Ask an American, agnostic and atheist man pretty much anything

[RevolutionThroughReason]

sure live in denial

[Afghanistan2010]

We are in agreement there, for different reasons.



Again, that is fallacious logic. I see no evidence that reality required a creator -- in fact, a creator would go contrary to logic.

You think to high of yourself,if you were to craft a new maschine,would you be responsible to tell him who you are and go below to him,or has it to accept that someone created him.

Then why reject science?

There is nothing wrong in learning science,as long as one does not become a blind follower,without looking into the issue,it is you who stress only on science,without seening and facing the reality,sometimes we can measure things,but in reality they are very different from the measured ones.

Historically, that may be true, but many modern Muslims reject science and education, so it is far from true in modern times.

No,that is not true,even the taliban do not reject science at all,that is only in your imagination.

Good luck with that. It will be interesting to see how your views of the world change as you begin to learn how science works.

My views did not change,in contrary my views regarding my beliefs,became stronger and i do not just imagine it,i can feel it,i can almost see it.

[faye]

ok, catya. whatever you say, girl.
how's your gran? she getting good treatment?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

You think to high of yourself,if you were to craft a new maschine,would you be responsible to tell him who you are and go below to him,or has it to accept that someone created him.

that's exactly why this is a logical fallacy; you're assuming that things which were made by humans, like machines translates the same into the universe. THAT isn't NECESSARILY the case. You have no evidence that it is (actually I know how to refute this point, but I won't help you since you reject logic)

In fact it is called a "Watchmaker Fallacy" because people assume that because Watches are Machines and Machines are complex and they're made by humans, it means that the universe is complex that it was made by someone. But complexity does not prove anything. Because complex things can happen by accident

Look at Fractals



Fractals are complex but have no designer they're just a product of very simple algorithm. and evolve on their own.

Now I'm just saying your argument does not prove God, not that God does or doesn't exist.

There is nothing wrong in learning science,as long as one does not become a blind follower,without looking into the issue,it is you who stress only on science,without seening and facing the reality,sometimes we can measure things,but in reality they are very different from the measured ones.

How do you become a "blind follower" when science is not a religion or ideology? It is simply a way of discovering how nature works. That means there can be no "blind following"

Blind following is only in religion because religions say "accept this or Go to hell". Scientists never say that.

No,that is not true,even the taliban do not reject science at all,that is only in your imagination.

Yes actually it is true; remember the Taliban destroyed technology and modern tools except guns of course, since that can be used to oppress people. Taliban had no scientific committee, everything was just about how to use religion to brutalize people and oppress them.

My views did not change,in contrary my views regarding my beliefs,became stronger and i do not just imagine it,i can feel it,i can almost see it.

Well you've never actually studied science; you just browse online; I think if I tested your knowledge on science you'd get many things wrong.

[ozymandias]

that is because faye is just having a bit of fun, watching your arrogance in action.
why would i struggle, in all seriousness, over a different belief system?
you have your view i have mine. you can't prove mine wrong and i can't prove yours wrong.

That's not true at all. Belief systems can, and are disproven regularly.

you will not change my beliefs and i will not change yours, so what is there to struggle about?

That's the problem -- I'm perfectly willing to admit I am wrong, given sufficient evidence. I'm not dogmatic.

each to their own.

[ozymandias]

theaging moron is telling others to stay focused, that's rich

Hey, let's keep it civil in here.

[ozymandias]

still whining like a big girl, catya? are you sure YOU are not a lesbian?

Hey, let's keep it civil in here.

[ozymandias]

look at you, you're hallucinating catya is here; poor troll, you're getting Alzheimers

Hey, let's keep it civil in here.

[ozymandias]

You think to high of yourself,if you were to craft a new maschine,would you be responsible to tell him who you are and go below to him,or has it to accept that someone created him.

Ah. That's the problem. You assume that all things require an intelligent creator. Sand is created by the actions of waves. Does that mean the waves are intelligent?

There is nothing wrong in learning science,as long as one does not become a blind follower,without looking into the issue,it is you who stress only on science,without seening and facing the reality,sometimes we can measure things,but in reality they are very different from the measured ones.

That's rich -- science teaches you *not* to be a blind follower.

No,that is not true,even the taliban do not reject science at all,that is only in your imagination.

Sure. That's why no Muslim countries have restrictions on who can attend school, and what they can learn. That's why no Muslim, anywhere, disagrees with evolution. That's why, even on this board, we cannot find any science illiterate Muslims...

In case you can't tell, that's a bit of sarcasm, here.

My views did not change,in contrary my views regarding my beliefs,became stronger and i do not just imagine it,i can feel it,i can almost see it.

Well, let's wait until after you take some science courses.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Hey, let's keep it civil in here.

Likewise please don't associate Faye with Islam or Muslim as she is not one, nor ever was one. She's a Australian with a Christian background who embraced New-Age ideas later in life.

Afghanistan2010 ..well ...I wouldn't consider him a Muslim, but he identifies as one, so it's fair game to do so.

[ډګروال]

Likewise please don't associate Faye with Islam or Muslim as she is not one, nor ever was one. She's a Australian with a Christian background who embraced New-Age ideas later in life.

Afghanistan2010 ..well ...I wouldn't consider him a Muslim, but he identifies as one, so it's fair game to do so.

and you

are you an agnostic muslim?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

and you

are you an agnostic muslim?

I thought you had proof that I was?

[ډګروال]

I thought you had proof that I was?

yes there is proof.
than why dont you tell our good friend ozzy what your beliefs are?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

why do you need me to tell you if there is proof?

[ozymandias]

yes there is proof.
than why dont you tell our good friend ozzy what your beliefs are?

Why does it matter? My *guesses* would be agnostic theist (Muslim), agnostic theist (deism), or agnostic atheist, in that order, but I can't really see why that matters -- he is able to politely (for the most part) discuss the topics rationally and logically (for the most part). Seems enough for me.