pakistan army robbing houses in swat?

[laevanay]

Again you are wrong in some points. i never said, people did not support them. BUT i have to tell you the whole story, if you recall all that situation in the start so you will come to know that in the very start when they started their campaign in different ways so there was no killings, no kidnapping nothing. They attracted people by doing some great works, may be some people would call me fool but it is a reality that they did some great things for example they made patch ups between people, the resolve property issues of people within days, they made road in the hilly areas for people, the totally eliminated the CD shops from swat which was a demand of the majority of the people of swat and there was a strong reason behind that demand, they gave inheritance right to many widows and other married women, they started giving justice to people at their door step, they assured people that they will provide a cheap and easy justice. so what else people need.
they eliminated the taweez gunda program, the made people islamic, they created a hope in the hearts of the people for a just system.
until this 90% of our people were with them BUT when they started beheading people and kidnapping people for ransom only then people started realizing that it is something else. and then 70% of the people got back.
the remaining 30% of the people were those who had gone in this dark hole and they had no way of return so they had to be with them by majbori....
look i never said that army did not kill those so called talibs but i said that it is totally injustice when you kill one terrorist and call him kafir and murdaar and ghaddaar and at the other hand leave the other terrorist and call him shaheed and appreciate him and give rewards to him.
both should have been beheaded in public. but i am sorry to say it was not done.
now you are talking about army not robbing people... i did not want to say anything about this but now i would say though u have touched this point.
i have personally seen so many things only in my village which was a safe heaven for the army and there was no talib there though the surrounding villages were pro taliban but mine was different. so in my village army people have gone to so many fields of the people and have rooted out their crops of vegetables and eaten there like hungry yajooj majooj....
then another one at another occasion some two hundred army men entered a house of our MPA which was empty because they were in peshawar by that time... so they entered the house without their permission AND they stayed for a night and did so much dirt their i cant tell you. they uncleaned every room, every bath room and the other day they left the house without cleaning the house. they did not want to leave the house but some big order from islamabad came.
then i have seen them by my own eyes that army men with the support of their officers sell flour, diesel, petrol, cooking oil and other things...
then they have cut off so many gardens of the people but still nothing was paid to them, in my own field we had some trees of apricot a very rare was cut off by the army.
then they have still occupied people's houses and property and dont pay them.
and some dirty activities i cant mention here.

Again you are wrong about buneris, they did tried their best to defend their buner but when talib entered they could not dare to come out of their house then...
now you say that they were betrayed by some commissioner so i ask you were not being betrayed by every army man, by every isi agent, by every police, by every talib, by every politician??????????????????
and we were being betrayed for three years.
buneris knew all the situation and they were watching for three years, but still in three days they were betrayed ????????????????

emkhan: You better get out of your mullah mehfil, seems like you are diluting the facts in favor of those thugs. We all know that every ghunda from Landakay to Shangla joined the talibs. You must admit that. They did not join the talibs because they were so pious, they joined them because they knew that their thuggery would be supported and it was. Did you ever hear Fazllulah say once on his radio comedy show that no thugs will be supported in his ranks?

Ask about Alpurai; a relative of mine refused to hand over his property because the talibs(who were area locals and not army in talib uniforms) wanted his house because of strategic reasons, it was on a hill overlooking the main road from his house, he was kidnapped first after a ransom was paid he was released only to be kidnapped and murdered a few weeks later. Most of those seen during the initial jirga have fled and those we found did not live long enough to see the next day.

Shangla; another relative of mine was forced to entertain 6-8 pickup worth of "mujahideen guests." My uncle had no option but to provide food and beds for these thugs but he secretly vacated the house of all women and children. Told all the women of the house to go to my other uncles house... later he told us that the reason why he did that was he was praying that a drone strike his hujra and take out all those idiots....

As for Bunair incident ask anyone there (makes me doubt you are from the region) but the treachery of Commissioner Javed is very popular and even in the news....

You may support the talibs and may like to blame indians, marikhay mama, isi, raw, cia, barmanoo etc for all the blowing up of female schools, killing of female teachers because they were prostitutes, banning of entertainment CDs but openly selling beheading CDs(mind you I still have mine and will be posting the videos to my site so we do not forget), dragging of people out of their homes to kidnap for ransom or killing them, blowing up of bridges, banning of female doctors(BTW there is still the video of Sufi Muhamad on my website, listen to that and tell me that is not bull crap) but I am very sorry to say that not once did Fazllulah say that these things are wrong... if you support any of the above then you my friend are very lucky the army does not have their sight on you..... So now you admit that the talibs were first supported by people... thank you, but the people did not turn against the talibs because they started kidnapping, they were against tourism(which was also destroyed during the first Sufi Muhammad uprising a few years before), and against women(local and tourists) going out with their families, started making primary school girls wear the full burqa, forcing barbers not to cut hair or beards, banning of pants and shirts uniforms in private schools, blew up Sangota Public School because it existed there for more than 100 years and it was a convent(wonder how many became Christian after attending my school?), the list goes on and on... and if you try to create excuses my friend ask yourself this, not once did Moulana FM say it was wrong.. so if he supported it... the people did not... and it was then people realized the monster they had created it was too late....

Sadly, although I have to say the army is part of the problem and I hate them for the destruction of infrastructure and minds of the people, I will have to admit that if they had not cleaned up Swat we still would have been in a very bad situation under the talibs....

[emkhan]

to some who play dumb and dont see the reality, who whole tragedy of ours is that dont realize things on time, islam has always been used against pashtun. the british have spread the lies and used islam and bring down afghanistan. so the same tactics are used by pakies. the people of swat were desperate to get rid of paki establishment. they have supported all kinda parties including mullas, nationalist, seculars.

Exactly the people of swat were desperate to get rid of the unjust system of establishment.
Look there are some guys from swat, they may better understand what i am trying to say.
When swat a separate state, there was complete justice, peace and development and education but when swat was merged in pakistan then people gradually started feeling insecure and in a few years everything got changed.
So our people had a vision of such era again. an era of islam, an era of justice, peace, haya and all that. when they found someone is providing them such system then automatically they had join him no matter whether he is religious or nationalist or secular or whatever but they had to accept him for their needs.

[laevanay]

emkhan: The area of Bunrl existed during the days of Wali... right? There was no utopia then and there never was or will be.....

You cannot blame the system if you refuse to follow it. Why is it that a system works for 100% of the civilised world but not in the sarzameeni Pak?

[emkhan]

emkhan: You better get out of your mullah mehfil, seems like you are diluting the facts in favor of those thugs. We all know that every ghunda from Landakay to Shangla joined the talibs. You must admit that. They did not join the talibs because they were so pious, they joined them because they knew that their thuggery would be supported and it was. Did you ever hear Fazllulah say once on his radio comedy show that no thugs will be supported in his ranks?

Ask about Alpurai; a relative of mine refused to hand over his property because the talibs(who were area locals and not army in talib uniforms) wanted his house because of strategic reasons, it was on a hill overlooking the main road from his house, he was kidnapped first after a ransom was paid he was released only to be kidnapped and murdered a few weeks later. Most of those seen during the initial jirga have fled and those we found did not live long enough to see the next day.

Shangla; another relative of mine was forced to entertain 6-8 pickup worth of "mujahideen guests." My uncle had no option but to provide food and beds for these thugs but he secretly vacated the house of all women and children. Told all the women of the house to go to my other uncles house... later he told us that the reason why he did that was he was praying that a drone strike his hujra and take out all those idiots....

As for Bunair incident ask anyone there (makes me doubt you are from the region) but the treachery of Commissioner Javed is very popular and even in the news....

You may support the talibs and may like to blame indians, marikhay mama, isi, raw, cia, barmanoo etc for all the blowing up of female schools, killing of female teachers because they were prostitutes, banning of entertainment CDs but openly selling beheading CDs(mind you I still have mine and will be posting the videos to my site so we do not forget), dragging of people out of their homes to kidnap for ransom or killing them, blowing up of bridges, banning of female doctors(BTW there is still the video of Sufi Muhamad on my website, listen to that and tell me that is not bull crap) but I am very sorry to say that not once did Fazllulah say that these things are wrong... if you support any of the above then you my friend are very lucky the army does not have their sight on you.....

Sadly, although I have to say the army is part of the problem and I hate them for the destruction of infrastructure and minds of the people, I will have to admit that if they had not cleaned up Swat we still would have been in a very bad situation under the talibs....

Dear lewania, you again did not get me. i never supported the talibans, i was just telling you the whole story how it all started and how the people joined them by showing them day dreams.
even that i was praying to Allah and did nafal to Allah get them out of our swat because the situation was very unsafe. i think you may not have bothered prayed to Allah. i have met army men in this regard, but not with talibans because i knew they are trained and or on someone's agenda, they will never listen to me.
then you talked of army did not rob anything so i told u a few stories only in my village.
then you talked about the betrayal done with the people of buner so i just said they were betrayed only for three days even they had an experience of three years and they were watching the whole situation of swat.
but we swatians were being betrayed for three years by talib, army, isi, politicians and everyone.
i said talib and army were one. talib was killed but the bigger talib still exists. they can create such a situation again if not in our area in some other area of pushtuns... so it is unjustice to kill the small one and leave the bigger thugs.
who are still looting our swat in every way

[laevanay]

emkhan: I am not saying we were played with we were part of a bigger game.... but our stupidity was to blame 100% for what happened in Swat.

If we had not supported Moulana FM(btw I do not know how a village idiot can become a moulana but I guess the criteria is low) we contributed to our destruction. If FM was an agent of ISI etc it was again our stupidity that funded this thug, it was our weapons and men used to fight for this thug and his "mission" which was in no way Islam or Shariah...

I blame the army too, like I said for 2 years they did nothing but I believe(and my thoughts only) that when the US started to ask questions (about the country falling to Talibs and where their $$$s were being spent)and ANP realized after Bunair its Mardan they started doing something... even thought the Swat Khanan went and begged for govt intervention in Swat long before it started.

I blame the talibs too, if they were pious and good people the people would have fought the Paki army for them, but the thugs were not... and therefore the people supported anyone who was against these thugs... if Mossad had come even they would have been supported....

[emkhan]

emkhan: The area of Bunrl existed during the days of Wali... right? There was no utopia then and there never was or will be.....

You cannot blame the system if you refuse to follow it. Why is it that a system works for 100% of the civilised world but not in the sarzameeni Pak?

its a different thing... people are like children of the govt. govt has to give them direction, govt has to teach them, govt has to drive them to the right path, govt has to use force.
what you say people of the civilized world are so good that they follow the laws by themselves the answer is big NO. actually the govt forces them to follow the rules and laws otherwise everyone is ready to break the law...
Look i am here in london for the last few months... what i have seen here is that people here are more eager to break the laws and do every illegal thing but the govt governance and implemetation is to good and so strict that one can not even think of breaking the law.
Now i ask you is there any such good governance there in your country say NO.
even in your own swat when army is there on the road nobody can dare to break the law but what happens when the police is there ?????????

Now these so called civilized people's minds have been made and trained by the govt to not to break the law so everybody is following automatically... and they have reached to this after a long long struggle and efforts...
just think of china, how were they a 50 years back, how were the americans a 100 years back, how were the british a 100 years ... all these nations were called barbaric but now they are called civilized only because of the enforcement of law and order and strict implementation.

[emkhan]

emkhan: I am not saying we were played with we were part of a bigger game.... but our stupidity was to blame 100% for what happened in Swat.

If we had not supported Moulana FM(btw I do not know how a village idiot can become a moulana but I guess the criteria is low) we contributed to our destruction. If FM was an agent of ISI etc it was again our stupidity that funded this thug, it was our weapons and men used to fight for this thug and his "mission" which was in no way Islam or Shariah...

I blame the army too, like I said for 2 years they did nothing but I believe(and my thoughts only) that when the US started to ask questions (about the country falling to Talibs and where their $$$s were being spent)and ANP realized after Bunair its Mardan they started doing something... even thought the Swat Khanan went and begged for govt intervention in Swat long before it started.

I blame the talibs too, if they were pious and good people the people would have fought the Paki army for them, but the thugs were not... and therefore the people supported anyone who was against these thugs... if Mossad had come even they would have been supported....

yes army and isi did not want the operation but they took the initiative on american pressure and dollars and elite class pressure. then they realized that something wrong can happen like in bangal and then they started operation.
yes talibs were not pious people there were so many groups there and everyone was looting people and making the situation too worse.
but my dear again i dont blame common people because they are common.
the intelligence, govt, foreign activists, media ngo if all these get together and wants to make a common man on their own track they can do it. its natural dear...
we call anp to be the strong opponent of army and isi but do you know anp the secular people are playing in the hands of isi in karachi against mqm.
so i want to say you can turn anybody's mind to your side.
IT IS NATURAL

[Nido Jay]

with all the wrong doings and evil acts you are still happy with the army and isi. you know that those so called taliban were trained by the army but still u are not ready to blame and behead this na pak army and isi.
u killed so many unaware and simple people with tanks and jets but you did not even asked those army generals and isi dogs who made them like that.
This is not justice. inshallah Allah will ask all one day
i know u people come for fun and then escape

woah woah woah dude.. when did I support the army? when did i say that they are loyal and just and whatever???

I dont come here for fun, discuss the topic, don't get judgmental about others.