How to stop Salafi Jihadism?

[Karachi]

We all know most of these terrorists groups are Salafi extremist Jihadis, they are giving muslims and Islam such a bad name, they are not muslims. How can they be stopped. I think Salafi s should just be banned altogether, or be deported to their mother land, Saudi Arabia. Theyes have single handedly destroyed Islam from inside and real message of Islam has been lost

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

We all know most of these terrorists groups are Salafi extremist Jihadis, they are giving muslims and Islam such a bad name, they are not muslims. How can they be stopped. I think Salafi s should just be banned altogether, or be deported to their mother land, Saudi Arabia. Theyes have single handedly destroyed Islam from inside and real message of Islam has been lost

When people start off by saying "we All know" it basically means they are just going to reproduce garbage they have been fed by the media.

you are saying they are not Muslim? What is their kufr? And where is your evidence? Can you also be more specific about who Salafi jihadis are?

To my knowledge, all ideologues of Salafi Jihadism are from Egypt. It is essentially an Egyptian ideology developed by prisoners in the torture chambers of Nasser, Sadat and Mubarak.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

We all know most of these terrorists groups are Salafi extremist Jihadis, they are giving muslims and Islam such a bad name, they are not muslims. How can they be stopped. I think Salafi s should just be banned altogether, or be deported to their mother land, Saudi Arabia. Theyes have single handedly destroyed Islam from inside and real message of Islam has been lost

The answer is easy man, and evidence based.

In The West:

1. Most of the times if you look at it, across the world children carry forward the conflicts their parents lived. Serbs in America have issues with Croatians and Bosniaks etc.

If you look at it, often times secularized parents even in dinner table conversation recall the politics and problems of their homelands.

This invariably gets passed on to the kids. There is some study out there that talks about how multiculturalism leads to different ethnic groups sort of digging in their heels - and that probably happens in that no matter how assimilated - second generation immigrants still have a sense of being different.

If you could get immigrants/expats to never ever ever discuss their autobiography or dinner table politics - you might create a generation that has no sense of the issues going on back home.

Eventually time also takes care of this. Irish Americans (Catholics) had a huge issue earlier on when they first came over regarding Protestants vs Catholics but by the 3rd generation thats sort of died out.

But basically, children invariably see the world through their parents eyes and whatever ism (marxism, etc) that they reach for is a galvanizing movement to continue work against what they view were historical wrongs in their homeland.

Some of why this is problematic can be seen in the recent Iraq Wars and in how Iranian emigres want to get their adopted countries to drop munitions on their native lands.

2. How to handle the issue back home and get rid of its galvanizing effect. Even fools like this get it man. You may be in denial, but you got academics, CIA agents, renowned researchers all echoing Maher:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL5XXcDN3n0

[BarakzaiAbdali]

When people start off by saying "we All know" it basically means they are just going to reproduce garbage they have been fed by the media.

you are saying they are not Muslim? What is their kufr? And where is your evidence? Can you also be more specific about who Salafi jihadis are?

To my knowledge, all ideologues of Salafi Jihadism are from Egypt. It is essentially an Egyptian ideology developed by prisoners in the torture chambers of Nasser, Sadat and Mubarak.

These people have no sense of history man. Dont waste your time. Its like talking to a wall. Have you ever heard them concede an iota in the face of countless piles of evidence?

Instead they generate retarded conspiracy mongering theories that also attempt to take on an antiimperial narrative that says:
The US created all of the Islamic resistance movements everywhere at teh same time.

While it may be true that America and Israel and Britain used and abused people for their own ends - the development of an insurgency can be mutally exclusive from the CIA and simply being a temporary alignment of goals.

For example, if a group of Chechans hate Russia and the CIA wants to capitalize on that - they may egg those folks on or arm them or whatever - but the support and manpower is still due to real historical grievances. And as we see now in the new post 2001 era there is often a realignment against the folks they originally supported.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

These people have no sense of history man. Dont waste your time. Its like talking to a wall. Have you ever heard them concede an iota in the face of countless piles of evidence?

Instead they generate retarded conspiracy mongering theories that also attempt to take on an antiimperial narrative that says:
The US created all of the Islamic resistance movements everywhere at teh same time.

While it may be true that America and Israel and Britain used and abused people for their own ends - the development of an insurgency can be mutally exclusive from the CIA and simply being a temporary alignment of goals.

For example, if a group of Chechans hate Russia and the CIA wants to capitalize on that - they may egg those folks on or arm them or whatever - but the support and manpower is still due to real historical grievances. And as we see now in the new post 2001 era there is often a realignment against the folks they originally supported.

I agree. There are true grievances and then there are misguided people who use grievances as a motor to push their agenda which may be pure evil.

Why would people who spent decades in s secular nationalist party like Ba'ath suddenly decide to repent, grow beards and join Al Qaeda in Iraq in order to become worst zealots of all time?

[Badlun]

We all know most of these terrorists groups are Salafi extremist Jihadis, they are giving muslims and Islam such a bad name, they are not muslims. How can they be stopped. I think Salafi s should just be banned altogether, or be deported to their mother land, Saudi Arabia. Theyes have single handedly destroyed Islam from inside and real message of Islam has been lost

You are wrong. Salafi Jihadis are the real Islamist Muslims. They are implementing Quran in letter and spirit. they are following the model of Muhammad. If you want to stop them, stop Islam or better said Islamism. Only Sufi Islam can survive in this modern era. Wahabi Salafi Islam is a curse and stigma on the face of humanity.

Salafis do not destroy Islam. They show to the world the real face of Islamism. This si what a true Muslim must do who want to implement Quran and Hadith of 1400 years back in today's 21st century. As Ayaan Hars Ali says, to save the world from the scourge of the terrorism , you must reform Islam.

[Badlun]

When people start off by saying "we All know" it basically means they are just going to reproduce garbage they have been fed by the media.

you are saying they are not Muslim? What is their kufr? And where is your evidence? Can you also be more specific about who Salafi jihadis are?

To my knowledge, all ideologues of Salafi Jihadism are from Egypt. It is essentially an Egyptian ideology developed by prisoners in the torture chambers of Nasser, Sadat and Mubarak.

Yes. What is their Kufr? They offer prayers, say Shahadah, pay Zakat, may go to Hajj, keep fast, and act upon Quran and Hadith to compel non Muslims to convert to Islam, or pay Jizya or ready to be killed. jihad is the 6th pillar of Islam and mandatory in Quran and Hadith. Amar bil maroof and nahi anil munkar is duty of every Muslim.

[Karachi]

You are wrong. Salafi Jihadis are the real Islamist Muslims. They are implementing Quran in letter and spirit. they are following the model of Muhammad. If you want to stop them, stop Islam or better said Islamism. Only Sufi Islam can survive in this modern era. Wahabi Salafi Islam is a curse and stigma on the face of humanity.

Salafis do not destroy Islam. They show to the world the real face of Islamism. This si what a true Muslim must do who want to implement Quran and Hadith of 1400 years back in today's 21st century. As Ayaan Hars Ali says, to save the world from the scourge of the terrorism , you must reform Islam.

Maybe so, but I seriously think prophet/sahabas weren't this violent, even in the latter stages in Medina, Isis are violent Salafi criminal thugs, who hide under the name of Islam to do their crimes

[Karachi]

When people start off by saying "we All know" it basically means they are just going to reproduce garbage they have been fed by the media.

you are saying they are not Muslim? What is their kufr? And where is your evidence? Can you also be more specific about who Salafi jihadis are?

To my knowledge, all ideologues of Salafi Jihadism are from Egypt. It is essentially an Egyptian ideology developed by prisoners in the torture chambers of Nasser, Sadat and Mubarak.

All of these modern terrorists groups are Salafis, the people who are brainwashing new converts to do terrorism are Salafis, admit it man, There is a lot mess and violence in the ideology you follow.

[Karachi]

The answer is easy man, and evidence based.

In The West:

1. Most of the times if you look at it, across the world children carry forward the conflicts their parents lived. Serbs in America have issues with Croatians and Bosniaks etc.

If you look at it, often times secularized parents even in dinner table conversation recall the politics and problems of their homelands.

This invariably gets passed on to the kids. There is some study out there that talks about how multiculturalism leads to different ethnic groups sort of digging in their heels - and that probably happens in that no matter how assimilated - second generation immigrants still have a sense of being different.

If you could get immigrants/expats to never ever ever discuss their autobiography or dinner table politics - you might create a generation that has no sense of the issues going on back home.

Eventually time also takes care of this. Irish Americans (Catholics) had a huge issue earlier on when they first came over regarding Protestants vs Catholics but by the 3rd generation thats sort of died out.

But basically, children invariably see the world through their parents eyes and whatever ism (marxism, etc) that they reach for is a galvanizing movement to continue work against what they view were historical wrongs in their homeland.

Some of why this is problematic can be seen in the recent Iraq Wars and in how Iranian emigres want to get their adopted countries to drop munitions on their native lands.

2. How to handle the issue back home and get rid of its galvanizing effect. Even fools like this get it man. You may be in denial, but you got academics, CIA agents, renowned researchers all echoing Maher:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL5XXcDN3n0

What does all that have to with random attacks these groups are carrying out? Your the one who is denying the violent nature of these Salafi groups. If Isis is a product of Sunni Shia hatred in Iraq, Syria, then they should only be targeting Assad and his army, yet we can see they target anybody, anywhere. Their goal is their Salafi Khilafat across the world, anybody can go visit their website and see, so you are fooling no one

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

What does all that have to with random attacks these groups are carrying out? Your the one who is denying the violent nature of these Salafi groups. If Isis is a product of Sunni Shia hatred in Iraq, Syria, then they should only be targeting Assad and his army, yet we can see they target anybody, anywhere. Their goal is their Salafi Khilafat across the world, anybody can go visit their website and see, so you are fooling no one

Isis has a website? Do you have the url?

[Bengal_Tiger]

All of these modern terrorists groups are Salafis, the people who are brainwashing new converts to do terrorism are Salafis, admit it man, There is a lot mess and violence in the ideology you follow.

There is a lot I could say about this, but perhaps more in the future. A more detailed and systematic, longer post. However for the time being suffice to say the situation is not as bleak as it may appear as most Muslim countries are not controlled by "Islamists" but by the sort of people that Salafi-Jihadis would call "kuffar" (disbelievers), "murtadeen" (apostates). The only country in the world where they have any real power to implement their ideology is in their homeland of "Saudi Arabia" or greater Najd to give it its proper name (the other provinces of Saudi Arabia are under Najdi hegemony), and even there they are losing support.

The recent chaos in the middle east in the past few years has unfortunately led many to extreme secularism even atheism as a rejection of this backwards violent fundamentalism.

Muslim countries:

1st largest Muslim country: Indonesia - secular (official ideology Pancasila, stressing harmony of religions).

3rd largest Bangladesh: - secular, called the "People's Republic of Bangladesh". Not many Salafis there, and the Jamaat e "Islami" are being systematically destroyed under the current government.

4th largest, Egypt (I have excluded Nigeria as it is multi-religious): - secular, "Islamists" have never held any real power in the history of the modern Egytpian Republic bar Morsi's short stint, kicked out of power by the military.

5th largest, Iran: - fundamentalist radical neo-Safawi/Persian chauvinist, an exception to the rule.

6th largest, Turkey: - secular, decades of state enforced secularism leading to widespread atheism and rejection of Islam per se especially in Thrace and the Aegean.

7th largest, Algeria: - secular, run by the military. Defeated a Salafist-"Islamist" insurgency in the 1990s. Stopped the heavily Salafi influenced FIS from taking power in the 1990s.

8th largest Morocco: - secular kingdom, officially non-Salafi i.e. Ashari in theology (aqeedah), Maliki in fiqh (Islamic jurispudence), Sufi in "manhaj" (way/methodology).

Malaysia: secular, federal state.


Central Asian states + Azerbaijan: secular neo-communist states

It is only in Iran and Saudi Arabia where the state stones women for adultery (not in the Quran)

"Salafis" actually enjoy very little political, state or military power but are more of a nuisance. The embarrassment factor they cause to Muslims is of course heightened by heavily disproportionate media attention given to them for their atrocities. In real terms however they have very little power, though they do carry out terrorism and cause instability, and are now in an insurgency in Syria.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

What does all that have to with random attacks these groups are carrying out?

They aren't random. Most analysts are noting that the ones done in the West are provocations - its their attempt to lure various western nations into another quagmire.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-is-isis-so-intent-on-provoking-the-west/2014/11/26/b022155a-70fd-11e4-8808-afaa1e3a33ef_story.html

Your the one who is denying the violent nature of these Salafi groups.

Hardly. Rather I am pointing out that their violence is the violence that war creates. When you prolong wars of attrition like this - its a darwinistic process and the most rugged, vicious, and bold groups rise to the top.

If Isis is a product of Sunni Shia hatred in Iraq, Syria, then they should only be targeting Assad and his army,

That's retarded. Its more complex than that. If you read the genesis of the group and its current leader here in this excellently done expose:

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/07/was-camp-bucca-pressure-cooker-extremism

You will see that it is historically the result of a few factors:
1) Dis-enfranchised Iraqi Sunnis who had seen the brunt of violence from Iranian backed militias and watched Fallujah get invaded and destroyed some 3 times.

2) Iraqi former military men who melted away when the US disbanded the former Iraqi Army

3) Former Zarqawi affiliates who melded with the above

Instead, their approach to vengeance was going to be a winner takes all going after anyone and everyone that collaborated with the outside power that put Shiites on top in Bhagdad (this would include shiites, some sunni tribal leaders, some Yazidi tribal leaders, Kurds, etc).


yet we can see they target anybody, anywhere.

Saudi probably also backed them to some extent as a counterweight to Iran's influence in Iraq next door.

Their goal is their Salafi Khilafat across the world, anybody can go visit their website and see, so you are fooling no one

There is no need to fool a fool, its already inherent to you. Where does the "khilifat" actually have its base? In parts of Syria no longer occupied by Assad's Alawite/Baathist regime and parts of Sunni Iraq alongside some minor seized territory. They have some small outposts in Afghanistan now after 15 years of war and in Sinai.

The other rebel groups and the original AQ get in skirmishes with them. But at the end of the day, there would be no ISIS had there not been an Iraq War. Those ingredients above created the ripe environment for the movement. As soon as everyone leaves, and keeps their big heads out of the region, sunni Saudi and Sunni tribal leaders in Iraq as well as Jordan and other countries will be forced to deal with Daesh since they would have to turn their guns on that creation.



Here is the dhulaim tribal leader explaining his support for Daesh initially:
http://rudaw.net/english/interview/06072014

heikh Hatem al-Suleiman: I’m very surprised by the media attention the so-called Islamic State has received. We don’t care if ISIS scares other nations. Our experience in Anbar with Al-Qaeda in 2006 is a perfect example of our ability to deal with ISIS. We’ve postponed fighting ISIS until we get rid of Nouri al-Maliki. As for the Anbar tribes, we consider Maliki to be more dangerous than ISIS.

With your backwards approach you will call in the cavalry to pretty much jail and torture anyone referred to as "salafi" which is a wide swath of the gulf and even egyptian population which would in turn result in MORE support for Daesh instead of less since some salafites actually refer to Daesh as Kharij currently who are "attempting to shake the throne." And those that are smart would just melt away and get even more radical like is happening in Egypt to the former Ikhwan.

x

[Insight]

LOL @Karachi

why do you guys not condemn both Sunni extremists AND Shia extremists ? Why are you just hung up on Sunni ones?

Why don't you go to some Iran forum? Or some Desi Shia forum?

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Because kuffar love one another for the sake of their kufr and animosity to islam