Is ISIS's Islamic state a real Islamic state?

[Badlun]

[MENTION=1772]BarakzaiAbdali[/MENTION]

Dr Saib Your last two posts are purely religious rhetoric. Once you talk about divine plans, miracles, mission of the prophet etc, it is not a scholarly intellectual discussion but just emotional outburst with religious zest and expression of faith not reason.

This is the usual argument of a Mullah that Quran says, this and Hadith says that. This is argument on authority not a valid argument. For Muslims Quran is truth but for non Muslims Quran is just a book of fairy tales. How a non Muslim will be convinced with fairy tales while for a Muslim the same words is divine.

Also you a very flopped and lopsided way to argue that this happened in US so why not in Islamdom? Any thing bad happened or happening in US does not justify what bad thing happened or happening in your Islamdom. bad is bad whether in US or in a Muslim country.

Let us simply admit that IS is a pure Islamic or at least Islamist state and we must condemn it because religion is for mosque not for parliament.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

@BarakzaiAbdali

Dr Saib Your last two posts are purely religious rhetoric.

Incorrect.... rather it is a response well honed to answer your prior 125,000 Prophets discussion based on militant secularist polemic.

Once you talk about divine plans, miracles, mission of the prophet etc, it is not a scholarly intellectual discussion but just emotional outburst with religious zest and expression of faith not reason.

Thats a blatantly false assessment. A spirited defense of the Prophet's military and political decisions alongside of furbishing the contributions made by Abu Sufyan's heirs and own placement in Islamic history was cited. You simply chose to ignore it since it doesnt fit with militant secularist dogma.

This is the usual argument of a Mullah that Quran says, this and Hadith says that. This is argument on authority not a valid argument.

That has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. The discussion at hand centers around the world in which Muhammad lived and the challenges surrounding securing Arabia and what an insecure or conquered Arabia might have meant to the nascent faith. Practical evidence of the fate of Arabia can be seen from the other regions taken by various Holy Roman emperors. Additionally, Bernard Lewis's arguments on how all empires rendered taxation and how jizyah for many in the Islamic empire was merely one tax replaced with another

For Muslims Quran is truth but for non Muslims Quran is just a book of fairy tales. How a non Muslim will be convinced with fairy tales while for a Muslim the same words is divine.

That is irrelevent to the argument. Muhammad's consideration for the establishment of his religion need not fit your paradigm, rather in his mind it needed to fit the paradigm of the divinely revealed word. We referred to the fact that all the empires leveid a tax or a tribute of some form and that seems to have irked you since you lived under the false assumption that these co-existant empires of the Romans and the Persians simply doted on their peoples without demanding any economic tribute. Additionally, Khalid Bin Walid's letters and Omar's preserved dictations regarding the mannerisms and uses of jizya belie your argument regarding its utilization and execution.

Also you a very flopped and lopsided way to argue that this happened in US so why not in Islamdom? Any thing bad happened or happening in US does not justify what bad thing happened or happening in your Islamdom. bad is bad whether in US or in a Muslim country.

Once again, incorrect reasoning... and truly more in line with militant secularist polemic. The whole point is that all empires have some form of taxation and that even the controversial income tax in the US is used for many means that common denizens disagree with. It is for this very reason that the Libertarian party exists... as their view is that taxation and large government are commensurate. Therefore, I don't think the label "good" or "bad" is relevent.

Let us simply admit that IS is a pure Islamic or at least Islamist state and we must condemn it because religion is for mosque not for parliament.

Incorrect... let us simply admit that militant secularism is the root cause of many problems in the Muslim world. Thankfully the Supreme Court in the US dealt the militant secularists a harsh blow recently setting their incursions on US territory back pretty far. As noted, the locals and the Islamic peoples have the dignity and right to decide where Mosque falls in with laws and what not - not militant secularists

x

[Herat]

@Karachi

What is a "real Islamic state" Europe, America? or should the lord continue the light up the skies with miracles?
@Herat

any comments about your Kurdish/Yezidi beghairots crying wolf to Americans to help them? because you, me, and the world knows Irbil would have fell last week.

The US indirectly armed your jihadist fanatics with heavy weapons with the farcical "Iraqi army" in a failed multi-ethnic state, considering that they won't arm the Kurds, the air-strikes were mainly to undo the retarded mistake of arming one ethnic/religious group in another ethnic/religious groups territory. And besides, I don't support the air-strikes, Id prefer it if the US would simply sell the Kurds heavy-weapons in exchange for the suspended oil tanks but hey, they don't want to do that.

In retrospect, the Yezidi flight, the tragedy notwithstanding, is for the best: those Kurds don't belong in the Arab craphole and their migration to their rightful place in Kurdistan is good for them in the long-run too. Now if we could just deport every single Arab immigrant and refugee in Kurdistan, and declare Kurdish independence, then your jihadist goons can have all the blood-bath fun with other Arabs they want. Ive told you before, I don't give a damn about the Arabs, Shiite or otherwise; the longer the civil wars last in the Arab world, the better. I just want the Kurds out of that Arab hellhole once and for all.

[کیش]

The US indirectly armed your jihadist fanatics with heavy weapons with the farcical "Iraqi army" in a failed multi-ethnic state, considering that they won't arm the Kurds, the air-strikes were mainly to undo the retarded mistake of arming one ethnic/religious group in another ethnic/religious groups territory. And besides, I don't support the air-strikes, Id prefer it if the US would simply sell the Kurds heavy-weapons in exchange for the suspended oil tanks but hey, they don't want to do that.

In retrospect, the Yezidi flight, the tragedy notwithstanding, is for the best: those Kurds don't belong in the Arab craphole and their migration to their rightful place in Kurdistan is good for them in the long-run too. Now if we could just deport every single Arab immigrant and refugee in Kurdistan, and declare Kurdish independence, then your jihadist goons can have all the blood-bath fun with other Arabs they want. Ive told you before, I don't give a damn about the Arabs, Shiite or otherwise; the longer the civil wars last in the Arab world, the better. I just want the Kurds out of that Arab hellhole once and for all.

The Air strikes just proofed that the Peshmerga aren't any near the level of the IS in the battlefield. Their knowledge of "the art of war" was way exaggerated, and they're begairotness xposed by sending their women to the battlefield to get slaughtered.

Thanks for your response. Like i said before, i respect your opinions because they are good and reasonable. But there is no "Bloodbath" by IS against Arabs, because the majority support them. There is no Civil war really, it's the Iranian and Lebanses proxies starting trouble against the Sunni population.

But, I don't respect an independent Kurdistan that is solely from our country (USA) air power. Kurdistan will fall sooner or later and will make a beautiful province for the Islamic State.

As a general for the Islamic State I would wait for another offensive against the begairot Kurds until America slows down their airstikes on Northern Iraq. I would focus on taken control full of control of Raqqa first, and start the offensive against FSA/Nusra/SAA in Aleppo. Iraq is too congested even though IS is still on the offensive in Salaluddin province.

[gadoonwal]

ISIS American tools.

[Herat]

The Air strikes just proofed that the Peshmerga aren't any near the level of the IS in the battlefield. Their knowledge of "the art of war" was way exaggerated, and they're begairotness xposed by sending their women to the battlefield to get slaughtered.

Thanks for your response. Like i said before, i respect your opinions because they are good and reasonable. But there is no "Bloodbath" by IS against Arabs, because the majority support them. There is no Civil war really, it's the Iranian and Lebanses proxies starting trouble against the Sunni population.

But, I don't respect an independent Kurdistan that is solely from our country (USA) air power. Kurdistan will fall sooner or later and will make a beautiful province for the Islamic State.

As a general for the Islamic State I would wait for another offensive against the begairot Kurds until America slows down their airstikes on Northern Iraq. I would focus on taken control full of control of Raqqa first, and start the offensive against FSA/Nusra/SAA in Aleppo. Iraq is too congested even though IS is still on the offensive in Salaluddin province.

Hey no problem my jihadist friend and you have a point, the Peshmerga generation that fought against Saddam is gone, those guys who fled are noobs but check out the dudes who beat your jihadist fanatics in Syria.

https://news.vice.com/article/meet-the-pkk-terrorists-battling-the-islamic-state-on-the-frontlines-of-iraq

By the way, yes there hopefully will be a blood-bath, Sunni Arab vs Shiite Arab is what I mean. Here is the thing: an objective viewer looking on Syria/Iraq might see Alawites, Shiite, Sunnis and Kurds etc. You, of course, will only see the true followers of Mohammed (ISIS) and infidels. But you know what I see? Arabs and Kurds. In Syria, I see Arabs killing Arabs and in Iraq, I see Arabs killing Arabs but also potentially Arabs killing Kurds. After the Kurds secede, when I look on Iraq, you know what my vision will detect? Just Arabs killing Arabs, see as far as my "give a ****.s" radar goes, it makes absolutely no distinction between Sunni and Shiite Arabs.

[Shah-i-Kot]

^You are far too emotional for anything you write to be taken seriously. In regards to your discussion on Arabs, Shiite Arabs are seen by Iran and Shiites themselves as an extension of the Shiite-Persian power structure which is headed by either Khamenei or Sistani- both of whom are Iranian.

This is the reason, Iranian IRGC troops are operating in Syria and Iraq alongside their fellow Shiites- to wage a war against Sunni insurgents in Iraq and Syria. Its also the reason that Hazaras have gone to Syria to wage war on behalf of Assad. Iran is not so concerned on a religious basis about Iraq, but more so because they have laid an Iran-Iraq oil pipeline that they hope can extend to Syria and then Lebanon. Economics is what is driving them to support a dictator who commits mass murder of Sunni Syrians.

[کیش]

Hey no problem my jihadist friend and you have a point, the Peshmerga generation that fought against Saddam is gone, those guys who fled are noobs but check out the dudes who beat your jihadist fanatics in Syria.

https://news.vice.com/article/meet-the-pkk-terrorists-battling-the-islamic-state-on-the-frontlines-of-iraq

By the way, yes there hopefully will be a blood-bath, Sunni Arab vs Shiite Arab is what I mean. Here is the thing: an objective viewer looking on Syria/Iraq might see Alawites, Shiite, Sunnis and Kurds etc. You, of course, will only see the true followers of Mohammed (ISIS) and infidels. But you know what I see? Arabs and Kurds. In Syria, I see Arabs killing Arabs and in Iraq, I see Arabs killing Arabs but also potentially Arabs killing Kurds. After the Kurds secede, when I look on Iraq, you know what my vision will detect? Just Arabs killing Arabs, see as far as my "give a ****.s" radar goes, it makes absolutely no distinction between Sunni and Shiite Arabs.

How will the Kurds succeed? They have become hopelessly desperate by sending their women to fight. And now IS is posting dozens of pictures on Twitter of dead female Peshmergha fighters in Iraq as proof they the only thing holding them back from Arbil is our (USA) air force.

How can Kurds and the Iraqi army win? The objective viewer really has no opinion on the matter because they don't know anything to even bat an expression that worthwhile.

[Herat]

How will the Kurds succeed? They have become hopelessly desperate by sending their women to fight. And now IS is posting dozens of pictures on Twitter of dead female Peshmergha fighters in Iraq as proof they the only thing holding them back from Arbil is our (USA) air force.

How can Kurds and the Iraqi army win? The objective viewer really has no opinion on the matter because they don't know anything to even bat an expression that worthwhile.

Have you not been paying attention or is your low genotypic IQ once again rendering this discussion hopeless? Those air-strikes were hitting US artillery and mortar positions courtesy of the US arming shiite gangsters (that is what the farcical Iraqi army is) in Sunni Iraq; the peshmerga were fighting with old Russian Aks. By contrast, the game was on an even playing field in Syria (I can't even be bothered to post the link anymore considering that you ignored it for how many times Ive lost count now) and we saw how well your goons fared there. The US armed the group, it can now either disarm it (airstrikes) or arm the Kurds to even the playing field. They've opted for the former.

[Herat]

By the way folks, Foley's halal-er has been identified as a "gangsta" rapper jihadist.

http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/2510648/rapper-identified-as-james-foleys-executioner-reports/?cs=12

Any of you folks wanna guess at the "gangsta" mans innate/genotypic IQ, that is, the component of his intelligence (aka cognitive ability) that can be ascribed to the genes alone? My money is on the borderline mentally retarded range (< 85); a little known fact: people with low genotypic IQs are not necessarily clinically retarded. See there are clinically retarded patients (e.g. brain-damaged) and then there are perfectly normal -at least in the social sense- people who score very low on tests of cognitive ability, perform poorly academically etc (actually low IQ of that form correlates with a host of other things, such as the likelihood of ever committing a crime and psychopathic personality). Just take a look at our jihadist users here, the Kaish guy and that Zubr-zubr guy, perfectly social but palpably sub-standard in cognitive ability, as can be readily inferred from their idiolects.

[25tajik75pashtun]

By the way folks, Foley's halal-er has been identified as a "gangsta" rapper jihadist.

http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/2510648/rapper-identified-as-james-foleys-executioner-reports/?cs=12

Any of you folks wanna guess at the "gangsta" mans innate/genotypic IQ, that is, the component of his intelligence (aka cognitive ability) that can be ascribed to the genes alone? My money is on the borderline mentally retarded range (< 85); a little known fact: people with low genotypic IQs are not necessarily clinically retarded. See there are clinically retarded patients (e.g. brain-damaged) and then there are perfectly normal -at least in the social sense- people who score very low on tests of cognitive ability, perform poorly academically etc (actually low IQ of that form correlates with a host of other things, such as the likelihood of ever committing a crime and psychopathic personality). Just take a look at our jihadist users here, the Kaish guy and that Zubr-zubr guy, perfectly social but palpably sub-standard in cognitive ability, as can be readily inferred from their idiolects.

He spat some good rhymes though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbEkMWv8Rn0

[کیش]

[MENTION=17960]Herat[/MENTION]

Thoughts on the fall of Taqaba Air Base? They have looted a copious amount of munitions, artillery, and anti aircraft rockets.

I said a thousand times that you calling me "idiotic" holds no weight relative to my alma maters.