Ask an American, agnostic and atheist man pretty much anything

[faye]

I never said point out a fallacy is a straw man, I'm saying I'm point out your fallacy which is a straw-man

try to not lose control. your spelling is deficient, when you do that.

[faye]

That's irrelevant since you're not Muslim or ever were ..which is proven.

no, it is not proven.
you have no proof of anything you keep espousing. you really have lost the plot now, kiddo.

[faye]

sand is not created by waves and there is no proof that waves are not intelligent. if they are an aspect of god, then they can contain the intelligence of god, which may explain their behaviour, of being waves.

ozy, see that little word there.....IF?
do you know what that means?
that means, i am putting forward a possibility. not actually making a claim that waves are intelligent, that you claim i have made.
i have made the claim that they can contain the intelligence of god, IF they are an aspect of god, which i cannot prove, but i like the idea.

isn't putting forth possibilities, what is done in science and logic? ideas and imaginings of possibilities, that you then explore?

[Admin Khan]

Thank you. It's difficult to maintain a civil conversation with that going on.




I thought I did a decent job answering this here:


Could you expand upon what you feel was missing from my answer?

I addressed:
1) The shape of the Earth was known in vague terms prior to the authoring of the Koran (and parts of the Old Testament)

Let's dissect what you said portion by portion:

Muslims believe in the old testament, along with all the Holy books sent prior to it. So if it was mentioned in a Holy book, that still affirms my point. Given that there hundreds of other facts from the Quran and other books, what does this tell you?

[کیش]

Since you don't seem to get it:
Please provide evidence that Mohammad was the most evil sinner, liar, and tool of the Devil to ever live.

I don't believe that, nor do I think you believe it -- but you keep asking me to prove something *I DON"T BELIEVE*.

Nope. I'm atheist because I don't see any convincing evidence that theism is true. You are theist because you have been convinced by what ever evidence you have seen -- and refuse to look at that evidence critically.

I am atheist because I see no evidence of a god or gods. Thus I don't believe in them.

I am agnostic, because I understand that the supernatural exists outside of science, and thus cannot be proven *NOR DISPROVEN* by science.

You are asking me to provide evidence *FOR SOMETHING I DO NOT BELIEVE*. I will not do that. Just as I do not see evidence for the existence of a god, or gods, I do *NOT* see evidence for their non-existence, so stop asking me to provide it.

Good thing that's not why I am agnostic, then, isn't it?

Good thing that's not what I am saying, then, isn't it? I am not, nor ever do, say that. I simply say that do not see any evidence that a god, or gods exist. I never stated I can prove they do not exist, nor that I believe that they do not exist. I simply *do not hold they belief that they do*.

I do not state evidence or experiments to support the claim that the existence of a god is impossible *BECAUSE SUCH EVIDENCE IS IMPOSSIBLE*. You cannot prove no god exists, because there is no scientifically falsifiable definition of 'god'. In order to prove something does not exist, you need to have a definition that can be proven true or false. Period. You cannot disprove the claim 'god exists' because no one has *ever* described god in scientific terms.

Get it? I'm tired of repeatedly telling you this. You need to read my replies and stop pretending I have not made them.

I'm going to start asking you to prove Mohammad was the most evil person to ever live every time you ask me to prove god does not exist -- not to be offensive, but to point out the absurdity of your claim.

(A note to all readers: I do *NOT* think Mohammad was the most evil person to ever live. He did some things that I do not agree with, but he was not evil, and some of the things he did, I respect. I am asking that question to make an example of how stupid asking me to disprove god is.


AGAIN: I DO NOT MEAN ANY DISRESPECT TO MOHAMMAD)

P.S. I already pointed this post out to the moderators. I mentioned 'Mohammad', and I am aware that I get reported for doing so. Edits will be made if Admin Khan thinks they are needed.

Man, you really do not know anything but are as stubborn to ignorance believing like the Pharoah. Just like what I said to you earlier. But remember, Pharoah said he believed in the God of Hebrews when the oceans were already drowning him, making it too late.

Socrates proselytized that there wasn't many God's but the god. His fellow Greeks still executed him because of the same excuses you are making.

[ozymandias]

Let's dissect what you said portion by portion:

Muslims believe in the old testament, along with all the Holy books sent prior to it. So if it was mentioned in a Holy book, that still affirms my point. Given that there hundreds of other facts from the Quran and other books, what does this tell you?

I'm not sure what you are asking. I am not saying that they contradict the Koran, just that there was nothing *new* about the Koran claiming the Earth was round -- it was a know fact at that time.

[ozymandias]

Man, you really do not know anything but are as stubborn to ignorance believing like the Pharoah.

Feel free to believe that.

Just like what I said to you earlier. But remember, Pharoah said he believed in the God of Hebrews when the oceans were already drowning him, making it too late.

And the lorax said he spoke for the trees.

Socrates proselytized that there wasn't many God's but the god. His fellow Greeks still executed him because of the same excuses you are making.

I'm making no excuses. Please prove that Mohammad is the most evil person to ever live. Again, I don't believe that, nor do I think you do -- I'm asking you to prove something you don't believe, exactly what you are asking me to do.

[Manzareh]

I am atheist because I see no evidence of a god or gods. Thus I don't believe in them.

I am agnostic, because I understand that the supernatural exists outside of science, and thus cannot be proven *NOR DISPROVEN* by science.

Ozzy, Islam/religions are based a 'faith' not evidence. Why do you understand the supernatural existance outside of science? what evidence have you seen of supernatural existance?

[Afghanistan2010]

A serious question :

What was before the Big Bang ?

[ozymandias]

Ozzy, Islam/religions are based a 'faith' not evidence.

Fair enough. I understand that many people value blind faith. I was raised to value logic, intelligence, and rationality over blind faith, to never assume something is true, just because someone told me it was.

While faith may be enough for you, it's not enough for me. If your god did exist (which I don't believe), and he did create me (again, for the quote miners, I don't believe that), I would require more than blind following due to how they created me (again, I don't believe that).

Why do you understand the supernatural existance outside of science?

That's the definition of the word:
su·per·nat·u·ral

/ˌso͞opərˈnaCH(ə)rəl/
Adjective
(of a manifestation or event) Attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

what evidence have you seen of supernatural existance?

Nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

I have never seen any evidence that anything supernatural exists.

[ozymandias]

A serious question :

What was before the Big Bang ?

Current theory believes one of the following existed 'before' the Big Bang:
Big Crunch (fallen slightly out of favor)
Singularity
Nothing

We are not quite sure what was there, since multiple theories fit the known evidence, which is why we are trying to dig up more evidence -- to rule one or more of the theories out.

[Afghanistan2010]

So just speculations ?

Since we know that time and space started with the Big Bang,what caused it,and where did the mass come from,and what was before it ?


Many questions my friend you and your fellow friends will never be able to answer.

[ozymandias]

So just speculations ?

Nope.

Since we know that time and space started with the Big Bang,

We don't know that.

what caused it,and where did the mass come from,and what was before it ?

See my last reply. The current three theories I am aware of are singularity, Big Crunch, and 'Nothing'.

Many questions my friend you and your fellow friends will never be able to answer.

Not necessarily true. More progress has been made to answer these questions in the last year than the last 200,000 years by religion.

[Afghanistan2010]

Dear you might have knowledge in evolution and other crap,
but i have contact to high ranking profs,working for NASA,they have the consensus and the knowledge that time and space began with the Big Bang.

[ozymandias]

Dear you might have knowledge in evolution and other crap,
but i have contact to high ranking profs,working for NASA,they have the consensus and the knowledge that time and space began with the Big Bang.

This fallacy is called 'Argument from Authority'.

You can't have it both ways. While no outside observer could exist (by definition), and thus time could not possibly exist, when discussing the Big Bang, it is *very* common to discuss it in terms of 'before', and 'after' -- otherwise questions such as " What was before the Big Bang ?" make no sense. Without time, 'before' has no meaning. It would be like me asking you 'what existed before god' -- it's a useless, silly question, with no useful answer.

If you take a quick google, you will see that this term is *frequently* used, despite the fact that technically time did not exist prior to the big bang.