Ask an American, agnostic and atheist man pretty much anything

[ozymandias]

i am not comfortable with either one of those terms on their own and together they might defy each other... I m okay with not being sure as long as I keep on searching. If I do figure it out, good. If I don't, pretending surely won't get me anything.

That's acceptable. I can understand not being comfortable with the terms -- or seeing them as contradictory. Like I said, I am far from an expert on Islam. On the surface, they do not seem to contradict -- but that's why I am here, to understand how others view the world.

[faye]

... understanding that ultimately it is impossible to conclusively prove or disprove the existence of that god.

when you state something for which you have no proof, why don't you say, 'i think....' or 'i believe...' because this is only your personal belief, an assumption. it is not something that has been proven.

[faye]

but that's why I am here, to understand how others view the world.

lol..all you have been doing, is dismissing, how others see the world. that is not' understanding'.

[ozymandias]

when you state something for which you have no proof, why don't you say, 'i think....' or 'i believe...' because this is only your personal belief, an assumption. it is not something that has been proven.

In this case, this is not a personal belief nor an assumption. By definition the supernatural is something that exists outside the scope of science. It would be your favourite perjorative, sciencism, to pretend that science can prove or disprove something that by definition is outside the scope of science.

[ozymandias]

lol..all you have been doing, is dismissing, how others see the world. that is not' understanding'.

I'm only dismissing you because you are here to troll, and have no intention to have an actual conversation.

[faye]

who said that science is the one NEEDED,to give verification about god/allah/intelligent creator? not me.

but as a scientist, you are trying to tell others what cannot be proven. still acting as the dogmatist.

dogmatist; an arrogantly assertive person.

[ozymandias]

who said that science is the one NEEDED,to give verification about god/allah/intelligent creator? not me.

The definition of 'proof'.

proof

/pro͞of/
Noun
Evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or the truth of a statement.


fact

/fakt/
Noun

• A thing that is indisputably the case.
• Information used as evidence or as part of a report or news article.

For most people, these definitions are pretty close to the ones they use when having a casual conversation.

but as a scientist, you are trying to tell others what cannot be proven. still acting as the dogmatist.

I'm sorry you think it is dogmatic to use the English definitions of words when having a conversation in English.

dogmatist; an arrogantly assertive person.

You are welcome to feel I am being arrogant for knowing definitions of common words.

[faye]

i have my own personal experiences as my own verification about an intelligent creator. so scientists are not needed for that, i agree.

[ozymandias]

i have my own personal experiences as my own verification about an intelligent creator. so scientists are not needed for that, i agree.

Which takes full circle back to the statement you had a problem with in the first place. Since your experiences don't establish the existence, or non-existence of a god as a fact, and thus they are not proof, and thus you have still failed to prove my statement wrong.

If subjective experiences constituted proof, mutually exclusive items would both be true, which, logically, is a problem.

[faye]

proof enough for me and others, just as scientific verification is your supplier of what you choose to believe and have faith in.
difference is, as i stated before, i am secure in my knowledge as it is my own.

[ozymandias]

proof enough for me and others, just as scientific verification is your supplier of what you choose to believe and have faith in.
difference is, as i stated before, i am secure in my knowledge as it is my own.

Good for you. You believe what you want to believe. Have fun with that.

[faye]

i am, even without your permission.

[DaZahroJaam.]

I found this book in my collection last night and was constantly reminded of this thread while I was reading it. Has any of you read this??

[Admin Khan]

I found this book in my collection last night and was constantly reminded of this thread while I was reading it. Has any of you read this??

An interesting read if you have time to spare.

[ozymandias]

Looks like I will have to pick that one up... Thanks!