Atheist pashtun thread part 2 !

[Brown Skinned Savage]

For being a Muslim you need the five pillars as mentioned above. For being Islamist you need not to criticize nothing as you mentioned. I am Muslim Sufi not an Islamist. Osho is also a follower of Sufism so he is my hero and guru. For me hell and paradise are mental or spiritual concepts not concrete places so if I am spiritually strong, I or my soul will be never burnt in any fire after death.

Neither you nor Osho are Sufis since neither of you have an ijaza from a Tariqah, You need Ijaza to be a Sufi


Also in the past some of your statements implies you reject the 5 Pillars since you reject fasting as obligation.

Therefore by your admission here you cannot be Muslim by the standard you are arguing.

[Badlun]

Neither you nor Osho are Sufis since neither of you have an ijaza from a Tariqah, You need Ijaza to be a Sufi


Also in the past some of your statements implies you reject the 5 Pillars since you reject fasting as obligation.

Therefore by your admission here you cannot be Muslim by the standard you are arguing.

You dont know whether Osho or I have Ijaza or not. I may belong to any silsila under a ghauth or murshid or wali or guru. In spiritual matters ritual and forms do not matter.
I consuder fasting as a good spiritual exercize but not obligatory. I had proved it even from Quran. Similarly Salat is spirutual not ritual. Zakat can be used for spiritual purpises as tazkiya nafs and tazkiya mal but not creating more beggars. Hajj only once and as spiritual tourism but there can be other places also for spiritual tourism like Mazar Sharif,Qum,Multan etc.

[Badlun]

The only place Atheist and Agnostic show up is behind a computer screen. 99.9% of people from Khost will beat the **** out of you for even daring to represent the name Khostai. Whether Taliban based or not you have 0 relevance in Pashtun society. You are a nobody, your opinions mean nothing. A kafir therefore every pashtun household views you as a worthless swine, most likely you are an outcast from your own family also... its the truth, think about it.

This is what is our challenge. This is our goal to make Pashtun society more tolerant liberal democratic open and creative. If infidels tolerate Muslim Pashtuns even bigots then why Pashtun should not tolerate non Muslims. Being Pashtun is not concomitant to being a Muslim. I know many many Pashtuns who are not Muslims . Millions who are not Islamists.
Because of this ignorance and intolerance Pashtun live in caves not in a civilized world. Taliban and Mullahs are their leaders not intellectuals ,scholars,scientists and politicians.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

You dont know whether Osho or I have Ijaza or not. I may belong to any silsila under a ghauth or murshid or wali or guru. In spiritual matters ritual and forms do not matter.
I consuder fasting as a good spiritual exercize but not obligatory. I had proved it even from Quran. Similarly Salat is spirutual not ritual. Zakat can be used for spiritual purpises as tazkiya nafs and tazkiya mal but not creating more beggars. Hajj only once and as spiritual tourism but there can be other places also for spiritual tourism like Mazar Sharif,Qum,Multan etc.

I know because both you and Osho disregard the fundamentals of Sufi Path so you cannot get an ijaza by disregarding the fundamentals.

You can be Spiritual, but this is not same as Being Sufi, Sufi is a higher rank, Sufi is deeper than being Spiritual, Sufi has Qurb Allah, you don't have Qurb


Actually you just disproved that fasting is an option in this discussion by saying that To be Muslim you have to accept 5 Pillars, One of the Pillars is fasting, which means it's an obligation and not an option. If it was a choice then there are only 4 pillars.

So by your own admission you cannot be a Muslim since you reject the 5 Pillars.

[Manzareh]

You dont know whether Osho or I have Ijaza or not. I may belong to any silsila under a ghauth or murshid or wali or guru. In spiritual matters ritual and forms do not matter.
I consuder fasting as a good spiritual exercize but not obligatory. I had proved it even from Quran. Similarly Salat is spirutual not ritual. Zakat can be used for spiritual purpises as tazkiya nafs and tazkiya mal but not creating more beggars. Hajj only once and as spiritual tourism but there can be other places also for spiritual tourism like Mazar Sharif,Qum,Multan etc.

On one hand you are saying you need 5 pillars to be a Muslim and on another hand you don't believe in the 5 pillars to be obligatory. Basically in your own words you are not a Muslim.

[Manzareh]

This is what is our challenge. This is our goal to make Pashtun society more tolerant liberal democratic open and creative. If infidels tolerate Muslim Pashtuns even bigots then why Pashtun should not tolerate non Muslims. Being Pashtun is not concomitant to being a Muslim. I know many many Pashtuns who are not Muslims . Millions who are not Islamists.
Because of this ignorance and intolerance Pashtun live in caves not in a civilized world. Taliban and Mullahs are their leaders not intellectuals ,scholars,scientists and politicians.

There's plenty of practicing mainstream Muslims which are Pashtun, very successful, clever and rich. Many many professionals and business men. To say you have to abandon being a Muslim (mainstream Islam) to succeed only shows your level of ignorance and brainwashed mindset. The afghan/Pashtun youth which have abandoned Islam are into drugs and all types of misbehaviour,, they are more like cavemen, they are your types of people with no honour, no boundary and no social limits, all you have is basic animalistic tendencies. The ones that go to madrasah and have been taught religious values usually end up being leading academics. But your not even a Muslim, you would know nothing about these things.

[Manzareh]

Also, i would argue with access to the internet and education more people are turning to Islam

[Khostai]

Parroting white Europeans values are not "new Fresh ideas". You had a chance with secularism by the PDPA which showed itself treasonous to its own people and collaborators with European invaders. You failed and thus not needed around.

Atheism and secular tought existed in Middles East and the rest of the world, in times when Europeans were a bunch of savages. I know you are brainwashed by the west to belive that all brown folks are fanatics and can not function without a relligion and never had secular people. But its oke, like one day you cnaged your view about stoning and taliban, hopfully one day you also come around about secularism. Step by step you are becoming more human and civilised.

And Islamist had a chance for over 1400 years to bring good Islamic goverment, but they could not, becuase it is not possible, like good communist state is not posible. And you Islamist had a chance in Afghanistan but you blew it up by coloborating with USA and Europeans and help them invade Afghanistan. And even now you beg them to say and help you out, lol.

[Khostai]

The only place Atheist and Agnostic show up is behind a computer screen. 99.9% of people from Khost will beat the **** out of you for even daring to represent the name Khostai. Whether Taliban based or not you have 0 relevance in Pashtun society. You are a nobody, your opinions mean nothing. A kafir therefore every pashtun household views you as a worthless swine, most likely you are an outcast from your own family also... its the truth, think about it.

Even your own prophet was an outcast, only outcast can bring change and shape the world. Sheeps like you will be forgoten, so just go on with your pathetic life and follow the rest like a brainless zombie.

[Badlun]

There's plenty of practicing mainstream Muslims which are Pashtun, very successful, clever and rich. Many many professionals and business men. To say you have to abandon being a Muslim (mainstream Islam) to succeed only shows your level of ignorance and brainwashed mindset. The afghan/Pashtun youth which have abandoned Islam are into drugs and all types of misbehaviour,, they are more like cavemen, they are your types of people with no honour, no boundary and no social limits, all you have is basic animalistic tendencies. The ones that go to madrasah and have been taught religious values usually end up being leading academics. But your not even a Muslim, you would know nothing about these things.

Religion is your private matter so it can enrich you spiritually and morally but the religion like Islamism is anti life and anti development. However I do not agree that those who study in Madrassahs can lead academics. I have studied for 3 years in a madrassah and know what they teach. Darse Nizamya is just sarf, nahwa, fiq which has nothing to do with modern world.

We are all animals but talking , social and logical. Our animal or biological needs like food, shelter, sex etc must be first realized then we can actualize our higher goals being a human being.

[Sarbani]

The only place Atheist and Agnostic show up is behind a computer screen. 99.9% of people from Khost will beat the **** out of you for even daring to represent the name Khostai. Whether Taliban based or not you have 0 relevance in Pashtun society. You are a nobody, your opinions mean nothing. A kafir therefore every pashtun household views you as a worthless swine, most likely you are an outcast from your own family also... its the truth, think about it.

That's the problem with an Islamic society. You get ostracized and beaten the crap out of for leaving Islam. That kind of behavior is really backwards and needs to go.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

Even your own prophet was an outcast, only outcast can bring change and shape the world. Sheeps like you will be forgoten, so just go on with your pathetic life and follow the rest like a brainless zombie.

but the difference is, he was outcast for the right reasons, you'd be outcast for the wrong ones.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

Atheism and secular tought existed in Middles East and the rest of the world, in times when Europeans were a bunch of savages. I know you are brainwashed by the west to belive that all brown folks are fanatics and can not function without a relligion and never had secular people. But its oke, like one day you cnaged your view about stoning and taliban, hopfully one day you also come around about secularism. Step by step you are becoming more human and civilised.

And Islamist had a chance for over 1400 years to bring good Islamic goverment, but they could not, becuase it is not possible, like good communist state is not posible. And you Islamist had a chance in Afghanistan but you blew it up by coloborating with USA and Europeans and help them invade Afghanistan. And even now you beg them to say and help you out, lol.

Let's just say we agree that "everything" existed in the Middle East and everywhere. The fact is they were not the normative values of the Middle East, which means they were not effective in these environments if it already existed. Which means

a) Your original statement that they're "new fresh ideas" has been proven false BY your own statement if you agree they always existed.

b.) This doesn't change that you actually HAD a chance with the PDPA, and we've seen what happened when secularists come by. So our exposure to secular ideology has already shown to be negative

c.) But Islam, we've actually had hundreds of years of positive results, it's only the last 30 that's been bad, with Taliban and such, but the rest of the hundreds of years. We had empires, we had military might, access to resources etc etc. Our value were guarded and so on.

None of that happened under Secular Ideology, So logically we'll go with something that's passed the historical litmus test.

But what's actually is that in your attempt to validate secularism, YOU JUST exposed yourself by accident, in YOUR first line ........You affiliate the idea of Middle Easterners and Religion with FANATICISM .......this is actually a Narrative Created by European Orientalists in their Colonial Campaigns .....portraying Muslims as backwards & barbaric ....which means you Unintentionally revealed that it's actually you that has been brainwashed by Europeans

Kind of ironic eh?

http://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/view/document/obo-9780195390155/obo-9780195390155-0058.xml

most Orientalist scholars held negative views of Islam until the middle of the 20th century. By 1973 the term “Orientalist” was abandoned by the International Congress of Orientalists, recognizing that specialty disciplines were more significant than the vague geographical notion of an “Orient.

[Khostai]

shut your slu.ty mouth lizard eating ****.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

You're upset because I called out the fact that you've exposed yourself as brainwashed by orientalist doctrine. This is exactly why secularism can't work in Muslim societies, it's too littered in European Imperialist Ideology.