The idea of a Pashtun neopagan religion and Pashtun mythology

[kanishka]

Where i leave Islam and covert to the ancient religion of Pashtuns back when they were Pagan. There's a big problem however!

What was our religion, who were our gods, what does Pashtun mythology say about how the Universe was made and how it will end. Did Pashtuns fall over and get amnesia about their pre-islamic past?

Pashtun mythlogy has nothing. Pakistani Punjabi people were historically Hindus until they became Muslim, therefore, their ethnic religion is Hinduism. Tajik people used to be Zoroastrian, but forget zoroastrianism, they have a whole section of Persian mythology. Hazaras we can say had the pagan religion of the ancient mongolians (like some sky god and earth mother), and we Mongols have information about their religion before they half of them became tibetan buddhists. Tibetans have a religion called Bon before they themselves became Buddhist. Nuristani people know pretty well about their nuristani mythology and their old beliefs, even when they were forced to become Muslim by the same man who was tricked to sign the durand line and lose 50% of Pashtun territory and, there after massacre lots of Hazaras.
Kalash people still practice their religion today.Same with burushos of Hunza, they still know. Arabs had their religion of Hubal and the 3 goddesses and same with Jews who had similar gods to Arabs and even mesopatamians. Turks know about Turkic paganism which was related to that of the Mongols.

What about Pashtuns. What do we have in our mythology. What do we say about how the universe was made, or how many folk tales we had etc. Pashtuns have nothing except that a Pashtun dude falls in love with a Pakhtana and then **** happening with feuds and mere coincidences, but nothing about dieties, demons, supernatural beings, supernatural places, magical spells, no thor, odin, zeus, gaia, uranus, all that , all that is wiped clean from the memory of Pashtuns.

[tripledouble]

Pakistanis have no ethnic religion cuz Pakistani is not ethnicity

Punjabi are just one of many ethnic groups and even they aren't considered a proper ethnicity, anybody living in punjab is punjabi, and while most were hindu many were also buddhist, but today in India, Sikhism is asscociatted as the religion of Punjabis there

Hazaras are not pure mongol, they mix with persian, so there religion can also be zoroasterism

[kanishka]

Pakistanis have no ethnic religion cuz Pakistani is not ethnicity

Punjabi are just one of many ethnic groups and even they aren't considered a proper ethnicity, anybody living in punjab is punjabi, and while most were hindu many were also buddhist, but today in India, Sikhism is asscociatted as the religion of Punjabis there

Hazaras are not pure mongol, they mix with persian, so there religion can also be zoroasterism

Most Punjabis come from Proto-Aryan tribes that migrated from cetral asia

1500 BC, Aryans crossed the Indus river, and these became the Indo-Aryans who then became Sindhis, Punjabis, Marathis and Konkanis, Hindi people whatever their name is , and Sinhalese. Sinhalese people were Aryans that sailed to Sri Lanka directly ...

the ones who stayed on the other side are Tajiks, Pashtuns, Nuristanis and Dardic people today. Kashmiris are a mix of indo-aryan and daric people.

Yes, there is mixing among Punjabis but most are just Aryan, Rajput or w/e you call it.... Indian Aryans which were split from the Aryans on the other side of the river...

and Hazaras can mix zoroastrianism with mongol faith, lol that's interesting

If half black half white peope had to choose, would they follow Voodoo and Scandinavian mythology mixed up?

[Toramana]

Pashtuns were Zoroastrians and pagans before converting to Islam. Zoroaster in was most likely a Pashtun or an related East Iranian. Avesta the language of Zoroastrian scripture has closest resemblance to Pashto. Hope that helps.

[kanishka]

Pashtuns were Zoroastrians and pagans before converting to Islam. Zoroaster in was most likely a Pashtun or an related East Iranian. Avesta the language of Zoroastrian scripture has closest resemblance to Pashto. Hope that helps.

That's what i am asking. If Pashtuns were Pagan, then what exactly did they believe and why is it totally gone among Pashtuns today. Plus, Zoroaster was more likely related to Pamiri people and Yaghnobi people today than with Pashtuns. They are eastern iranians too and they look pretty white....

Ossetians are Eastern iranians and they also have their mythology. Infact, Ossetian mythology is pre-zoroastrian, look it up, they even made a religion to revive Ossetian folk tradition.

Also note, Pashto has retroflex constants which is present in other Indo-Aryan languages Punjabi, Urdu, and Sindhi and Dardic languages. Theoretically, Pashtuns historically moved in and displaced quite a few Dardic peoples in older times where they aquired retroflex consonants. Other iranian languages are clean and lack those hard consants, balochi doesnt have it either even when brahui people are within balochis....

[kanishka]

This is a thread

http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?t=25111

in case you want to know about Pashtun mythology or folklore, and my idea of remaking and figuring out the "pagan" religion of the Pashtuns and if they were zoroastrian. Also, Pashtuns doen't celebrate Nowruz unless if influenced by Tajiks who want to makee Pashtuns follow Persian traditions. In Pakistan, no Pakhtun celebrates Nowruz while lots of Baloch people do. Pakhtuns are probably not Iranian but still Indo-European, and we can't figure out if they descended from scythians. They could be more like Kalash or Nuristanis, like in the middle of Iranian and Indo-Aryan but i don't know... complicated stuff

Zoroaster is more with Pamiris and Yaghnobi people, also know that Pamiris are sometimes called Tajiks too.........

[kanishka]

Pashtuns were Zoroastrians and pagans before converting to Islam. Zoroaster in was most likely a Pashtun or an related East Iranian. Avesta the language of Zoroastrian scripture has closest resemblance to Pashto. Hope that helps.

closest ressemblance with Pamiri languages and Yaghnobi...
and also toss in Ossetian

[Badlun]

Very interesting thread. I have heard words like Deo Toraban , kohe Qap, Bahramegor shehzada, xaperai, perai, adam khsn durkhanai, sher alam memonai, yasap khan sherbano, etc in Pashtun mythology and folklore.
Apart from this Pashunwali itself is a way of life and can replace religion. God is not necessary for a religion and Pashtun might have a godless religion like bhuddists.

[Kushan Saka]

Where i leave Islam and covert to the ancient religion of Pashtuns back when they were Pagan. There's a big problem however!

What was our religion, who were our gods, what does Pashtun mythology say about how the Universe was made and how it will end. Did Pashtuns fall over and get amnesia about their pre-islamic past?

Pashtun mythlogy has nothing. Pakistani Punjabi people were historically Hindus until they became Muslim, therefore, their ethnic religion is Hinduism. Tajik people used to be Zoroastrian, but forget zoroastrianism, they have a whole section of Persian mythology. Hazaras we can say had the pagan religion of the ancient mongolians (like some sky god and earth mother), and we Mongols have information about their religion before they half of them became tibetan buddhists. Tibetans have a religion called Bon before they themselves became Buddhist. Nuristani people know pretty well about their nuristani mythology and their old beliefs, even when they were forced to become Muslim by the same man who was tricked to sign the durand line and lose 50% of Pashtun territory and, there after massacre lots of Hazaras.
Kalash people still practice their religion today.Same with burushos of Hunza, they still know. Arabs had their religion of Hubal and the 3 goddesses and same with Jews who had similar gods to Arabs and even mesopatamians. Turks know about Turkic paganism which was related to that of the Mongols.

What about Pashtuns. What do we have in our mythology. What do we say about how the universe was made, or how many folk tales we had etc. Pashtuns have nothing except that a Pashtun dude falls in love with a Pakhtana and then **** happening with feuds and mere coincidences, but nothing about dieties, demons, supernatural beings, supernatural places, magical spells, no thor, odin, zeus, gaia, uranus, all that , all that is wiped clean from the memory of Pashtuns.

actually we know quite a lot about the pre-islamic religions of pashtuns. Ancient indo-iranian deities like Ahura Mazda, Verethagna, Mithra, Rudra and many other were worshipped in afghanistan and this is attested by coins, inscriptions and texts of this time.

Here is a list of deities worshipped in the kushan empire

Representation of entities from Greek mythology and Hellenistic syncretism are:

• Ηλιος (Helios), Ηφαηστος (Hephaistos), Σαληνη (Selene), Ανημος (Anemos). Further, the coins of Huvishka also portray the demi-god erakilo Heracles, and the Egyptian god sarapo Sarapis.

The Indic entities represented on coinage include:

• Βοδδο (boddo, Buddha)
• Μετραγο Βοδδο (metrago boddo, bodhisattava Maitreya)
• Mαασηνo (maaseno, Mahasena)
• Σκανδo koμαρo (skando komaro, Skanda Kumara)
• þακαμανο Βοδδο (shakamano boddho, Shakyamuni Buddha)

The Iranian entities depicted on coinage include:

• Αρδοχþο (ardoxsho, Ashi Vanghuhi)
• Aþαειχþo (ashaeixsho, Asha Vahishta)
• Αθþο (athsho, Atar)
• Φαρρο (pharro, Khwarenah)
• Λροοασπο (lrooaspa, Drvaspa)
• Μαναοβαγο, (manaobago, Vohu Manah)
• Μαο (mao, Mah)
• Μιθρο, Μιιρο, Μιορο, Μιυρο (mithro and variants, Mithra)
• Μοζδοοανο (mozdooano, Mazda *vana "Mazda the victorious?")
• Νανα, Ναναια, Ναναϸαο (variations of pan-Asiatic nana, Sogdian nny, in a Zoroastrian context Aredvi Sura Anahita)
• Οαδο (oado Vata)
• Oαxþo (oaxsho, "Oxus")
• Ooρoμoζδο (ooromozdo, Ahura Mazda)
• Οραλαγνο (orlagno, Verethragna)
• Τιερο (tiero, Tir)

Additionally:

• Οηϸο (oesho), long considered to represent Indic Shiva,[4] but more recently identified as Avestan Vayu conflated with Shiva.[5][6]
• Two copper coins of Huvishka bear a 'Ganesa' legend, but instead of depicting the typical theriomorphic figure of Ganesha, have a figure of an archer holding a full-length bow with string inwards and an arrow. This is typically a depiction of Rudra, but in the case of these two coins is generally assumed to represent Shiva.

There were many religions in afghanistan and buddhism and some indo-aryan polytheistic cults were quite widespread also. The Hepthalites who were very important for the ethnogenesis of pashtuns were described as worshippers of the sun (Mithra, zun) and the Heaven.

[Kushan Saka]

This is a thread

http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?t=25111

in case you want to know about Pashtun mythology or folklore, and my idea of remaking and figuring out the "pagan" religion of the Pashtuns and if they were zoroastrian. Also, Pashtuns doen't celebrate Nowruz unless if influenced by Tajiks who want to makee Pashtuns follow Persian traditions. In Pakistan, no Pakhtun celebrates Nowruz while lots of Baloch people do. Pakhtuns are probably not Iranian but still Indo-European, and we can't figure out if they descended from scythians. They could be more like Kalash or Nuristanis, like in the middle of Iranian and Indo-Aryan but i don't know... complicated stuff

Zoroaster is more with Pamiris and Yaghnobi people, also know that Pamiris are sometimes called Tajiks too.........

pashtuns are iranic but not western iranic like persians. This is a huge difference. Pashtuns were not zoroastrians in the strict sense and the cult of Mithra and other local eastern iranic, dardic and nuristani religions dominated afghanistan but they were heavily mixed with buddhism and vedic hinduism. Zoroastranism was the state religion of the sassanid empire and more important among persians but had some presence in afghanistan because of persian influences. Today zoroastranism is a broad term and used for many religions but modern zoroastranism like among parsis in india or iran was not prevelant among pashtuns. Pashtuns had rather a pre-zoroastranian eastern iranic religion (polytheism, sun cult, sky god, fire cult, horse cult, ...) mixed with zoroastranism, buddhism and vedism

Also note, Pashto has retroflex constants which is present in other Indo-Aryan languages Punjabi, Urdu, and Sindhi and Dardic languages. Theoretically, Pashtuns historically moved in and displaced quite a few Dardic peoples in older times where they aquired retroflex consonants. Other iranian languages are clean and lack those hard consants, balochi doesnt have it either even when brahui people are within balochis....

most eastern iranic language have also retroflex consonants like pashto. Even khotan saka (eastern iranic language of saka) in western china had retroflex consonants like pashto but you are right about the dardic and indo-aryan substrate in some areas.

[kanishka]

pashtuns are iranic but not western iranic like persians. This is a huge difference. Pashtuns were not zoroastrians in the strict sense and the cult of Mithra and other local eastern iranic, dardic and nuristani religions dominated afghanistan but they were heavily mixed with buddhism and vedic hinduism. Zoroastranism was the state religion of the sassanid empire and more important among persians but had some presence in afghanistan because of persian influences. Today zoroastranism is a broad term and used for many religions but modern zoroastranism like among parsis in india or iran was not prevelant among pashtuns. Pashtuns had rather a pre-zoroastranian eastern iranic religion (polytheism, sun cult, sky god, fire cult, horse cult, ...) mixed with zoroastranism, buddhism and vedism

most eastern iranic language have also retroflex consonants like pashto. Even khotan saka (eastern iranic language of saka) in western china had retroflex consonants like pashto but you are right about the dardic and indo-aryan substrate in some areas.

ionno, maybe west iranian langauges don't, it was some article...

[kanishka]

actually we know quite a lot about the pre-islamic religions of pashtuns. Ancient indo-iranian deities like Ahura Mazda, Verethagna, Mithra, Rudra and many other were worshipped in afghanistan and this is attested by coins, inscriptions and texts of this time.

Here is a list of deities worshipped in the kushan empire

Representation of entities from Greek mythology and Hellenistic syncretism are:

• Ηλιος (Helios), Ηφαηστος (Hephaistos), Σαληνη (Selene), Ανημος (Anemos). Further, the coins of Huvishka also portray the demi-god erakilo Heracles, and the Egyptian god sarapo Sarapis.

The Indic entities represented on coinage include:

• Βοδδο (boddo, Buddha)
• Μετραγο Βοδδο (metrago boddo, bodhisattava Maitreya)
• Mαασηνo (maaseno, Mahasena)
• Σκανδo koμαρo (skando komaro, Skanda Kumara)
• þακαμανο Βοδδο (shakamano boddho, Shakyamuni Buddha)

The Iranian entities depicted on coinage include:

• Αρδοχþο (ardoxsho, Ashi Vanghuhi)
• Aþαειχþo (ashaeixsho, Asha Vahishta)
• Αθþο (athsho, Atar)
• Φαρρο (pharro, Khwarenah)
• Λροοασπο (lrooaspa, Drvaspa)
• Μαναοβαγο, (manaobago, Vohu Manah)
• Μαο (mao, Mah)
• Μιθρο, Μιιρο, Μιορο, Μιυρο (mithro and variants, Mithra)
• Μοζδοοανο (mozdooano, Mazda *vana "Mazda the victorious?")
• Νανα, Ναναια, Ναναϸαο (variations of pan-Asiatic nana, Sogdian nny, in a Zoroastrian context Aredvi Sura Anahita)
• Οαδο (oado Vata)
• Oαxþo (oaxsho, "Oxus")
• Ooρoμoζδο (ooromozdo, Ahura Mazda)
• Οραλαγνο (orlagno, Verethragna)
• Τιερο (tiero, Tir)

Additionally:

• Οηϸο (oesho), long considered to represent Indic Shiva,[4] but more recently identified as Avestan Vayu conflated with Shiva.[5][6]
• Two copper coins of Huvishka bear a 'Ganesa' legend, but instead of depicting the typical theriomorphic figure of Ganesha, have a figure of an archer holding a full-length bow with string inwards and an arrow. This is typically a depiction of Rudra, but in the case of these two coins is generally assumed to represent Shiva.

There were many religions in afghanistan and buddhism and some indo-aryan polytheistic cults were quite widespread also. The Hepthalites who were very important for the ethnogenesis of pashtuns were described as worshippers of the sun (Mithra, zun) and the Heaven.

You think Pashtuns came from Kushans or Hephthalites?

They say that about Gujjars coming from Hephtalites (a large tribe among Pakistanis and North Indians, comparable to Ghilzais and Sarbans among PAshtuns....)and Jats coming from Scythians (i'm pretty sure everyone knows what a jat is....)

[Kushan Saka]

ionno, maybe west iranian langauges don't, it was some article...

i have read somewhere that retroflex consonants are rather of pre-indo-iranian origin and orginated from the older pre-indo-iranian languages of the pamir, hindukush and northwestern india(The pre-indoeuropean burusho of northern pakistan have it also). The indo-iranians adopted this from them when they settled there. The avestan language, which is the oldest iranic language found yet, had no retroflex consonants but it is very close to pashto and very different from western iranic languages which are all very semiticized.

[Kushan Saka]

You think Pashtuns came from Kushans or Hephthalites?

They say that about Gujjars coming from Hephtalites (a large tribe among Pakistanis and North Indians, comparable to Ghilzais and Sarbans among PAshtuns....)and Jats coming from Scythians (i'm pretty sure everyone knows what a jat is....)

Hephthalites are believed to be among the ancestors of modern-day Pashtuns and in particular of the Abdali Pashtun tribe.[35] According to the academic Yu. V. Gankovsky,

"The Pashtuns began as a union of largely East-Iranian tribes which became the initial ethnic stratum of the Pashtun ethnogenesis, dates from the middle of the first millennium CE and is connected with the dissolution of the Epthalite (White Huns) confederacy. [...] Of the contribution of the Epthalites (White Huns) to the ethnogenesis of the Pashtuns we find evidence in the ethnonym of the largest of the Pashtun tribe unions, the Abdali (Durrani after 1747) associated with the ethnic name of the Epthalites — Abdal. The Siah-posh, the Kafirs (Nuristanis) of the Hindu Kush, called all Pashtuns by a general name of Abdal still at the beginning of the 19th century."[36]

Jatts have no linguistic, cultural or genetic connection to eastern iranic scythians. The scythians and hepthalites in india were a tiny minority and had almost no genetic impact in india like the brits, afghans and turks later. Many scythian/saka tribes (kushan, saka, hepthalites, yuezhi, scythians, iranic huns,...) migrated to afghanistan/northern pakistan and settled there. Pashto is actually very close to the saka language of central asia. Pashtuns were in the past and are even today often nomads just like the scythians. Also pashtuns are dominated by the same y-dna haplogroup( R1a1a) like ancient scythians/saka and look still quite similar to them. But other indo-iranian tribes also influenced the ethnogenesis of pashtuns to a large extent

[Karachi]

I would think pashtuns were probably similar to the (kalash) religion and people. imagine if there was no extremism and forced mass conversions to Islam, how peaceful the region would be, just like the kalash. They are perfect relic example of how the region was once. The Pashtun areas were known for their music, arts, culture etc.. in those days

Look at this artistic wonder from almost 2000 years back, this is from eastern afghanistan, you can see how people lived back then