Afghan Taliban to Open Office in Turkey

[Bengal_Tiger]

Idiot: Turks are a very religious and Islamic people. 20% of them however are secular and anti-Islamic eg. their military.

However go outside of the big cities, conservative Muslims are the majority in Turkey...and by far (diaspora Turks are a bit different).

Turks - excluding the Kemalist trash - take the whole Muslim brotherhood concept more seriously and will respect a brown-skinned Bangladeshi/desi more than an Arab will. A few years ago there was talk of an "Islamic car" to be built by Iran, Turkey and Malaysia, why do you think there was no Arab state involved?

Anyway with democracy the country's wannabe-western worshippers of Ataturk are losing power and their fascist ideals being destroyed. The next Turkish parliament in June may have Hijabi MPs.

Tormanna: I am not a Pashtun, but a Muslim and student of history. If Turkey wants to play a constructive role in Afghanistan they will benefit, if however they seek to cause trouble then Pashtuns are the wrong people to mess around with as the British Raj, Soviets, Americans and Pakistanis have all found out. Turks were defeated by Russians and others in Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Tatarstan, the Balkans, Caucasus and also the recent defeat of Turks in Azerbaijan by Armenia where the numerically weaker Armenians smashed the Azeris making 1 million Azeris refugees and taking huge territory.



Erdogan with militia leader and ethnic Pashtun, Hekmatyar.

MESSAGE TO THE US

On a personal note as a Muslim Bengali I regard Turks as my brothers, but it is quite clear to me the US policy is to make Turkey the de facto leader and bully boy of the Muslim world which orders all over Muslim countries around, my message to the Americans is simple We defeated one US-backed army in 1971 and gave them such a beating that they cry over it to this day, we are not going to accept a US-backed bully from Ankara instead of a US-backed bully from Islamabad.

You have no idea who you are f***ing around with.

We basically spearheaded the creation of a Muslim homeland in South Asia. Jinnah, Liquat Ali Khan all got into parliament by using seats in Bengal. East Bengal is the only place the Muslim league enjoyed any major support.

We defeated the Hindus and created Pakistan.

We then defeated the British-trained Punjabi army with officers like Niazi and Tikka Khan who were loyal servants and soldiers of the British Raj.

The Pakistan army at that time was the army of the biggest Muslim state in history, bigger in population than the Ummayad, Abbasid or Ottoman states and it was the Pakistan army which had to kneel to the Muslim Bengali only to be saved by a Hindu/Sikh army who made sure Pakistanis remained alive and were protected. The Pakistan army were saved by their Indian brothers.

You Americans were pumping the Pakistan army with weapons and moved your 7th fleet to the Bay of Bengal, we however defeated you and your army.

We are the nation of Isa Khan, Shah Jalal and Islam reached us way before it reached the Turks. It was Sa'ad bin Abi Waqqas who first went to Chittagong, Bengal on his way to China. We recieved Islam before Morocco, Turkey or Pakistan.

We are an island of Islam in an ocean of polytheism. It is know from Islam, that an 'ijtmaa'ee amal (collective action) has more baraka (blessings) than one done individually. So we have a population greater than Russia in a compact territory but with salah (prayer), dhikr (remberance of Allah) being done, so huge blessings pouring into the blessed land of East Bengal.

I ask Allah ta'ala to destroy your evil plans, we Bengalis will never accept domination and subjugation by others and at least by a US-backed Erdogan regime.

You Americans have been trying to set up a base in St Martin's island for years now and we have refused to this day, we are not Pakistan where you kill innocent Musilm Pukhtoons with drones.

We We defeated the British, the Hindus, the Punjabis backed by you, Iran and Arab countries. You tried to get us to send troops to Afghanistan last year and we refused to fight against our Muslim brothers:

We have the biggest Islamic gathering in the world every year besides Hajj, when perhaps as much as 5-6 million Muslims gather in Dhaka for the Tongi Ijtimaa, you already supported one abusive "Muslim" overlord against us, do not try it for the second time and if you do then may Allah destroy you.

Ameen.

[Karachi]

Idiot: Turks are a very religious and Islamic people. 20% of them however are secular and anti-Islamic eg. their military.

However go outside of the big cities, conservative Muslims are the majority in Turkey...and by far (diaspora Turks are a bit different).

Turks - excluding the Kemalist trash - take the whole Muslim brotherhood concept more seriously and will respect a brown-skinned Bangladeshi/desi more than an Arab will. A few years ago there was talk of an "Islamic car" to be built by Iran, Turkey and Malaysia, why do you think there was no Arab state involved?

Anyway with democracy the country's wannabe-western worshippers of Ataturk are losing power and their fascist ideals being destroyed. The next Turkish parliament in June may have Hijabi MPs.

Tormanna: I am not a Pashtun, but a Muslim and student of history. If Turkey wants to play a constructive role in Afghanistan they will benefit, if however they seek to cause trouble then Pashtuns are the wrong people to mess around with as the British Raj, Soviets, Americans and Pakistanis have all found out. Turks were defeated by Russians and others in Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Tatarstan, the Balkans, Caucasus and also the recent defeat of Turks in Azerbaijan by Armenia where the numerically weaker Armenians smashed the Azeris making 1 million Azeris refugees and taking huge territory.



Erdogan with militia leader and ethnic Pashtun, Hekmatyar.

MESSAGE TO THE US

On a personal note as a Muslim Bengali I regard Turks as my brothers, but it is quite clear to me the US policy is to make Turkey the de facto leader and bully boy of the Muslim world which orders all over Muslim countries around, my message to the Americans is simple We defeated one US-backed army in 1971 and gave them such a beating that they cry over it to this day, we are not going to accept a US-backed bully from Ankara instead of a US-backed bully from Islamabad.

You have no idea who you are f***ing around with.

We basically spearheaded the creation of a Muslim homeland in South Asia. Jinnah, Liquat Ali Khan all got into parliament by using seats in Bengal. East Bengal is the only place the Muslim league enjoyed any major support.

We defeated the Hindus and created Pakistan.

We then defeated the British-trained Punjabi army with officers like Niazi and Tikka Khan who were loyal servants and soldiers of the British Raj.

The Pakistan army at that time was the army of the biggest Muslim state in history, bigger in population than the Ummayad, Abbasid or Ottoman states and it was the Pakistan army which had to kneel to the Muslim Bengali only to be saved by a Hindu/Sikh army who made sure Pakistanis remained alive and were protected. The Pakistan army were saved by their Indian brothers.

You Americans were pumping the Pakistan army with weapons and moved your 7th fleet to the Bay of Bengal, we however defeated you and your army.

We are the nation of Isa Khan, Shah Jalal and Islam reached us way before it reached the Turks. It was Sa'ad bin Abi Waqqas who first went to Chittagong, Bengal on his way to China. We recieved Islam before Morocco, Turkey or Pakistan.

We are an island of Islam in an ocean of polytheism. It is know from Islam, that an 'ijtmaa'ee amal (collective action) has more baraka (blessings) than one done individually. So we have a population greater than Russia in a compact territory but with salah (prayer), dhikr (remberance of Allah) being done, so huge blessings pouring into the blessed land of East Bengal.

I ask Allah ta'ala to destroy your evil plans, we Bengalis will never accept domination and subjugation by others and at least by a US-backed Erdogan regime.

You Americans have been trying to set up a base in St Martin's island for years now and we have refused to this day, we are not Pakistan where you kill innocent Musilm Pukhtoons with drones.

We We defeated the British, the Hindus, the Punjabis backed by you, Iran and Arab countries. You tried to get us to send troops to Afghanistan last year and we refused to fight against our Muslim brothers:

We have the biggest Islamic gathering in the world every year besides Hajj, when perhaps as much as 5-6 million Muslims gather in Dhaka for the Tongi Ijtimaa, you already supported one abusive "Muslim" overlord against us, do not try it for the second time and if you do then may Allah destroy you.

Ameen.

lol, sure take the credit away from indians, you had nothing to do with defeat if pakistan in 1971, bengalis are hardly any type of warriors lol,

[Toramana]

Alchemist wrora, are you KHIDR?

Sorry, I'm not that regular on this forum so not sure if you are him or a completely different person.

Alchemist is not Khidr and possibly have political views different from those of Khidr.

However, when somedays back, a scuffle happened between Azmal, Barakzai, and ComradePashtun and during which Barakzai mentioned Tajaks negatively despite request by rudolph, Khidr appeared out of nowhere to admonish Barakzai and company. I suspect it was rudolph to ask Khidr to do so.

But anyhow, I may be wrong.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

lol, sure take the credit away from indians, you had nothing to do with defeat if pakistan in 1971, bengalis are hardly any type of warriors lol,

They produced economic master Muhammad Yunis. Also, I have a bare bones understanding of the West / East Pakistani issue, but you must, as a reasonable person be willing cede some ground on the great number of historical mistakes the southern pakistan nexus made in fomenting the conflict and causing ordinary Bengalis to provide support to the Mukhti Bahini. I read Fatima Bhutto's book and she, even as Bhutto's grand daughter, is more than willing to admit a failure on the part of the Pakistani regime in such matters. Despite being an avid eulogizer of her grandfather, she also admits that his policies lay the seeds for the Balochi insurgency Pakistan is suffering from today.

[Bengal_Tiger]

This message is hidden because Karachi is on your ignore list.

I have put a certain troll on my ignore list as I do not wish to read his abuse anymore. I have however read one of his racist and hate-filled comments due to Tormanna quoting it whilst refuting the racist's post.

I have informed admin and would like to request that everyone remain calm and not react to this attempt to provoke, incite a flame war and stir racism. On a personal note may I say that it is indeed very sad that a somewhat emotionally unstable individual residing in Canada, who on previous ocassions has lamented at how miserable Pakistan has become and said that he is proud to be "Canadian", for the purposes of "entertainment" goes to online internet boards and calls for the expulsion of civilian men, women and children from Pakistan. Doing all this whilst being an immigrant enjoying a comfortable standard of living and affluence calling for the punishment of people suffering from poverty.

I would like to thank all posters for ignoring this individual and the best way is to ignore this hate-filled, bitter and angry person.

Thank you.

Tormanna: I am not particularly concerned about who is this and who is that. I do however think that both you and I would agree with any Turkish involvement which is positive and we would both agree that it would be very unwise for Turkey to cause harm to any group or party in Afghanistan.

[Toramana]

Toraman wrora

you are making it too black and white.

Turkey wasnt actively supporting dostum in his crimes or the "uzbek and turkman" people.
....
....
....

"
.
.
.
Turkey launched a new foreign policy initiative for Afghanistan and Pakistan as soon as Ahmet Davutoglu became the new Minister of Foreign Affairs in May. Parliamentary committees from both Afghanistan and Pakistan came to Ankara to meet with officials there and soon after, Davutoglu visited both countries in June. Ankara, while trying to act as an honest broker between Afghanistan and Pakistan, is at the same time aiming to unite the Turkic groups under one roof ahead of the upcoming August 20 elections. Turkey seems to be putting Dostum, who has been protected and seen as the most important card in Afghan politics, on the shelf for the moment - with possible plans to use him again in the future. In many ways, the problems in Turkey's Afghanistan policy began with its relationship and reliance on Dostum.
.
.
.
The ‘great game' between the United States and the Soviet Union which was played out in Afghanistan during the 1980s, which ended with US victory, gave way to a broader regional game in the 1990s. This time, the great powers decided to play the game through their regional proxies rather than participating directly. The US camp was composed of Pakistan, which supported the Taliban, Saudi Arabia and various Gulf States; while on the other hand, the Russia-led alliance was composed of Iran, Turkey, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan, which all supported the Northern Alliance. While every member in the American camp favoured supporting the Taliban, members of the Russian camp lent support to different group within the Northern Alliance. For example, Iran supported Shiite Hazars, Russia and Tajikistan supported Tadjiks under Mesud's leadership and Turkey and Uzbekistan supported General Dostum.....

While Turkey stayed away from Afghanistan during the Soviet occupation in the 1980s, renewed interest emerged when Dostum established an autonomous government in North Afghanistan in 1992. In those days, DYP (True Path Party) MP Ayvaz Gokdemir and Turkish officials rooted in the MHP (Nationalist Movement Party) initiated shuttle diplomacy between the capital of Dostum's autonomous government, Mezar-i Serif, and Ankara. In a short period of time, Turkey opened a consulate in Mezar-i Serif, which was followed by other forms of aid. ..."

http://www.eurasiacritic.com/article...ng-afghanistan

"Turkey’s close ties with Dostum, however, have led to questions about Turkey’s neutrality toward different Afghan groups in the context of its involvement in the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF). The Turkish government has insisted that despite its special ties with Dostum, the country did not discriminate between the various Afghan groups, and supported Karzai’s government (www.msnbcntv.com.tr, January 10, 2002). Dostum visited Turkey as the new government’s deputy defense minister in January 2002 and met with Prime Minister Bulent Ecevit and other officials. His entire visit was arranged by the Turkish National Intelligence Agency (Hurriyet, January 23, 2002). At the time, Turkey’s overt association with Dostum raised criticism that it would result in Dostum’s gradual marginalization in Afghan politics, as reflected in his exclusion from the Bonn Conference...."

http://www.jamestown.org/single/?no_..._news%5D=34242

http://www.rawa.org/turkey2.htm

[randolph85]

Alchemist is not Khidr and possibly have political views different from those of Khidr.

However, when somedays back, a scuffle happened between Azmal, Barakzai, and ComradePashtun and during which Barakzai mentioned Tajaks negatively despite request by rudolph, Khidr appeared out of nowhere to admonish Barakzai and company. I suspect it was rudolph to ask Khidr to do so.

But anyhow, I may be wrong.

what the

[graveyardofempires]

"
.
.
.
Turkey launched a new foreign policy initiative for Afghanistan and Pakistan as soon as Ahmet Davutoglu became the new Minister of Foreign Affairs in May. Parliamentary committees from both Afghanistan and Pakistan came to Ankara to meet with officials there and soon after, Davutoglu visited both countries in June. Ankara, while trying to act as an honest broker between Afghanistan and Pakistan, is at the same time aiming to unite the Turkic groups under one roof ahead of the upcoming August 20 elections. Turkey seems to be putting Dostum, who has been protected and seen as the most important card in Afghan politics, on the shelf for the moment - with possible plans to use him again in the future. In many ways, the problems in Turkey's Afghanistan policy began with its relationship and reliance on Dostum.
.
These sources arent reliable,we should look at what has Turkey done so far and what impact did it have.

i can show you mutiple reports on how turkey is building schools in Afghanistan regardless if it pashtun or uzbek area.
.
.
The ‘great game' between the United States and the Soviet Union which was played out in Afghanistan during the 1980s, which ended with US victory, gave way to a broader regional game in the 1990s. This time, the great powers decided to play the game through their regional proxies rather than participating directly. The US camp was composed of Pakistan, which supported the Taliban, Saudi Arabia and various Gulf States; while on the other hand, the Russia-led alliance was composed of Iran, Turkey, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan, which all supported the Northern Alliance. While every member in the American camp favoured supporting the Taliban, members of the Russian camp lent support to different group within the Northern Alliance. For example, Iran supported Shiite Hazars, Russia and Tajikistan supported Tadjiks under Mesud's leadership and Turkey and Uzbekistan supported General Dostum.....

((((((((((((((((Thats when you are wrong again
you take some cleverly written piece which gives credit for all other parties for an event happening in AFG.
In this article for example they say "tajikistan supported Tadjiks under massud" that is bogus,tajikistan is even still a russian influenced country and they even blamed the tadjiks in AFG for supporting the insurgency in tajikistan.)))))))))))))))))


While Turkey stayed away from Afghanistan during the Soviet occupation in the 1980s, renewed interest emerged when Dostum established an autonomous government in North Afghanistan in 1992. In those days, DYP (True Path Party) MP Ayvaz Gokdemir and Turkish officials rooted in the MHP (Nationalist Movement Party) initiated shuttle diplomacy between the capital of Dostum's autonomous government, Mezar-i Serif, and Ankara. In a short period of time, Turkey opened a consulate in Mezar-i Serif, which was followed by other forms of aid. ..."

thats again in the past and you are yet to show me about now,tell me if turkey is somehow conspiring against Afghanistan.

http://www.eurasiacritic.com/article...ng-afghanistan

"Turkey’s close ties with Dostum, however, have led to questions about Turkey’s neutrality toward different Afghan groups in the context of its involvement in the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF). The Turkish government has insisted that despite its special ties with Dostum, the country did not discriminate between the various Afghan groups, and supported Karzai’s government (www.msnbcntv.com.tr, January 10, 2002). Dostum visited Turkey as the new government’s deputy defense minister in January 2002 and met with Prime Minister Bulent Ecevit and other officials. His entire visit was arranged by the Turkish National Intelligence Agency (Hurriyet, January 23, 2002). At the time, Turkey’s overt association with Dostum raised criticism that it would result in Dostum’s gradual marginalization in Afghan politics, as reflected in his exclusion from the Bonn Conference...."

http://www.jamestown.org/single/?no_..._news%5D=34242

http://www.rawa.org/turkey2.htm

These articles still cannot verify if turkey is somehow involved in supporting warlords to cause instability in Afghanistan as you claim.

[Bengal_Tiger]

Turkey's aspirations for leadership of the Turkic world are not going that far.

Central Asian Turks resent what they regard as Turkey's arrogant, big brother attitude.

Pan-Turkic nationalists also hurled many invectives against China over their crushing of the Uighur uprising a year or two ago (an uprising in which Turkic Uighurs, also attacked other Turkic Muslims such as Kazakhs) but in the end could do very little against the ultra-shrewd Chinese with their huge army.

Turks clashed with each other in Uzbek-Kyrgyz violence in Central Asia.

Washington encourages pan-Turkism as it will cause problems for both Russia and China, however the Chinese know what they are doing and have things under control.

The Turkish patronage of Dostum as opposed to Pakistani patronage of the Taliban shows Pakistan and Turkey indirectly conflicting with each other, so belying this "eternal friendship" the two have.

I do not think Ankara can go too far with supporting Dostum and I think they realize that, and plus Uzbeks are fundamentally loyal to the concept of a unified Afghanistan. Ankara will lose influence it has in Afghanistan if it pursues an overly partistan pro-Uzbek/Turkic policy.

Also decision-makers in Ankara are different to the Kemalist-nationalists of the past such as the DYP and MHP and Islam and the understanding of pan-Muslim fraternity plays a bigger role in things i.e. what Pashtun/Afghan Muslims want is just as important as some fellow Turks in Afghanistan want.

However fundamentally the Erdogan-Gul regime in Turkey is a US proxy (Turkey has been this since the time of Menderes, if not Ataurk himself).

Summary: I don't think there's much to worry about and Graveyardofempires is right in that Turkey will play a positive role, it has too. Pan-Turkism just won't do much for it.

[Toramana]

Turkey's aspirations for leadership of the Turkic world are not going that far.

Central Asian Turks resent what they regard as Turkey's arrogant, big brother attitude.

Pan-Turkic nationalists also hurled many invectives against China over their crushing of the Uighur uprising a year or two ago (an uprising in which Turkic Uighurs, also attacked other Turkic Muslims such as Kazakhs) but in the end could do very little against the ultra-shrewd Chinese with their huge army.

Turks clashed with each other in Uzbek-Kyrgyz violence in Central Asia.

Washington encourages pan-Turkism as it will cause problems for both Russia and China, however the Chinese know what they are doing and have things under control.
.
.
.
Also decision-makers in Ankara are different to the Kemalist-nationalists of the past such as the DYP and MHP and Islam and the understanding of pan-Muslim fraternity plays a bigger role in things i.e. what Pashtun/Afghan Muslims want is just as important as some fellow Turks in Afghanistan want.
.
.
.
However fundamentally the Erdogan-Gul regime in Turkey is a US proxy (Turkey has been this since the time of Menderes, if not Ataurk himself).
.
.
.

Bengal_Tiger, be consistent. You are saying a number of mutually conflicting things in the same breath e.g. Turkey being cognizant of the importance of Muslim fraternity and the obligations associated with it yet being a US proxy (to work against Muslim interests presumably)...Moreover, what the effectiveness or non-effectiveness of Pan-Turkism has to do with the decline in Turkish aspiration to be a Pan-Turk leader?

Without substantial share in power, Uzbaks wouldn't be much interested in the union.

[Toramana]

These articles still cannot verify if turkey is somehow involved in supporting warlords to cause instability in Afghanistan as you claim.

graveyard, Rashid Dostum started his own currency in 1990s besides his own airline and Turkey extended his wardom diplomatic recognition (almot) by setting up its consulate in Mazar Sharif. And yes, every state wants advancing its agenda without killing the foe/enemy but seldom is a state restrained by these humanistic considerations if killing is necessary to achieve its objectives.

[Bengal_Tiger]

Bengak_Tiger, be consistent. You are saying a number of conflicting things in the same breath e.g. Turket being cognizant of the importance of Muslim fraternity and the obligations associated with it yet being a US proxy (to work against Muslim interests presumably)...Moreover, what the effectiveness or non-effectiveness of Pan-Turkism has to do with the decline in Turkish aspiration to be a Pan-Turk leader?

Without substantial share in power, Uzbaks wouldn't be much interested in the union.

Turket being cognizant of the importance of Muslim fraternity

Yes, the new Islam-orientated government does place more importance on that, however it can only pursue certain things within the parameters of what the US will allow it to do. The US will not allow it to do anything which harms her interests.

The US is not necessarily out just to harm Muslims. The US is out for one thing...and that is the US.

It will utilize and support Muslims when required (e.g. Bosnia, Kosova, Chechnya) and turn against them when required e.g. Iraq.

Moreover, what the effectiveness or non-effectiveness of Pan-Turkism has to do with the decline in Turkish aspiration to be a Pan-Turk leader?

Without substantial share in power, Uzbaks wouldn't be much interested in the union

You're not clear here.

However if I understood you correctly, then the strength of pan-Turkism has everything to do with Turkey using pan-Turkism.

If other Turkic states are not that interested - which actually is the case - in pan-Turkism, than Ankara will realize it can't dwell too much on this for promoting its interests.

However fundamentally I do not see AKP-Turkey as an anti-Afghan power and agree with Graveyardofempires.

The other thing I am pointing out is much rhetoric is issued in the name of this eternal Turkish-Pakistani brotherhood but alot of it is hype (e.g. Pakistan backing the Taliban, Turkey backing one of their enemies Dostum, rather than working in tandem with each other back in the 1990s).

However the establishment of any Taliban office is just part of the US programme to make Turkey the de facto leader of the Muslim world who bosses everyone around.

Turkey has already started doing that, violating all diplomatic protocol and making strong comments on the internal affairs of many Muslim and Arab countries, lecturing people...when its own treatment of Kurds has much to be desired.

In the Afghan context they would just increase their role as the powerful intermediary who gets involved and arbitrates, and now accomodating another powerful party, the Taliban.

This has little to do with pan-Turkism but more making Turkey "the wise man" of the world, as per Davutoglu.

[randolph85]

yeah pretty much. turkey is looking to exert its role in the region and as a power broker. turkey is out for turkey, if it can take advantage of a little pan turkism, then it will, but its not the primary focus of its foreign relations. its also trying to take advantage of its new found popularity in the muslim world. the country is at a unique spot because it is generally tolerated by differing sides such as the arabs and iran. turkey will only become stronger if it looks to the east and relies less on the west.

though, people shouldn't be easily fooled by turkeys islamic pandering because until turkey reinforces islam in its own society which it hasn't, then its a farce. turkey should follow the malaysian model.

[randolph85]

Bengal_Tiger, be consistent. You are saying a number of mutually conflicting things in the same breath e.g. Turkey being cognizant of the importance of Muslim fraternity and the obligations associated with it yet being a US proxy (to work against Muslim interests presumably)...Moreover, what the effectiveness or non-effectiveness of Pan-Turkism has to do with the decline in Turkish aspiration to be a Pan-Turk leader?

Without substantial share in power, Uzbaks wouldn't be much interested in the union.

turkey isn't a US proxy but it also isn't an independent entity which can act against the interests of the US so blatantly. under erdogan, turkey has seen a remarkable economic revival as well as expanded influence in the middle east and south asia. its rising economy has allowed turkey to act more independently of the west than before. for example, turkey has launched satellites that allow it use its own intelligence from hi res photographs whereas before it was using american intel. israel has actually protested against this because there is a law that doesn't allow hi res photographs of certain israeli areas to be taken.

that said, turkey is still a small fish that is a nato partner and has sent war machines for the libya effort among other misadventures. turkey is playing both sides of the card, as it should, to comfortably further its own interests while still being held in relatively high regard among the west.

[Bengal_Tiger]

Turkey is engaged in an internal power struggle at the moment, in fact Erdogan is being so successful it is arguable whether we can call it a "struggle" or just a battering of the Kemalists.

Conservative, Islam-friendly (but by no means "Islamist" along the classic Muslim brotherhood or former Refah partisi model) Turks, who are the majority against the traditionally ultra-secular elite who hate Islam. Erdogan and the AKP are winning and are locking up fascist generals and coup plotters, providing greater rights for Kurds, a more pluralist society, greater democracy and free speech and more respect for religion.

In terms of secularism v Islam in Turkey the pivotal issue in Turkey is the ban on the headscarf which - as people on PF who are mainly Muslims can understand - is more than just a ban on a piece of clothing, but the state openly declaring to be a pious Muslim is inferior and thus attacking their values. The AKP have basically won this with calls for there to be hijabi MPs in parliament in June, something unthinkable years ago in Turkey and which woul have prompted the fascist army to issue a declaration or even threaten a coup.

As for foreign relations, Turkey should be a polite and helpful brother but not some foul-mouthed bully, which it is at times. In terms of Afghanistan they should be told to be respectful of that country's own aspirations and not favour one particular racial group, and I think the Turks will do this and know they have no other option.

The Dostum/Uzbek card is insignificant compared to the respect of all Afghans and Afghanistan as a state. The fact they are hosting the Taliban, is clearly not something Dostum would want.

So in essence there is nothing to worry about, as it is clear an individual like Dostum is not that important for Ankara.