Ask an American, agnostic and atheist man pretty much anything

[faye]

Some things are clearly more imaginary than others.

'more imaginary'..i like that. prove it.

[ozymandias]

The funny thing about Atheists in general is when you ask them clear cut to proof their is no god, and they get offended and commit a real fallacy (this word is thrown around a lot but this is when you use it the correct way)

Not all atheists are gnostic atheists -- which is the fallacy you are making.

fal·la·cy

/ˈfaləsē/
Noun

• A mistaken belief, esp. one based on unsound argument.
• A failure in reasoning that renders an argument invalid.

You are mistakenly assuming all atheists are gnostic, and asking them a question you would need to be gnostic to answer. That is a fallacy. That is your failure in reasoning, and renders your entire argument invalid.

I believe Atheists have a problem following the rules that God has sent forth.

You are free to believe that, but if you want others to believe it, you might just need to back that up. I for one don't agree, for obvious reasons.

They refuse to follow the commandments that same way the devil refused to prostate towards Adam.

Really? I disagree.

I have no gods at all, let alone one above or before others.
I do not make graven images and bow to them.
Believe it or not, I do not take the name 'Yahweh, God, or Jesus' in vain.
I don't work on the Sabbath. I don't work six days, though... That might be a problem. I don't exactly keep it 'holy' -- but that's because that word is meaningless to an atheist skeptic.
I honour my father and mother -- a few days ago I was asked if I celebrate Christmas, and honouring my parents was part of why I go through the motions.
I don't kill humans. I do eat meat and plant matter, which requires killing, but the commandment is typically taken for a prohibition against murder.
Never cheated on my wife or a girlfriend.
I don't steal.
I don't really commit the thought-crime of 'coveting' -- I am actually fairly pleased with how I am doing in life. While a few more dollars on the paycheck would be nice, they are not needed -- I realize I am far better off than most people. If I want something, I work towards it, and don't really fall into the concept of 'coveting'.

I have no problem with your rules. Some I see as useless, some I see as obvious, but I tend to follow them anyway -- either through coincidence (coveting -- I didn't decide not to covet), or through common sense or a secular morality (I have never been in a situation where murder was an expedient solution to a problem, nor would I want to live in a society where murder was a legitimate solution).

The devil felt he was above humans. Atheists believe science is above God.

See, you are confused again. That statement is gibberish. By definition, atheists are without believe in a god, or gods. They don't think *anything* is above your god or gods. Your god or gods don't even get ranked.

[ozymandias]

Pascals wager was not really answered rationally.

Care to explain? Pascal's Wager is a thoughly debunked argument. I may not have gone into depth, but nobody really takes it seriously after having looked at it long.

Even Einstein admitted he could not argue against Pascals wager.

This is new to me. As far as I knew, Einstein never specifically addressed the Wager -- and many of his public and private statements clearly showed that he was neither a Christian, a Jew, or a Muslim, nor any idea of a personal god. Einstein believed in what is called 'Spinoza's God' -- a concept that the universe itself is structured and can be considered a god, worthy of awe and examination, but not as a supernatural being, only as a linguistic construct. This is itself the primary flaw of the Wager -- that there is more than one concept of god.

When one denies the existance of a creator, then one must deny the existance of creation even if everything is the figment of imagination, the imagination exists therefore imagination itself is creation and the figments are also creations. Can creation come from nothing, if so than nothing is also the figment of imagination and that is something. The idea of nothing itself is creation.

Huh? Reality does not require a creator. While you are correct that without a creator, there is no creation -- that does not mean reality cannot exist, it just means that reality is not a 'creation' in that sense.

[faye]

Exactly! That's what agnostic means! I am agnostic because you cannot provide a falsifiable definition of 'intelligent creator'. That's a limitation we all have.
I deny the existence of your creator, though, because you have yet to provide any evidence or rational argument to justify belief.

*sigh*

i do believe you are being extremely repetitive. i think we already got that message through the whole thread.

[ozymandias]

Ozzy,

what is your career field / how do you make a living?

I chose not to go into much detail for privacy reasons. I seem to have offended enough people by being alive and posting here that this is a prudent idea.

I will state that I work in the educational field in multiple capacities. I am an instructor at the collegiate level, preform research into computer science issues, and support the research efforts of my colleagues.

[ozymandias]

'more imaginary'..i like that. prove it.

If you are going to argue that all of reality is a figment of imagination, that makes actual figments of imagination a figment of a figment, a dream inside of a dream.

It's a poetic phrase, not intended to be taken exactly literally. If a fictional character somehow creates a fictional character themselves, they are removed from reality by an additional step.

[ozymandias]

*sigh*

i do believe you are being extremely repetitive. i think we already got that message through the whole thread.

I'm only repeating it because some people don't seem to get it. Look back a page -- we still have someone insisting that all atheists must be gnostics, and it's somehow a fallacy for them not to be -- people are not even grasping basic concepts, and require a little repetition...

[faye]

lol...this tag must be very important, hommie.

[faye]

If you are going to argue that all of reality is a figment of imagination, that makes actual figments of imagination a figment of a figment, a dream inside of a dream.

It's a poetic phrase, not intended to be taken exactly literally. If a fictional character somehow creates a fictional character themselves, they are removed from reality by an additional step.

you call that arguing?

still it is a possibility that an open and curious mind would possibly consider as a possibility since they don't know yet, that it is not the case.

[DaZahroJaam.]

why do you think that the term agonistic is not sufficient enough to describe what you believe in?? Why add atheist to it??

[ozymandias]

why do you think that the term agonistic is not sufficient enough to describe what you believe in?? Why add atheist to it??

Because the two describe very different things. Gnostic/agnostic is about whether you believe something can be proven, theist/atheist is about your belief (or lack of belief) in god, or gods. It's possible to be an agnostic theist -- and many theists *are* agnostics.

It's like being a pashtun male -- the two terms are both important parts of the description, each describing a different facet of the person being described. Pashtun does not imply male or female, and male does not imply Pashtun, or not.

[کیش]

Lol dude you don't make any sense. I already pinned the tail on the donkey. Stop replying with as stubborn response every time and reread my reply

[faye]

I seem to have offended enough people.

which, of course, was your trolling intention.

[کیش]

Biologic, environmental, or genetic issues.



Citation needed.



Which is why some scholars believe that he suffered from mental illness.



Actually, quite a few people, yourself included, are doing just that in this very thread.



I can. I see no evidence for the existence of a god, or gods. See? Just did.



Oh? What experiment?

Lame response my friend. Blind deaf and dumb at its finest. Being dumb and claiming their is no god just to sound "cool" according to the commandments is a one way trip to hell. You'll have your "citatations" there

[faye]

ozy is unable to comprehend that each person has their own reality. he thinks only he and scientists have it all down pat and if we don't believe the same as he, we are not in reality.