Pak-Afghan Borders Sealed And Visas Denied

[graveyardofempires]

admin should ban you forever to keep this forum clean and tidy.

Admin should ban all pakis and anti afghan elements.
funny thing is evertime something is said to nokia th aultimate paki you jump cry out loud.

as you are here using cheap language against the people of pashtunkhwa.
you have the right to defend your people and we do the same.
But your way is full abuse and un-pashtun language.

i use the same language against people from afghanistan as well if they are promoting anything against lar aw bar untiy ,not that its a good thing but you need to cut this differentiatiing between lar aw bar.your people my people?LOL

people supporting punjabi establishment are the slaves punjabis ,agree but
what about afghan-pashtun speaking and adopting persain language and culture,who they are?

so according to you Pashtuns of Afghanistan are adopting dari language? that is unfounded and pashto in the fabric of afghanistan btu you dont want to see cuz you want to play us down,those who adobt to dari are just weak and that doesnt mean they arent pashtuns,they still support Afghanistan and are pro pashtuns.

who is karzai talking more persains then pashtu?
are they not iranians.?

No they arent iranians at all,they are Afghans.
you shouldnt be worried about this ,if you were supporting the lar aw bar unity than this wouldnt be an issue.
so according to you farsiwaans who speak pashto(there are alot of them) become pashtuns?

what about thousands of mohmdzais,popalzais and other barakzai sub-tribes talking in iranian.
who they are then?
they are barakzais,popalzais,........etc.

werent you tellign me that i was attacking Pashtuns from Pukthunkhwa(which iam not intending to) so are you setteling the score or something?

as speaking persain make you more pashtuns then others?

this is just plain dumb,how does speaking Persian makes anyone more of a Pashtun.
you should eb worried abotu people first than the language cuz over a million pashtuns have died so far in ten years under differen tpretext and you are tellign us about flourishing of Pashto.

One of the main reason pashtun from the east dont like the idea of greater of afghanistan is this persain influence.

doesnt make sense,since in Afghanistan Pashto is i must say not fully but well established and when durran dline is finished than automatically pashto becomes the more.

Once you get rid of that then why would a pashtun oppose greater afghanistan then?

ive explained to yoiu
i personally am not against languages as both bilangual pashtun who speak both pashto and urdu can be used as soemthing good and i dont have such a bleek picture as you do or maybe you dont knwo the ground realities and see status of Pashto too low in Afghanistan.

[graveyardofempires]

The topic to be continued on the action of pakistani govt and let see the re-action of afghan govt.

you wont see a reaction from them ,they are cowards and might just applaud it under the pretext of isi taliban over border activity.

[Bengal_Tiger]

1. This decision has been made after a lot of attacks on Pakistani forces including a recent operation killing over 20 Pakistani soldiers as far north as Chitral, as well as an "Al-Qaeda" operation killing 25 people in Quetta and also an attack killing 12 (15) or more people in Lakki Marwat (Around 60 people in different parts of northern Pakistan).

2. Rehman Malik, who is now a hated figure by many Pakistanis and suspected of being a British surrogate, has basically said Afghans are to blame for this.

3. Malik also spoke about Bramdagh Bugti having operated from Kabul.

Referring to Balochistan, the minister claimed law and order situation here was better than other provinces since Bramdagh Bugti had been driven out of Kabul where he was commanding the militants from.

http://nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-n...-on-foreigners

In other words Malik is saying Afghanistan is a de facto enemy and working against Pakistan. In other countries this is just one step in a process which can even ultimately culminate in all out war. Pakistani nationalists have been urging a military operation against Afghanistan to eradicate militants, in the same way Turkey has recently invaded parts of northern Iraq.

4. ANP and PMAP have not yet said anything about this, but a few years ago when a Pakistani government plan to fence and mine the Durand line was made, both parties protested strongly and the plan was abandoned.

5. Tribals have not yet said anything about this.

However for FATA tribals and others they hate outsiders, an outsider is not just Lahore or Islamabad, but also Peshawar or even Kabul. The tribes of these areas did not even accept the rule of Hadhrat Ahmed Shah Abdali (rahmatullahi alaih).

If this measure goes on for a long time, the tribals may see this as unacceptable and do something.

Militants were routinely beating the Pakistan army which was forced to sign treaties giving control of land to them a few years ago, until the TTP became too extreme and the tribes rejected them.

Anyway Pakistan now is like a ship sinking and with leaks in many holes. Even if one hole is fixed, the others must be fixed or the ship will sink. Even if Pakistan sorted out the Pakhtunkhwa and Balochistan insurgencies, Karachi is now under threat and it is Karachi which provides 60% of taxes for the government and if there is complete wa in Karachi for a long time, Pakistan collapses economically.

The way Karachi's politicians are speaking now, the spectre of a giant civil war in the city looms ominously.

Karachi MQM RAW Trained Terrorists Firing (MQM target killers) - YouTube

From 4 years back, May 12th a day everyone remembers in Karachi.

MQM Terrorists Firing On Karachities - Live On ARY News.flv - YouTube[/URL]

MQM violence a few weeks back.

[Admin Khan]

The issue he is trying to point out to you Luffy is a very simple one... its one that pro Karzaa and pro freedom fighters both have. Let me put the questions/points in bullet form to make them easy to answer 1 by 1.

1) Pakistan has a dual mode policy where they armed Wazir and Mehsuds (and a host of other mainland KP Pashtuns and Afghans) to fight the Russkeys... and in private, there is a faction of the military that wants the freedom fighters to cross the border and be a nuisance for India and America. That is the key word "nuisance" but they do not necessarily want a definitive win for these people either. It is because they sustain the Pakistani economy and military progress with this approach.

2) The freedom fighters in question 1 feel that it is their religious obligation to fight a defensive struggle against the invader power. The argument that the fighters friends from Arabia brought the super power there matters not a lik or a wit to these people because they reflect on the fact that these Arabs were there because America also intervened in their countries and they were driven out there even after attempting to fight the super power on their home soil and continuing to do so:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...n_Saudi_Arabia

http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...451459,00.html
http://www.asianews.it/news-en/'Lady...dah-22260.html

Pakistan capitalizes on this sentiment but at the same time allows NATO killing machines to cross its soil. Why???

3) When the tribal fighters and the Afghan Taliban and the AQ folks figured out that Pakistan was both using them for its own purposes and at the same time UN/NATO efforts were proceeding on Pakistan's back, they asked Pakistan to stop giving arms to their enemies.

Is it not absurd that you take a young Wazir fighter and tell him: Across the border your enemy awaits... warsha pa dao and be brave like your ancestors were!

Then while he is walking across the border the Pakistani government is sending arms to the NATO soldier that will kill that young boy very probably?

4) Why is it so hard for Pakistan to simply adopt the following policy (maybe I am speaking naively here):

A. Tell America clearly that it does not agree with permanent bases with Afghanistan and will not allow NATO supplies to cross its borders
B. Tell America to cease and desist from all drone attacks on its soil or else Pak Migs will intercept the drones.
C. Tell Amerca clearly to leave all its bases on Pakistani soil.
D. Tell the tribals and the Afghan Taliban that they will not stop these folks from doing whatever it is that they think is their duty... but it cannot, for the sake of its survival, provider arms, logistics, or support???

Is the fear that America will escalate aerial bombardment of Pakistan???

5) As I understand it, at its inception, the Pakistani state was, under Muhammad Ali Jinnah, meant to be a secular one.

As I also understand it, Pakistan was not meant to be a meritocracy, but a plutocracy... meaning that Kuli Khan Khattak's descendents and Jangeer Arbab's descendents and Sherpao's descendents ruled and were given privileges during the British era and the state that was created allowed these installed oligarchs to continue their strangle hold over Pakistan.

A truly Islamic state is a meritocracy where so and so's son cannot buy his way into medical school or into Engineering school, but this appears to be the norm in Pakistan.

It appears that Pakistan's oligarchs are afraid that if a truly Islamic government comes into power in pakistan, then Sherpao, the Arbabs, the Achekzais, etc will have to answer for their nepotism.

For this reason, the Taliban were heroes initially on pakistani state media in the 90s but are now considered "terrorists." Why the narrative change? Can you admit that it is because H Mehsud threatens to change the status quo?

After all, it is said that the ultimate destruction of a top down system is Islam... this is exactly why Karzai and his ilk will not allow a true Islamic state to flourish... it is because Karzai, Ghani, Ameen Arsala, Seraaj, the Muhammadzai pertenders to the throne... were licking their lips when the NATO invasion took place... the Pakistanization of Afghanistan in the manner of oligarchy and nepotism was about to occur and continues to occur:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/06/wo.../06karzai.html

"WASHINGTON — Until recently, Taj Ayubi’s specialty was retail. Mr. Ayubi, an Afghan immigrant, ran a furniture store in Leesburg, Va., and before that, a thrift shop in Washington.

But today, Mr. Ayubi’s specialty is foreign policy. He is the senior foreign affairs adviser to the Afghan president, Hamid Karzai.

Among Mr. Ayubi’s qualifications for his post in Kabul are ties to President Karzai’s extended family. His sister is married to a Karzai, and her sons are now important junior members of the growing Karzai family network in Afghanistan."

Barakzai sahab,
You saved me hours. Dera mañana. Some people just wish not to learn. There is a difference between listening and hearing, if you know what I mean.

[Toramana]

Rahman Malik togethor with Luffy and Nokia are living in fool's paradise if they think they would permanetly divide Pashtuns. We would ask them to immigrate to Boriwala when we would hane our unification under a secular framework.

[Nokia_Apridey]

Luffy and Nokia are living in fool's paradise


mannna zargeyaaaaaaaaaaaa

Khu chay sok --- ka osegy hago ta ba sa yaye cmon yarga ma

[khushal]

First, they cant seal the border. It is extremely difficult, almost impossible. NATO cant even seal from the Afghan side, how can pakistan seal from their end.

Second, Pakistans instability is caused by the invasion of FATA by PAk forces. Afghanistan had nothing to do with it. So even if sealing the border was possible, the violence would continue because the root cause is the invasion of FATA. Pak forces have to leave FATA, only then you will see the violence subside. Also Pakistans double game has been exposed and all parties are well aware of it.

[Nokia_Apridey]

Bacha khbaro ka da sor shta Khushala dar kha ....

khalak halta laray nast di nato ka ao zmung sra da magar mach okhey jara wi :P

[Bengal_Tiger]

First, they cant seal the border. It is extremely difficult, almost impossible. NATO cant even seal from the Afghan side, how can pakistan seal from their end.

Second, Pakistans instability is caused by the invasion of FATA by PAk forces. Afghanistan had nothing to do with it. So even if sealing the border was possible, the violence would continue because the root cause is the invasion of FATA. Pak forces have to leave FATA, only then you will see the violence subside. Also Pakistans double game has been exposed and all parties are well aware of it.

1. For Pakistanis, FATA problems are excassibated by the support FATA tribals recieve from their kin across the non-existent Durrand "line", so if that is sealed off it at least reduces the problem, e.g. the Uzbeks (who were from Uzbekistan) and other militants who joined the TTP came from Afghanistan.

2. You are right, the border is porous, you can prevent normal civilians, women and children from crossing but for determined insurgents they will find a route to evade the Pakistani forces.

3. This move wins over mainstream Pakistani public opinion but alienates Pashtuns, most Pashtuns in Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa are not diehard Pakistani nationalists like Luffy (who is from a background connected to the Pakistani state and government and boasts about his ISI contacts) and if this border sealing carries on, it will just enrage them especially in FATA, Balochistan, rural areas. PMAP will definitely protest against it.

Most KPK Pashtuns are not "Pathans" like Luffy or Shehbaz MQM-walla.

If they were the ANP would not be ruling Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa, Pakistani nationalists including many "Pathans" regard the ANP as pro-Indian traitors.

[Karachi]

1. For Pakistanis, FATA problems are excassibated by the support FATA tribals recieve from their kin across the non-existent Durrand "line", so if that is sealed off it at least reduces the problem, e.g. the Uzbeks (who were from Uzbekistan) and other militants who joined the TTP came from Afghanistan.

2. You are right, the border is porous, you can prevent normal civilians, women and children from crossing but for determined insurgents they will find a route to evade the Pakistani forces.

3. This move wins over mainstream Pakistani public opinion but alienates Pashtuns, most Pashtuns in Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa are not diehard Pakistani nationalists like Luffy (who is from a background connected to the Pakistani state and government and boasts about his ISI contacts) and if this border sealing carries on, it will just enrage them especially in FATA, Balochistan, rural areas. PMAP will definitely protest against it.

Most KPK Pashtuns are not "Pathans" like Luffy or Shehbaz MQM-walla.

If they were the ANP would not be ruling Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa, Pakistani nationalists including many "Pathans" regard the ANP as pro-Indian traitors.

^ there is where you are so wrong thats its not even funny.

I am not pashtun but i have seen by my own eyes how so many pashtuns are patriot pakistanis, i have been to peshawar and surrounding areas many times and i know what i saw

[graveyardofempires]

^patriots under threat from being tortured by pakisatan forces.

here are when they were able to express themselves
Taliban support in Pakistan's Swat Valley - 11 Nov 07 - YouTube

and here is when pakis got to them to punish them for not beign "patriotic"
Pakistan Army Lining Up Teenagers In Swat Valley & Shooting Them Dead - Al-Jazeera Documentry.wmv - YouTube
The Pakistan Army torturing during interrogation a innocent Pashtune. - YouTube
Pak Army torturing men in swat - YouTube
Pakistani Army Tortures Beaten and Bound Old Man by Dragging Him Through Streets Best Gore - YouTube

[afgpower]

^
lol i wonder what these paki nationalists have to say about this

[Karachi]

^patriots under threat from being tortured by pakisatan forces.

here are when they were able to express themselves
Taliban support in Pakistan's Swat Valley - 11 Nov 07 - YouTube

and here is when pakis got to them to punish them for not beign "patriotic"
Pakistan Army Lining Up Teenagers In Swat Valley & Shooting Them Dead - Al-Jazeera Documentry.wmv - YouTube
The Pakistan Army torturing during interrogation a innocent Pashtune. - YouTube
Pak Army torturing men in swat - YouTube
Pakistani Army Tortures Beaten and Bound Old Man by Dragging Him Through Streets Best Gore - YouTube

Do you really think in Peshawar and other major city KP cities, pakistani forces are doing this???