Ask an American, agnostic and atheist man pretty much anything

[IamDZJ]

Narrated Abu Hurairah (ra): The Messenger of Allah (sa) said:
مَا مِنْ مَوْلُودٍ يُولَدُ إِلَّا عَلَى الْفِطْرَةِ فَأَبَوَاهُ يُهَوِّدَانِهِ أَوْ يُنَصِّرَانِهِ أَوْ يُمَجِّسَانِهِ،كَمَا تُنْتَجُ الْبَهِيمَةُ بَهِيمَةً جَمْعَاءَ، هَلْ تُحِسُّونَ فِيهَا مِنْ جَدْعَاءَ؟
“No child is born except in a state of Fitrah (instinct), then his parents make him a Jew or a Christian or a Zoroastrian, just as each animal produces a perfect animal like itself -- do you see any among them that are born mutilated?”
Then Abu Hurairah (ra) recited the verse:
فِطْرَةَ اللَّهِ الَّتِى فَطَرَ النَّاسَ عَلَيْهَا لاَ تَبْدِيلَ لِخَلْقِ اللَّهِ ذَلِكَ الدِّينُ الْقَيِّمُ
“[Adhere to] the fitrah of Allah upon which He has created [all] people. No change should there be in the creation of Allah. That is the correct religion...”
[Surat Ar-Rum 30:30;

every child born in the state of firtah doesn't translate in to every child is born a believer.

[kakargirl]

45. (Remember) when the angels said: "O Maryam (Mary)! Verily, Allah gives you the glad tidings of a Word ["Be!" - and he was! i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus) the son of Maryam (Mary)] from Him, his name will be the Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), held in honour in this world and in the Hereafter, and will be one of those who are near to Allah."46. "He will speak to the people in the cradle and in manhood, and he will be one of the righteous."

[IamDZJ]

yeah well you are not an angel so just because you said it i am not going to believe it. explain to me in your own words how every child can be born a believer in allah if they have no knowledge or understanding of him.

[kakargirl]

yeah well you are not an angel so just because you said it i am not going to believe it. explain to me in your own words how every child can be born a believer in allah if they have no knowledge or understanding of him.

Children are born believers in God, academic claims Children are "born believers" in God and do

not simply acquire religious beliefs through i

ndoctrination, according to an academic



Dr Justin Barrett, a senior researcher at the University of Oxford's Centre for Anthropology and Mind, claims that young people have a predisposition to believe in a supreme being because they assume that everything in the world was created with a purpose.

He says that young children have faith even when they have not been taught about it by family or at school, and argues that even those raised alone on a desert island would come to believe in God.

"The preponderance of scientific evidence for the past 10 years or so has shown that a lot more seems to be built into the natural development of children's minds than we once thought, including a predisposition to see the natural world as designed and purposeful and that some kind of intelligent being is behind that purpose," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

"If we threw a handful on an island and they raised themselves I think they would believe in God."

In a lecture to be given at the University of Cambridge's Faraday Institute on Tuesday, Dr Barrett will cite psychological experiments carried out on children that he says show they instinctively believe that almost everything has been designed with a specific purpose.



In one study, six and seven-year-olds who were asked why the first bird existed replied "to make nice music" and "because it makes the world look nice".
Another experiment on 12-month-old babies suggested that they were surprised by a film in which a rolling ball apparently created a neat stack of blocks from a disordered heap.
Dr Barrett said there is evidence that even by the age of four, children understand that although some objects are made by humans, the natural world is different.
He added that this means children are more likely to believe in creationism rather than evolution, despite what they may be told by parents or teachers.
Dr Barrett claimed anthropologists have found that in some cultures children believe in God even when religious teachings are withheld from them.
"Children's normally and naturally developing minds make them prone to believe in divine creation and intelligent design. In contrast, evolution is unnatural for human minds; relatively difficult to believe

[IamDZJ]

yeah boogeyman is their satan and santa claus their God. of course we don't have those two back where we come from because we are never given a chance to think up our own idea of what God might be. it's considered blasphemy to even think otherwise. to believe in a greater form of evil and goodness is part of human nature. it doesn't necessarily mean one has belief in God.
if we were all born believers in God than there would be no need for anyone to preach us further.
someone didn't bother to explain what being born in a state of fitrah meant so he gave you the short cut or you thought it up for yourself because being born in a state of fitrah does not mean you are born a believer in God (allah).
it is a pity how so many of you muslims grow up in such a wishy washy wold with such ridiculous ideas of what islam is. maybe if you didn't raise your children as a bunch of brainwashed cows, the world would have more respect for islam and muslims.

[kakargirl]

yeah boogeyman is their satan and santa claus their God. of course we don't have those two back where we come from because we are never given a chance to think up our own idea of what God might be. it's considered blasphemy to even think otherwise. to believe in a greater form of evil and goodness is part of human nature. it doesn't necessarily mean one has belief in God.
if we were all born believers in God than there would be no need for anyone to preach us further.
someone didn't bother to explain what being born in a state of fitrah meant so he gave you the short cut or you thought it up for yourself because being born in a state of fitrah does not mean you are born a believer in God (allah).
it is a pity how so many of you muslims grow up in such a wishy washy wold with such ridiculous ideas of what islam is. maybe if you didn't raise your children as a bunch of brainwashed cows in a cattle, the world would have more respect for islam and muslims.

Believer is purity ,free of sin, a child is free of sin a parent society turns a child a into what ever they later become, the main thing is the soul the soul is created way before the child was born or created, they say you can't stop the souls that allah swt has destined to come into the world ,the soul is the believer but over time with the wrong surroundings the child grows up starts to sin it needs guidance to bring it back to right path so if everyone was innocent we wouldn't need anything everything would be pure and simple , but we lose our purity our innocence as we out grow our childhood, that's when we are accountable for our sins before that we are natural believers ,naturally pure and simple free of sin.


So if you look at it the child is the best believer among us, a child's prayer is accepted far more better than a adult's who's thinking all sort's in that all sorts we doubt things we think malice jealousy vilolence ect: the sins are endless

[tor_khan]

Ozymandias. I've often wondered if we take one scientific viewpoint that life is just a chance thing that happened on this planet but that all it comes down to is bags of chemical reactions. On this planet that is part of a solar system/galaxy expanding out into vast universal space along some haphazard evolutionary path, why should we bother with human-made concepts that don't affect the inevitability of the power of the universe?

Why would humans care about each other or the survival of the planet? What is it to be driven by conscience? That's what separates us from other life forms. Animals/plants for example don't have a conscience like people do. Arguably they are just bags of chemicals that happen to be 'alive', but humans are more than that. So what is conscience if some aspect of it is not about searching for God?

[kakargirl]

A: Indeed Allah has the knowledge of The Hour (time of the Day of Judgment) and He sends down the rain and He knows what is in the wombs (before the fetus is made) and no soul knows what is going to earn tomorrow (what will happen) and no soul knows in what land it is going to die; Indeed Allah is All-Knowledgeable, All-Expert.
Translation of: Ayah 34, Surat Luqman.
Words: Indahu = He has, Ilm = Knowledge, AlSa'ah = The Hour - Day of Judgment, Yunazil = Sends down, Ghay(s)th = Rain, Ya'lam = Knows, Ar'ham = Wombs, Tadri = Knows, Nafs = Soul, Taksib = Earns, Ghad = Tomorrow, Ardh = Land, Tamout = Dies.

[IamDZJ]

Believer is purity ,free of sin, a child is free of sin innocent, free of sin and pure but not a believer a parent society turns a child a into what ever they later become, the main thing is the soul the soul is created way before the child was born or created, they say you can't stop the souls that allah swt has destined to come into the world ,the soul is the believer but over time with the wrong surroundings the child grows up starts to sin it needs guidance to bring it back to right path so if everyone was innocent we wouldn't need anything everything would be pure and simple , but we lose our purity our innocence as we out grow our childhood, that's when we are accountable for our sins before that we are natural believers ,naturally pure and simple free of sin.


So if you look at it the child is the best believer among us, a child's prayer is accepted far more better than a adult's who's thinking all sort's in that all sorts we doubt things we think malice jealousy vilolence ect: the sins are endless[/QUOTE] irrelevant

A: Indeed Allah has the knowledge of The Hour (time of the Day of Judgment) and He sends down the rain and He knows what is in the wombs (before the fetus is made) and no soul knows what is going to earn tomorrow (what will happen) and no soul knows in what land it is going to die; Indeed Allah is All-Knowledgeable, All-Expert.
Translation of: Ayah 34, Surat Luqman.
Words: Indahu = He has, Ilm = Knowledge, AlSa'ah = The Hour - Day of Judgment, Yunazil = Sends down, Ghay(s)th = Rain, Ya'lam = Knows, Ar'ham = Wombs, Tadri = Knows, Nafs = Soul, Taksib = Earns, Ghad = Tomorrow, Ardh = Land, Tamout = Dies.

but i thought we were all given an equal chance to redeem ourselves..

long story shot, children are not born believers in islam or God. they are pious and innocent no doubt but that is about it.
good night

[kakargirl]

Believer is purity ,free of sin, a child is free of sin innocent, free of sin and pure but not a believer a parent society turns a child a into what ever they later become, the main thing is the soul the soul is created way before the child was born or created, they say you can't stop the souls that allah swt has destined to come into the world ,the soul is the believer but over time with the wrong surroundings the child grows up starts to sin it needs guidance to bring it back to right path so if everyone was innocent we wouldn't need anything everything would be pure and simple , but we lose our purity our innocence as we out grow our childhood, that's when we are accountable for our sins before that we are natural believers ,naturally pure and simple free of sin.


So if you look at it the child is the best believer among us, a child's prayer is accepted far more better than a adult's who's thinking all sort's in that all sorts we doubt things we think malice jealousy vilolence ect: the sins are endless

irrelevant


but i thought we were all given an equal chance to redeem ourselves..

long story shot, children are not born believers in islam or God. they are pious and innocent no doubt but that is about it.
good night[/QUOTE]What is a believer , it means not to think up sin, why do we prayer whats in the salah we read, in all the salahs we read in arabic we are asking allah swt to guide us ,to purify us ,to make us better people ,to stop the sins we do or think, so there children are the natural purity free of sin what causes disaster sin if we are free of sin we are believers we wont cause harm to no one we wont commit any wrong.

[IamDZJ]

irrelevant


but i thought we were all given an equal chance to redeem ourselves..

long story shot, children are not born believers in islam or God. they are pious and innocent no doubt but that is about it.
good night

What is a believer , it means not to think up sin, why do we prayer whats in the salah we read, in all the salahs we read in arabic we are asking allah swt to guide us ,to purify us ,to make us better people ,to stop the sins we do or think, so there children are the natural purity free of sin what causes disaster sin if we are free of sin we are believers we wont cause harm to no one we wont commit any wrong.[/QUOTE]

awal kalima duwayum lmunz dreyum roja saloram zakat penzum haj...
five pillars of islam..you can't be a muslim if you don't acknowledge and practice those regardless of how sinless your lifestyle is or will be.
you sound like cayta sher...children this.. children that. GET REAL.

[kakargirl]

What is a believer , it means not to think up sin, why do we prayer whats in the salah we read, in all the salahs we read in arabic we are asking allah swt to guide us ,to purify us ,to make us better people ,to stop the sins we do or think, so there children are the natural purity free of sin what causes disaster sin if we are free of sin we are believers we wont cause harm to no one we wont commit any wrong.

awal kalima duwayum lmunz dreyum roja saloram zakat penzum haj...
five pillars of islam..you can't be a muslim if you don't acknowledge and practice those regardless of how sinless your lifestyle is or will be.
you sound like cayta sher...children this.. children that. GET REAL.[/QUOTE]who said you can be a muslim with out these things, basically what are these things well again to keep order in one self to remain on the right path zakat to think of poor to help them,salah to prayer to remain pure ask for protection from satan,Roza to fast to feel others hunger and learn to be humble,kalimah again being under allah swt protection believing in the almighty the one that will save you the one that created you and sent his messenger prophet Muhammed pbuh to give the message to help you stay on right path, and final hajj to enjoy travel and to submit one self to feel what it will be like on the day of judgement when everyone will be gathered .

[IamDZJ]

awal kalima duwayum lmunz dreyum roja saloram zakat penzum haj...
five pillars of islam..you can't be a muslim if you don't acknowledge and practice those regardless of how sinless your lifestyle is or will be.
you sound like cayta sher...children this.. children that. GET REAL.

who said you can be a muslim with out these things, basically what are these things well again to keep order in one self to remain on the right path zakat to think of poor to help them,salah to prayer to remain pure ask for protection from satan,Roza to fast to feel others hunger and learn to be humble,kalimah again being under allah swt protection believing in the almighty the one that will save you the one that created you and sent his messenger prophet Muhammed pbuh to give the message to help you stay on right path, and final hajj to enjoy travel and to submit one self to feel what it will be like on the day of judgement when everyone will be gathered .[/QUOTE]

how about you stick to what you have to say rather then repeating what i am saying so i dont end up getting a headache as the result of going around in circles with you??
ukkhhh,

[ozymandias]

Basically ozy basis his belief in gravity on blind faith in a science which he himself doesn't understand. He didn't need to be convinced that gravity is a force, but he has to be convinced that God created him.

Please stop making up lies. This is not even remotely true.

He either deliberately doesn't want to understand Pascal's wager, or his subconcious mind cannot accept that the wager only applies to One God, and not many gods.

Unfortunately, you are wrong. The Wager is equally true, no matter *what* you put into the 'god' portion. You use the word 'cat', and the Wager argues that you should worship a cat.

If he can't even bother to know the difference between polytheism and monotheism, and how the wager only applies to one and not the other, then why bother with such self deceptive laziness?

Only one of use is being self deceptive -- and it appears to be you.

So I googled = belief + choice and a whole list of references to atheist sites popped up. It appears that it is a central tenant of atheism to believe that "belief is not a choice". Of course, years of psycho babble and aggressive marketing by the pharmaceutical companies has everyone in the west convinced that their depression is not their choice, and not as a result of their way of thinking.

Depression is not a belief, let alone a choice. Please stick to one topic with your arguments.

They have us convinced that we are by nature irrational beings and so we act on baser impulses. The most archaic of which is the belief that ozy is himself a demi god of a sort - which is why he believes that in his company a whole number of demi gods work towards a defined objective and succeed - I suppose success here is quantified by montary compensation - I forgot how zues paid posidon or apollo.

... what? This is just gibberish. Why are you claiming that I think I am a demigod?

I will say this in passing, the human rights commission here in canada is an absolute failure. The supreme court has now allowed for the opening of heroine shooting galleries in vancouver. Soon they will even supply the drugs for the addicts - because they have the right to life, liberty and security.

....?

[ozymandias]

There is back as all babies are born believers

Actually, all babies are born non-believers. They have to be taught religion by adults. This is why Mohammad had to exist -- no one is born even knowing the first thing about religion.

,what they become is up to themselves, so ozy there is a back i hope one day you do find your way back.

Nope, no 'back'.

“Allah chooses for Himself whom He pleases, and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him) [42:13].”“Allah knows best where He places His message [6:124].”