Ask an American, agnostic and atheist man pretty much anything

[faye]

hmmm you seem to be using a convenient but very contextually irrelevant

lol, irrelevent because it erases your rant.

[faye]

It's already on this page my decaying haggard prune. Why should I show you something you already have done blatant;y?

you're one of those dense people

ah, so you and the dumb broad can't show me. does that mean it does not exist?

[کیش]

Reading my responses over and again and something came to me. RTR and Ozymandius are throwing back at me the workings of scientists and textbook facts. I was lateral thinking and came up with original and creative thoughts of my own.

I brought up the parable of Moses and Pharoah. Moses showed Pharoah basic signs, nothing special like angels or God. He stubbornly denied and was adamant of his knowledge of the worlds compared to Moses. The stories of the Prophets are all the same. A man going against the norms of culture by providing basic signs. If you don't believe in the Prophet's existence, no problem. The story's themes serves as a lesson of life.

Please bring critical thinking and stop providing others evidence and recycled thoughts and beliefs. Your lying to yourself if you have a satisfied life, but has never thought philosophically or independently on your own.

[faye]

i think ozy has had an emotional downturn, for him to return to pf and try to boost his frayed ego by treating those who do not believe in his beliefs, as dodos.
maybe science deciding that 'reality is only information and no thing', has upset his little applecart and he feels destabilised and insecure.

lol, fancy these supposedly logical dudes asking for proof of our visions. like we had a camera to take photos of them.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Reading my responses over and again and something came to me. RTR and Ozymandius are throwing back at me the workings of scientists and textbook facts. I was lateral thinking and came up with original and creative thoughts of my own.

I brought up the parable of Moses and Pharoah. Moses showed Pharoah basic signs, nothing special like angels or God. He stubbornly denied and was adamant of his knowledge of the worlds compared to Moses. The stories of the Prophets are all the same. A man going against the norms of culture by providing basic signs. If you don't believe in the Prophet's existence, no problem. The story's themes serves as a lesson of life.

Please bring critical thinking and stop providing others evidence and recycled thoughts and beliefs. Your lying to yourself if you have a satisfied life, but has never thought philosophically or independently on your own.

Creative thionking? Sounded like the same typical following something on blind faiths sheeplism to me. And don't even try fronting this "went against the norm" angle; Being associated with something millions of people follow ignorantly without ever questioning or analyzing its merits is as much a status quo type of mentality as you can get.

You're just tossing around phrases like "critical thinking" and "against the norm" as empty jargon to paint an illusion that your fallacious claims had merit behind them.. Critical thinking isn't about how cute you think your statement looks or how "different" it is; it is about looking at things HONESTLY and examining their VALIDITY; so sure I guess if you think creativity means how flamboyant, incoherent and invalid premises and claims looking so novel.. Sure that I guess is creative, but only on the level of Santa Clause or the Tooth Fairy.

But the reason it seems there's a lack of "creativity" is because Knowledge and Information are things which are valid only if they're independent of people's personal biases and the only way that can happen is if it can be reproduced independently by everyone. But what makes your creativity smokescreen and our supposed lack of creativity legit is what it creates.

Telescopes, Lasers, super computers, the Headphones you jerk and jive to like an idiot when you listen to hip hop music on the train, the digital technology that allows you to hear music. Machines which can explore other planets. Unraveling the secrets of the universe. That's what our supposed "copy cat lack of creativity and regurgitating from texts books" has created. Not by our hands but others who using the same methods did these things.

Your Harry Potter style creativity can't even create a needle, The only thing it creates is a lazy insecure drone who think's his ignorance is some sort of bold social statement and scuff marks on the floor on the way to the welfare line. This rant is simply an excuse for your inability to meet the demands of having merit. You have the wrong idea of what critical thinking is.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

i think ozy has had an emotional downturn, for him to return to pf and try to boost his frayed ego by treating those who do not believe in his beliefs, as dodos.
maybe science deciding that 'reality is only information and no thing', has upset his little applecart and he feels destabilised and insecure.

lol, fancy these supposedly logical dudes asking for proof of our visions. like we had a camera to take photos of them.

yeah I know right because people who claimed to have these so-called visions never hallucinated things that never actually happened. How arrogant for logical people not to accept personalized claims of viisions which can easily be fabricated or deluded as having merit without evidence to support them.

[Afghanistan2010]

you were complaining that science keeps changing it's conclusion everyday! how can it have a conclusion when new discoveries are made and have yet to be made every day?
if you disagree with a man, you want him. if you disagree with a woman, you are a jealous bitch. what of you would i be jealous of?? my comments have plenty of awareness in them. it's you who keeps blabbering on and on about nothing in particular.
seeing how nothing new can be discussed here for the next month or two since you just happened to this subject, i would like to take my leave. i get irritated when people repeat the same stuff over and over and you seem to have the habit of doing just that.

Keep out of the issue stick to your iphone

[Afghanistan2010]

You assume that because that's how you operate in debates that others do I agree with Ozy because his views are logical. If someone says something valid should I deny it?

i'm not like you who just looks for something that agrees with my ideology. I'm Muslim and I can agree with someone who is not as long as their logic is sound. You only agree with people if they say nice words about suicide bombers and Taliban extremists. That's the epitome of kissing ass.

Do you even read what you write you child molester

[faye]

yeah I know right because people who claimed to have these so-called visions never hallucinated things that never actually happened. How arrogant for logical people not to accept personalized claims of viisions which can easily be fabricated or deluded as having merit without evidence to support them.

no-one actually gives a damn if robotic nerds like you and ozy accept or do not accept anything.
your lack of imagination and laziness for true questing, keeps you stuck in your little boxes. that is your bad luck, but your own choice. enjoy your boringness

[faye]

Knowledge and Information are things which are valid only if they're independent of people's personal biases and the only way that can happen is if it can be reproduced independently by everyone.

wrong!
valid to whom? my own personal knowledge and information is valid to me, and cannot be reproduced by anyone, as each experience that informs me, is an individual one.
how you gonna reproduce a persons personal experiences?

[ozymandias]

Science is one thing,a blind follower another....

Exactly.

[ozymandias]

prove that the idea that 'life, the universe and everything', having a deeper meaning and purpose, is a just a 'deeply flawed assumption'.

Easy. While it *might* be true, it is an unfounded assumption, thus it is a fallacy to *assume* it is true. While it might be true, it may also be false (since it has not been proven true), thus any conclusion reached while assuming it is true is suspect and potentially flawed -- thus, by definition, a logical fallacy.

that is your flawed arrogance and prejudice. perhaps you have a deeply flawed reaction against a relifgious upbringing.

Nope -- just an understanding of logic and logical fallacies.

then you have put yourself in a box, tagged, agnostic atheist.

reality for you is a dependence on a greek logic. my reality is more expansive than that. i also read my feelings and intuitions plus am not dependent on scientists to tell me what reality is or isn't. if i don't believe in the same things as you, does not mean i have no reality that i believe in. that is just your flawed assumption.

I'm not sure anyone is claiming that...

[ozymandias]

the only ones who fear beliefs, alternative to their logic and scientific discoveries are those who are insecure in their beliefs.

Exactly.

which is understandable, considering that science changes it's mind about it's conclusions, constantly.

Not quite constantly -- but yes, that's what science *IS*. It's proud of it's willingness to reject that which has been proven false.

[ozymandias]

a bunch of nerds who went to uni and were indoctrinated with a particular idea of what reality is and how to make judgements upon it, think that the rest of humanity should follow their particular way of viewing the world. through the lens of logic and microscopes.
is that not being dogmatic?

That's also not what science is...

sweetie, the real world just don't work like that.
you 2 can play all the word games you want but it will not change what others know and experience.

You are right -- which is why science is willing to look at what others know and experience, and examine it. Unlike religion, science is willing to look into the opposing view points. It's not word games -- its just communicating reality.

[ozymandias]

i don't have demons in my system of belief, so that is your projection from your own belief in demons.
i certainly have no fear of my beliefs being dislodged by science. it has a long way to go before it even understands the physical realm.

And this is why you should read a science book from the last century, and not get your science education from a book written 1500 years ago...

last week it was saying reality is NO THING, according to you, what are they saying this week?