to them by ISI). They i.e., the Islamists caused this intervention in two ways; first by becoming cannon fodders for CIA, etc.; second by imposing their extremist views on the rest the society by force and harbouring Arab, Chechen, Uzbak, Ughur, etc. outlaws and terrorists thus not only causing social and political disruption of Afghan society but also the intervention of foreign powers whose interests conflicted with such behaviour.

But one thing is certain. Civilization has always marched on despite the disruption, timults, and violent resistance of the brute and the barbarian. There are more girls getting education in KP despite girls schools burnt by the bruts.

You're wrong on your history, showing once again that you need to go back and read the classical sources.

Amanullah Shah and Zahir Shah had veneers of legitimacy but even Zahir Shah's father was at loggerheads with Amanullah's reforms. In fact, thanks to Wazir and Mehsud tribal intervention, they made their way into Kabul and deposed Bachaay Saiqo and subsequently appeased the conservative countryside by undoing some of the reforms (e.g. the ban on polygamy and the forced donning of Western attire).

Subsequently, even the Brezenzki clips posted here show that the innate conservative thread that has been present in Afghanistan was capitalized, but NOT invented by the West. In fact Brzenzski, despite multiple attempts to by the nationalists here to supposedly make him say it... never admits that he INVENTED the islamic insurgency... instead he says he capitalized upon it.

Moreover, it was Zahir Shah's father who was a part of the plan to ensure Amanullah did not regain the throne and Sardar Daud kicked Zahir Shah out. So please explain how exemplary this order of affairs was?

Moreover, Kawun Kaker explains exactly how Mullah Omar himself and his movement is just that... blowback.

The other issue with the repeated narrative of the Taliban being the creatoin of Babar is a confusion of the chicken and egg paradigm. There is no doubt that funding emanated form Pak madrassahs... but Kakar notes:

"Taliban's rescue of the convoy and their subsequent establishment of law and order in the areas under their control demonstrated that they would be the guardians of this new trading route, a role for which they are believed to have received extensive military support from Pakistan."

So rather, it was the Taliban's ability to save the Convoy that resulted in the ISI taking notice, versus the ISI creating the group itself.

But that is a separate discussion... the issue was what sort of blow back created Omar?:

"The cycle of violence, destruction, and chaos of the Mujahideen era created the condition for the rise of the puritanical Taliban. There are several versions of how a small group of taliban, led by Mullah Muhammad Omar took control of areas around Qandahar in 1994."

And who created this cycle and sustained it?

Well, the linch pin and the destructor to the retarded arguments that it was all Brzenzki's ruse lays in Amin himself. President Amin was suspected of a double game by the Soviets and KGB records insinuate they were worried that he was forging links with Pakistan and China. This is actually one of the two big reasons the Soviets utilized, in addition to the secret aid that Carter sent.

So once again, the dubious basis of the invasion falls on the shoulders of you, the pashtun marxists, for Amin's idiocy (a fact that the soviets admitted subsequently... they felt his actions had destabilized Afghanistan in terms of his brutal repression).

So you basically once again proved my point for me in that Mullah Omar was the end result of all of your tom foolery. Nothing more, nothing less.

And the sad thing is that you did not learn from your first mistake and now are calling in a second invasion force to do your work for you!

Its very opportunistic Toramana...in the 1980s you were about the comrade walk, the color red, and about irreligious governance devoid of capitalism... now you are for the red, white, and blue, about irreligious goverannace, and are an avid capitalist and technologist! yet you do not realize that, as I said, you are reapetedly delaying the birth of our own Nathanial Hawthorne with your invitations for others to do the job that you seek to do.

As I have said... lets turn the question on its head.

You and your ilk say: Why do you live in the West and not in an Islamic state? (easy answer... there is none)

I say: If you are so invested in the modern Afghanistan, no excuses my friend, the Afghan National Army needs recruits and it needs fighters in Helmand. Please, by all means, save the life of Bobby Jo and Timmy here and go and deal with Mullah Omar. So my question is, what are you doing sitting comfortably in Canda or in the hills of Swat? Why not go and fight the good fight from the front lines? Are other people, farangyaan good enough to be cannon fodder for your cause, but not you???

[کیش]

so by Using that Logic, because members of NATO soldiers allow random guys to fornicate with their sisters, it's legitimate for you to do it too? That's basically what you're implying that if NATO lower their standards, we should stoop to their level. This is WHY the taliban are NOT legitimate, two wrongs don't make a right. Have some self respect.

legitimate means not exploiting women , children and fighting like men with weapons even if they are primitive and outdated, not cowardly tactics disregarding your own peoples safety. That is the way Muhammad(saw) fought, THAT is the True Jihad.

Who are you to make that decision? Have you ever fought a war, or been through one to know what "cowardly" or "bravery" is?

Go and make your own army to liberate your land, until then Afghans are stuck with the Taliban. Its pretty hypocritical for people to support 80's Muj and not current Muj.

Instead of downplaying their struggle, as a Muslim if you see something wrong with the Ummah go and do something about it. Not just the Internet go outside and talk to whoever listens. Don't respect the Taliban, create something better for Afghans. Until then you have to respect the fact that they are fighting 40+ nations, dodging Drones and other surveillance aricrafts with only light-armory and occasional bomber.

[Soldat_Amir]

Still Akhwanis and other fanatics try as hard as they can to make it to the land of opportunities---if left to desert/stone-age medievalism and associated ideologies, far from having this online forum a miracle of modern technology linking so many members spread accross the globe, they would be riding donkeys and jokeying camels---

what is their contribution to the world by the way---apart from harems and cancubanism---?

Exactly, I agree with you 100 percent. They enjoy the technological achievements of the West, but backbite on the same country that hosts them. if one compares, the laws/standard of living in the Arab world, to the west, you will know what I mean.

The amusing thing is, these Anti-Westerners, who despise everything to do with the West still run to the West for a better standard of living and for opportunities to make money from a very unislamic capitalistic system.

I mean, what has Al Qaida,Ikhwanis and Taliban done for the Muslim world besides bring that part of the world so backward into time, that even a country like Vietnam has a better standard of living than some of the Muslim countries?.

Not only this, but Toramana, I once read an article over the Salman Tasreer killing by a Fanatic called Mumtaz Qadri, there was a facebook page, in support of him, and most of the supporters had Favorited Justin briber as their favorite musician, this is the state of affairs in those kind of peoples minds.

Muslims have a good time in the West, thats why they live there and not in their respective nations, they feel safer, get received a unbiased education of their own choice, they are free to follow whatever faith they want, they are have rights as a citizen, go to Pakistan, and I dare you to say "free Asia bi", you would be lynched by a mob of Pirs and probably killed, the same pirs who run to the West to make profit selling their taveeezes.

Then we have the case of these clerical organisations, who come to the west to collect donations, why do that if you hate the West so much!!!!

A Eytpian girl was once killed by a fanatic german in a court, the whole of Eyptian was protesting, but when a Pashtun girl is killed by a Fanatic Arab "Fedayeen suicide bomber" in Swat, nobody even gives a damme in the Arab world.

We as Pashtuns need to take our own interests into account.

[Afghanistan2010]

How are Taliban Beghairot when they have been fighting NATO now for 10 years? NATO has women soldiers, but the Taliban can't have any?


Beghairot is the one who can't recognize a legitimate Jihad when it's in front of their face.

Oh by legitimate, am talking about the common Afghan who dislikes NATO tanks roaming through their districts.

The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan has deployed more than 300 female fighters across afghanistan,but they are not active fighter.
Some work as weapon transport to avoid attention by foreign terrorists and their local slaves.
Others works as spies for the islamic emirate.

And more than 100 are in prison in Bagram (May Allah free all muslim captives from the hands of the terrorists).

[al-arab]

I do not know why this Toramana racist rhetoric and lies about Arabs can continue here unnoticed.

Concubines is a phenomenon that existed/and exist in every culture. It has existed in Europe for 3000 years. Every European King had several children out of wetlock, so stop being an ignorant.

Every 4 child in the world is born out of wetlock. I can assure you that this number is nearly non-existing in the Arab world but much more common in secular countries where you can date everyone you want all the time without being married and even go to brothels everytime you want.

Is that your picture of a ideal world.

[Toramana]

I do not know why this Toramana racist rhetoric and lies about Arabs can continue here unnoticed.

Concubines is a phenomenon that existed/and exist in every culture. It has existed in Europe for 3000 years. Every European King had several children out of wetlock, so stop being an ignorant.

Every 4 child in the world is born out of wetlock. I can assure you that this number is nearly non-existing in the Arab world but much more common in secular countries where you can date everyone you want all the time without being married and even go to brothels everytime you want.

Is that your picture of a ideal world.

May be this practice existed in other societies but it was taken to perfection by Arabs e.g., Harun-ur-Rashid, the Arab emperor had 2000 cancubines in his harem. It is said, during the khalafath of Hadrath-i-Usman when Arab conquest of non-Arab lands began, war booty started coming in including cancubines and slaves.

At that time a common Arab noble of Mecca and Madina would have on average 40 cancubines at his harem. And the only productive activity he would engage in would be enjoying the company of his cancubines or roam the streets. This is recorded in the classical history of Islam. This is how Islam was misused for sensual pleasure and worldly gains.

[al-arab]

May be this practice existed in other societies but it was taken to perfection by Arabs e.g., Harun-ur-Rashid, the Arab emperor had 2000 cancubines in his harem. It is said, during the khalafath of Hadrath-i-Usman when Arab conquest of non-Arab lands began, war booty started coming in including cancubines and slaves.

At that time a common Arab noble of Mecca and Madina would have on average 40 cancubines at his harem. This is recorded in the classical history of Islam. This is how Islam was misused for sensual pleasure and worldly gains.

I still don't see your point. Concubines exist and existed in every society throughout history. People are after all people regardless of race, believe and skin colour. And sadly most people do not follow the rightful Islam or
the rightful versions of other religions they believe in.

Everytime you are racist you commit Haraam.

"O Men, We created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may KNOW one another (NOT THAT YOU MAY DESPISE EACH OTHER)."
Q.30:22

"And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. Verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge."


"And be not as those who divided and differed among themselves after the clear proofs had come to them. It is they for whom there is an awful torment." Q.6:159

There are also a lot of examples of this in the Hadith.

You claim to be Muslim but all you do is mostly un-Islamic. You can write your message without commiting Haraam.

I am just doing you a favour here but I also know that your hatred can not be cured by me but only yourself and your conscience.

This is also a warning to the two well-known communists on this forum (soldat-Amir and his friend with the Lenin avatar on this forum)